Which support units should I take?

[diabloelmo]

I'm thinking about getting back into 40k after a long break, and I'm looking at CSM as the army to play.

 

So far on paper, I've worked out the core of my army to be:

2x 10 CSM w/ 2 plas, pweap, IoCG, rhino

2x 10 CSM w/ 2 melta, pfist, IoCG, rhino

 

Considering that fluffwise this army will be a chapter that has recently turned renegade, I'm trying to keep mutations and heavily warp-saturated units (such as oblits and possessed) out of the list.

 

What HQ/support units does the B&C recommend for me?

[Zeller]

Havocs to pop AV 10-12

10 CSM w/ 4 AC

or

10 CSM w/ 4 ML

 

Or simply 2-3 predators with autocannon and lascannon sponsons. That would probably be the best option if you're looking to stay mechanized.

 

HQs are a bit tough. Unless you have another squad of marines in a transport the HQ will either walk, be on a steed, or have a jump pack/bike. For a mechanized list I'd take a jump pack for mobility, the +1 bonus for CCW and BP on the HQ, and you're small enough to follow closely behind a rhino for cover. Perhaps a simple HQ with lightning clawn and bolt pistol. I'm not particularly sure since I take a slogger HQ for a slogger swarm of marines.

[diabloelmo]

For a mechanized list I'd take a jump pack for mobility, the +1 bonus for CCW and BP on the HQ, and you're small enough to follow closely behind a rhino for cover. Perhaps a simple HQ with lightning clawn and bolt pistol.

 

Yeah, I was eying the jump pack lord mini, would it be a good idea to dump him in a small squad of raptors?

[Seahawk]

Probably not. Every unit in the Chaos army is an equivalent to an assault squad, so Raptors really aren't necessary or efficient in my opinion.

 

For an HQ you could use Huron, as he can take the place of a squad member in a CSM rhino. His heavy flamer is better than a standard flamer, and he provides a variety of utility with the fist and axe. Otherwise, a standard lord with whatever could work too.

 

Support-wise, I'd suggest the same as Zeller (Havocs and Predators). I use both frequently to good effect as well.

[diabloelmo]

Raptors really aren't necessary or efficient in my opinion.

 

Not even as Lord/champion delivery system?

[the jeske]

yes . because A lord are a not optimal choice to begin with B if someone wants to run them there is a way to fit them in to a rhino , by taking cult units C raptors dont do anything better then a unit of csm , but a lot worse with the point difference not being in the favor of raptors [both if you would want to run them with lord or without lord] .

[Zhukov]

Auto/Lass Predators + winged Deamon Princes.

[diabloelmo]

Auto/Lass Predators + winged Deamon Princes.

 

No Daemon Princes in this list, remember it is representing a force only recently turned renegade. As such - no Daemon Princes, no Obliterators, no Possessed, no Cult troops, no Defilers :P

 

I'm aware that this is severely damaging the effectiveness of the army, but hey, theme is king for me.

[Panda_]

Auto/Lass Predators + winged Deamon Princes.

 

No Daemon Princes in this list, remember it is representing a force only recently turned renegade. As such - no Daemon Princes, no Obliterators, no Possessed, no Cult troops, no Defilers :(

 

I'm aware that this is severely damaging the effectiveness of the army, but hey, theme is king for me.

So you have little choices here.

 

I'm using the same stuff for my army. Except that I image they are Night Lords. In fact, your trouble come mostly from the HQ. The prince is the only strong-viable option. Lord and Sorceror fills a "Fluff" niche.

 

I'd favor Jetpackers (or even Wings if you allow yourself that) with a cheap retenue of Raptors. With 2 specials, you get a rather cheap retinue. Yes, those CSM are going to be point/efficiency better but they cost 250 points as they need 10 botdies. Raptors can stay with 5 bodies and cost only 100-150 points.

 

If you go for Sorcerer, that should be Warptime / Jetpack (wings). The lord is more a debatte, dual lightning claw or Demon Weapon.

[diabloelmo]

Been no mention of terminator armour here anywhere, do they really suck that badly compared to their loyalist counterparts?

[Zhukov]

Yes, because our Land Raider sucks; our CC-termies therefore too (little bit lacking themselves too) and we cant do anything on Foot good. So that means your Termie Lord cant be put somewhere in an effective way.

 

So no Deamon Princes either hmm. Well then I would roll with 1 Chaos Lord with Wings (if you accept those). Loadout depends on the rest of your list but something along the lines of a Combi-melta + a Deamon Weapon (no Khorne) or Lightning Claws (with Khorne) is allright. If you dont want wings either; run with Khârne, he's the best Foot Lord you can get for sure. (extremely high damage output for his cost)

 

Other option is a Lash Sorcerer; which is still somewhat usefull in every list.

 

Problem with both choices here is that your running only CSM units, so you wont have space left in your rhino... No cult troops either? Then... a Raptor retinue I guess, because a Lord/Sorcerer not hiding in a squad is no option tbh.

[diabloelmo]

Seems the general consensus is 'lords suck, take a DP'.

 

I suppose I can tweak my background a touch in order to take one, which only leaves a few points to fill up.

 

So far, I've got:

DP w/ wings & warptime

2x 10 CSM w/ fist, 2 melta, IoCG, rhino

2x 10 CSM w/ pweap, 2 plas, IoCG, rhino

2x auto/las preds

 

Any tweaks anyone can see that need making?

[Spacefrisian]

What about Obliterators, you could use Techmarine models with the weapons listed in the obl. entry so it would still be a recently turned traitor army.

 

As for troops you could always switch 1 of the 10 men around for 9 berserkers modelled as assaultmarines on foot, this way you can fit in a Lord on foot with them in the Rhino. And it still fits in with the recently turned traitor theme.

[techmarine Azuris]

lords arent that bad, my lc mok lord has outperformed my warptime prince many many times (usually gets killed turn 1 or 2) i run lord with zerkers usually

 

and Khârn yh is amazing...

[Agemo]

If you decide to stick with the lord/sorc, and your ok with wings (seems like a nice gift for turning your troops), remember that a lord or sorc with wings (only wings, not jetpack) is allowed to ride in a transport (its in the FAQ for CSM).

 

This means you'll lose a special if you put him with normal CSM, but if you can work a fluffy reason for cult troops (of any kind), you can still have a flying lord/sorc and a transport for him. Its not the best, but its fun to jump out, leave your unit and fly 12'' way over there and assault a squishy unit with your weapon of choice ( a Khorne daemon weapon if you're feeling froggy)

 

All those 'good marines' who were not going to turn but would of prevented/severely hampered your traitors escape? BOOM, warp storm (or something) courtesy of your God of choice, and now their raving madmen who desire only to shed blood (Khorne) or their minds have reduced to nothing (err, dust) and they're bodies writhe with Warp energy (Thousand Sons)