Why did Fabius Bile leave the Emperor's Children?

[randian]

I read some fluff that implied he betrayed them somehow, but didn't say how, nor did it say why he didn't devolve into Slannesh worship like the rest of the EC did.

[Chengar Qordath]

As I recall, Bile mostly left behind the Emperor's Children because being a free agent gave him more opportunities to experiment in whatever manner he pleased. I don't recall any incidents of him outright betraying the Emperor's Children aside from his initial departure (in the middle of the Siege of Terra), though given his freelancing there's a very good chance that he (or at least his creations) have fought against his original legion at some point.

[Quantum]

He's also responsible for changing the the Emperor's Children's biochemistry so that they their pleasure senses react more strongly to external stimuli.

 

It probably doesn't count as outright betrayal, but if you want to change a legion from disciplined warriors into a band of pleasure seeking hedonists, that's probably a good way to do it.

[A D-B]

I read some fluff that implied he betrayed them somehow, but didn't say how, nor did it say why he didn't devolve into Slannesh worship like the rest of the EC did.

 

If you look at the Chaos Marine characters, they're a microcosm for the way the Chaos Legions are envisioned by GW. As in, the Legions themselves don't really exist the way they used to. They're broken up into warbands and massive raiding armies comprised of warriors from all kinds of Legion and Renegade Chapter forces, many of whom focus more on their gods and personal power than their old allegiances. Obviously, plenty of warbands will still be mono-Legion, but most supposedly aren't.

 

Now, on the tabletop and in the hobby, that's not a particularly popular approach, despite it being the way GW have emphasised Chaos Space Marines for a long time. Ultimately, people like factions because it gives a sense of history, a sense of allegiance, it often comes with specific themes and rules, and it looks great on the table. It's an identity. In the hobby, it's something that survived a great deal better than it's supposed to have survived in the infinite centuries of war within a literal hell dimension. Even when writing novels about Chaos Marines, it's wise to stick to Legions, because that's what's interesting. After Slaves to Darkness, the lore has catalogued the degeneration and degredation of the Legions, noting them more in a historical context than a "These are your current armies" sense. They still existed, but as shattered, disorganised things - which is what makes the Black Legion so dangerous and powerful - they break that rule. Edition 3.5 with the IA articles backtracked and shattered what little traction that concept was gathering, though. And, like we can all see anyway, the "mixed armies" theme is just not something that's very popular with most Chaos players.

 

But the Chaos Marine special characters are a solid example of what GW intended for Chaos Marines: Fabius Bile has left his Legion behind and works for anyone he chooses; Abaddon commands an unstoppable mongrel Legion (much in the popularised version of Genghis Khan) that absorbs lesser warbands; Khârn shattered his Legion into warbands that go wherever they will and fight with whomever they like; Ahriman was exiled from the Thousand Sons, and is off across the galaxy doing his own thing; Lucius the Eternal is a creature utterly devoted to Slaanesh, a semi-avatar of that god, with his background information entirely given over to his own whims, power and respect for his patron god, with very little mention of his Legion; and Typhus follows the same lines, only in worship of Nurgle. The last two are ostensibly still members of what remains of their Legions, but it's a distant focus in their lives and backgrounds.

 

Now, I'm not saying I agree with it as a popular viewpoint ('cuz it's not), but it's pretty clear this is what's on the cards.

 

tl;dr -- Fabius Bile left the Emperor's Children because most Chaos Marines have little allegiance to their old Legions anymore - he's an example of Chaos Marines focusing more on their own ambitions, power and goals.

[Badaboom]

Bile was never interested in Slaanesh or Chaos itself, it was all about science and experimentation (in a twisted sense, he admired the work of the Emperor and wished to emulate the Astartes and Primarch projects); he did what he was asked for in his Legion only as long as it allowed him to test his abilities and knowledge and, when his fellow brothers fully turned into pleasure-seekers, he abandoned them with no remorse. There´s no such thing as a "brother" for Fabius Bile.

 

I always thought about him as a 40K version of Josef Mengele: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele

[Priest33]

Hrm I thought Bile was the one responsible for attempting to clone Horus and thus causing the Emp Children legion to be "destroyed" by the other chaos legions and he was then exiled rather a lot like Ahriman?

[Dosjetka]

Hrm I thought Bile was the one responsible for attempting to clone Horus and thus causing the Emp Children legion to be "destroyed" by the other chaos legions and he was then exiled rather a lot like Ahriman?

