Can you use PoTMS to searchlight a target?

[Master Of Malfeasance X]

Can I blaze away with my LRC at the sternguard squad that just came in and then spotlight a slightly more distant rhino using PoTMS?

 

Searchlights behave like weapons, but are they actually weapons?

 

In the end, it didn't matter as my searchlight failed to see the target.

 

For that matter, if you use a searchlight to find a target and don't see it, does the crew turn the light off, or is the searching vehicle still lit up?

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

No. You don't make a shooting attack using the vehicle's BS with a searchlight. PotMS has nothing to do with how far you can see.

[chenley]

A search light lets you "see" a single target per vehicle per turn, in games where night fighting rules are used, and any unit can shoot at any target that the search light shines upon.

 

example:

 

I have 2 land raiders both with search lights, a devastor squad, and 2 tactical squads. Night fighting rules are in effect. Fighting lets say chaos marines. They have 2 Chaos marine squads, a rhino, and a dreadnought.

 

It' the start of my shooting phase. Before I roll to shoot, I decide land raider "A" will point it's search light at the rhino, and land raider "B" will point it's search light at the dreadnought. Line of sight is need with both and Land raider "A" can not see the dreadnought but can see the rhino, and "B" can see the dreadnought but not the rhino. I need to roll once of each land raider for how far it can see using the night fighting rules, they both can see their targets, and now all units can shoot at said targets.

 

I decide to shoot the devastators at the dreadnought, and the tactical squad at the rhino, before shooting the land raiders. Not needing to roll to see how far they squads can see in the dark , because the dread and rhino are all lighted up like a x-mas tree, the devastators destroy the dread, but the tactical doesn't destroy the rhino. So, Land Raider "A" shoots at the Rhino, and doesn't need to use night fight rules to see it. But because Land Raider "B" now has no lighted up target, it has to roll for night fighting sight distance on one of the Chaos marine squads.

 

The downside is that his units can see my land raiders with out needing to roll for night fighting.

 

That's how a search light is supposed to work.

 

I am sorry if this sounds 1) mean, or 2) like I am trying to teach a 2 year old, but I can not put this a way any less complicated.

 

And the Current Codex Space Wolves, Imperial Guard, Chaos Marines, and Space Marines all say the same thing, (Dark Angels, and Blood Angels must as well). Vehicle with search light rolls, to see if can see target that player wants to be search lighted, if can see all other units shooting at lighted target gets shoot at as normal. But Vehicle using search light can be targeted by opponent without having to roll for night fight sight distance.

 

Reason for edit: :cuss emoticons

[Dark Dajin]

example:

 

Nice explenation, however it doesn's exactly answer the question which is:

 

No, PotMS does not allow you to use an extra searchlight.

[ShinyRhino]

The example isn't quite correct. Searchlights are used alongside the shooting of a unit. You pick a target for the tank's shooting, declare the use of the light, then roll Night Sight distance. If the targeted unit is inside the vision range, it is now spotlit. Resolve the shooting from the tank on the target.

All further shooting at the target can now ignore the Night Fight rules for the remainder of your player turn, and all enemy shooting at the source of the Searchlight will ignore Night Fight for the duration of the enemy's player turn.

[Seahawk]

Tacking this on here: Can a normal vehicle (rhino for instance) move at cruising speed and still searchlight something?

[Dan VK]

The example isn't quite correct. Searchlights are used alongside the shooting of a unit. You pick a target for the tank's shooting, declare the use of the light, then roll Night Sight distance. If the targeted unit is inside the vision range, it is now spotlit. Resolve the shooting from the tank on the target.

All further shooting at the target can now ignore the Night Fight rules for the remainder of your player turn, and all enemy shooting at the source of the Searchlight will ignore Night Fight for the duration of the enemy's player turn.

:yes:

 

To address Master of Malfeasance X's question, though:

 

Searchlights are used where the night fighting rule is in effect. If a vehicle has a searchlight it must still use the night fighting rules to pick a target but, having acquired a target, will illuminate it with the searchlight. For the rest of the Shooting phase, any other unit that fires at the illuminated unit does not use the night fighting special rule. Codex: Space Marines page 103

 

Power of the Machine Spirit allows the vehicle to fire an additional weapon at a separate target. I cannot find anything in the BRB or C:SM that would disallow the use of a searchlight on two separate shooting attacks and therefore two separate units. In other words, you cannot illuminate an extra target with PotMS after the vehicle has fired all of its weapons, but you can fire one weapon at one unit and fire a separate weapon using PotMS at a second unit and illuminate them both. It goes against common sense because there is only one searchlight, but I do not see anything wrong with it by RAW. Please tell me I missed something, because it sounds ridiculous. :)

 

Tacking this on here: Can a normal vehicle (rhino for instance) move at cruising speed and still searchlight something?

If the vehicle can fire a weapon the vehicle can use a searchlight. A normal vehicle could not (such as a C:SM Rhino), but a Fast vehicle could (such as C:BA Rhino). The Night Fighting and Searchlight rules require target selection before anything happens.

 

 

[EDIT: Added clarity (hopefully)]

[chenley]

I hate acronyms.

 

I guess I read the question wrong.

[Ming]

I'm with Shiny.

 

To summarize with a better example:

 

A Landraider has POTM, and it is night.

 

The player controlling the landraider declares he will (going back to the original post) fire his TLHB and left TLLC sponson (and pintle MM or SB if he has one) at the nearby sternguard, and the second TLLC sponson with Searchlight at the more distant Rhino. POTMS allows a landraider to fire on up to 2 different targets. However - you must declare what is firing at what before ANY dice are rolled.

 

He would have to roll to see how far the VEHICLE can see. (This is the gray area - not rolling separate site distance for each target - remember the spotlight gives no bonus on how far you can see, the real bonus it allowing other friendly units to see the target in the dark w/o having to roll for it).

 

If the 2D6 x 3 distance rolled is good enough to see both targets, then both targets can be fired at. The rhino, targeted by the searchlight, is now spotted for all other friendly units that firing phase. Then apply the other aspect of the ruling - the landraider spotlight makes it possible for enemy units to fire on the landraider without rolling to see it first. It works both was for the Imperium...

 

If the distance rolled to see is too short for reaching either declared target, any shots applied to that target do not occur - if the distance is too short for both, no weapons can be fired at all.

 

When I'm fighting a turn (or game) in the dark, I start trying to roll sight distance and shooting with vehicles I can afford to risk first to hit a key enemy target. Once a key target is lit up, I then hit it with anything that can shoot it in order till destroyed, then choose the next vehicle with spotlight to try to see and hit the next target.

 

[bTW - The only other gray area as you may know (and became very long threads of discussion) is using a seachlighted weapon platform to "see" units that are out of weapons range - cheesy, but likely doable - for example a rhino w PMSB rolling to spot a unit more than 24 inches away....regardless, a spotlight can only see up to 36 inches in range, and the negative is that the enemy can now see you....]