I read that too somewhere, can't recall where though.

 

Ludovic

[HandOfDorn]

Fabius Bile was allegedly based upon the Angel of Death, although i'm sure GW would deny these Nazi related allegations :)

 

And in answer to his betrayal, i'm sure some fluff once commented ''the betrayer betrayed a second time'' - in relation to his departure of his legion. Concerning his cloning, he did actually manage to clone Horus, but i think Abbadon destroyed the clone, and he has also obviously cloned himself numerous times, but the most exciting clone has to be his project on cloning the Emperor! We'll see what future fluff heralds on this one.

[A D-B]

Concerning his cloning, he did actually manage to clone Horus, but i think Abbadon destroyed the clone.

 

He did indeed...

[randian]

Concerning his cloning, he did actually manage to clone Horus, but i think Abbadon destroyed the clone

Is there any fluff regarding what (if anything) the clone actually accomplished or how good his Chaos powers were? I know the fact of the clone, but not whether he was a real leader of men or whether he was blessed in any way by the Chaos gods or by having great natural psychic ability. It isn't even clear whether Abbadon's crusade to destroy the clone had any real opposition.

[HandOfDorn]

I'm not aware of any solid fluff on the clone himself, but i recall, after the Heresy, Abbadon regarded Horus as a fool and a general numpty, and didn't want any trace of his foolishness to remain..

[Kizzdougs]

I think it was mentioned in the LW/SoH/BL IA that bile's clones(yes multiple clones) were "drooling abominations" or something like that. So they were definitely not a success. However if Fabius had have had more time (before the BL destroyed the clones and his lab) you never know what he could have achieved.

[ICHD?]

IIRC, there was a bit of fluff that stated that Fabius didn't approve of the direction of the Legion in general and was like "S :P W YOU GUYS! I'ma going over here!"

[Chengar Qordath]

IIRC, there was a bit of fluff that stated that Fabius didn't approve of the direction of the Legion in general and was like "S :lol: W YOU GUYS! I'ma going over here!"

Definitely true to an extent; Bile certainly did not see any appeal in worshiping Slaanesh or turning into a sense-addict. He's a classic mad scientist; the only thing he cares about is continuing his experiments, and worshiping Slaanesh did nothing to advance that goal.

[Ethrion]

Exactly what A D-B said. Fabius is a merc now, offering his 'mad' skills to whoever needs them and whoever pays the highest price. However, he will always have an ulterior motive which, as soon as is fulfilled he will most definitely be off. He left the Emperor's Children simply because he wanted to do his own thing and pursue his research without being tied down to his old Legion.

[HandOfDorn]

The ulterior motive being that of his mission to clone the Emperor.

Oh and his cloning is successful, as it is mentioned that he has cloned himself perfectly multiple times, referenced in a few Blood Angels books.

[Ethrion]

Oh and his cloning is successful, as it is mentioned that he has cloned himself perfectly multiple times, referenced in a few Blood Angels books.

 

Yes, quite true. Those Blood Angels really need to lock down their homeworld a little better! Was all too easy for Fabius to achieve his objective there! :woot:

[Trel]

I think Bile's persona non grata status among the former Emperor's Children was due to continued, unwanted experimentation on his former brothers. I remember reading about a particular incident, but it escapes me at this point.

 

To A D-B's point about the heterogeneous nature of Chaos Space Marine warbands, it makes sense to focus on specific Legions. You can't expect players to be amped about, "OK, here's a super-cool setting about all these fallen heroes...but you don't get to play them. You get to play them ten thousand years later, when they're a bunch of bitter, disaffected burnouts."

 

Indeed, though, I think some of the Legions have done a better job sticking together than most. The Word Bearers, for example: their canonical info points to them being pretty cohesive, by and large. The Iron Warriors are pretty close, too.

[nightlordsrock3564]

I always thought about him as a 40K version of Josef Mengele: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele

 

 

thats a good point, due to the experimenting and stuff

[A D-B]

I think Bile's persona non grata status among the former Emperor's Children was due to continued, unwanted experimentation on his former brothers. I remember reading about a particular incident, but it escapes me at this point.

 

To A D-B's point about the heterogeneous nature of Chaos Space Marine warbands, it makes sense to focus on specific Legions. You can't expect players to be amped about, "OK, here's a super-cool setting about all these fallen heroes...but you don't get to play them. You get to play them ten thousand years later, when they're a bunch of bitter, disaffected burnouts."

 

Well, that's a bit hyperbolic in the sense of a negative spin, but yeah, it's one of many reasons players tend to prefer the Legions. I don't disagree with it, I just try to remain cognizant of what GW are aiming for, and whether I think they're making it look as appealing as they hope it is.

[Trel]

...I just try to remain cognizant of what GW are aiming for...

 

Everyone's gotta pay the rent. :D

 

I think GW would go a long way in developing the popularity of Chaos as a unified faction as opposed to individual Legions if they created a larger all-encompassing Chaos Codex.

 

So rarely do we read about Chaos warbands that are just former Astartes. They're nearly always a mix of traitorous humans, dark mechanicum, mutants, daemons, and then, maybe a small number of Chaos Marines acting almost in a consultatory capacity.

 

Though I disliked it from a fluff perspective and a game-balance perspective, I did appreciate the latest version of the Chaos Space Marines Codex in the way it elucidated Chaos as being a significantly potent, though highly fractious force in the galaxy.

 

As well, the emphasis on Chapter personalities (and special rules and models) on the Space Marines' side has people thinking the same way on the Chaos side, and the previous Chaos Marines Codex didn't help with its special rules for each Legion.

 

If GW really wants to present Chaos in the way I think they want to sell it, they have a lot of work to do. A nice, fat, strong, all-encompassing Codex: Chaos that allowed for a wide range of army types, while reducing the Chaos Marines to an uncommon but powerful minority, would do very well, I think.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

As well, the emphasis on Chapter personalities (and special rules and models) on the Space Marines' side has people thinking the same way on the Chaos side, and the previous Chaos Marines Codex didn't help with its special rules for each Legion.

 

If GW really wants to present Chaos in the way I think they want to sell it, they have a lot of work to do. A nice, fat, strong, all-encompassing Codex: Chaos that allowed for a wide range of army types, while reducing the Chaos Marines to an uncommon but powerful minority, would do very well, I think.

 

A unified Chaos Codex, yes; a unified Chaos Codex where CSMs are relegated to the backburner, no. Ideally, I'd like to see one with as infinite a number of possible permutations as could be fit within the bounds of the Legions, the Renegades, the Daemons, and the Cults, even if it was a Codex that was 100+ pages deep.

 

There was nothing wrong with the presentation of Chaos in the previous Codex, except the bias of those tasked to write the current one against that presentation. :lol:

[A D-B]

Everyone's gotta pay the rent. ;)

 

Sooorrrrrt of. I mean, I categorically go against the fluff in that regard - as do all novels and most players - because Legion-based stuff is interesting. They sell as Word Bearers novels, and Night Lords novels, etc. Not "Warband X" novels, with characters from 6 different allegiances. (Which is a shame, as that might be cool, too.)

 

So part of it is just wanting to know what GW really want, and getting the info straight from the horse's mouth does help. The other part of it is that I like my TT armies to be in accordance with, well, "canon", such as it is. If most Chaos armies aren't mono-Legion in the background, then mine won't be either. F'rex, I'm slowly working on the ideas of two weak Chaos Lords from opposing Legions in the past, now sharing leadership over a fractious warband - an alliance of convenience - as each one waits for the right moment to stab the other guy and try to claim the others' troops.

 

That's the kinda thing I find interesting.

[Zekk_Sirius]

To A D-B's point about the heterogeneous nature of Chaos Space Marine warbands, it makes sense to focus on specific Legions. You can't expect players to be amped about, "OK, here's a super-cool setting about all these fallen heroes...but you don't get to play them. You get to play them ten thousand years later, when they're a bunch of bitter, disaffected burnouts."

 

Well that's a negative spin on them; you could equally, look at the current Chapters of the Second Founding as being "shattered, pale shadows of their former power" since the Legions were broken up, mutations have appeared amongst some, etc.

 

At the end, GW aren't trying to represent the Chaos Space Marines as they were at the time of the Horus Heresy, but the current ones which raid the Imperium, launch Black Crusades and have been confined to the Eye of Terror for (roughly) 10,000 years.

[Priest33]

Might be one of the few but I rather enjoyed the separated legion idea of Chaos from a few years ago. I found it far more fun to play a legion with its positives and negatives then the mixmashed current version that GW are putting forth. I was so disillusioned with the current chaos codex that I stopped collecting them in favor of a different army. The general "dumb" down of the codex's in the recent years has been disappointing to say the least.