Why did Fabius Bile leave the Emperor's Children?

[malika666]

I guess some Legions retained their old structure as sort of unity. The Word Bearers and Iron Warriors being on the forefront of that. They are still united Legions, who might also have members of other Legions (stolen Geneseed and such)

 

Abbadon and the Black Legion absorbed members of various other Legions and warbands, like that Night Lord sorcerer (was his name Raven?) in Soul Hunter. Abbadon furthermore absorbs anybody and anything he wants (or he simply destroys it) to bolster the number of forces under his command. The Black Legion isn't really a united Legion, but rather a vague alliance of all sorts of warbands, especially since they desperately needed to replace their numbers due to unstable daemonic possession.

 

Typhus might worship Nurgle, as do most of the Death Guard, and while they are primarily dedicated to Nurgle, I think most of the Legion would still be together, maybe no longer as the "Death Guard", but as a Nurgle faction of a sorts.

 

The Emperor's Children and World Eaters don't really exist anymore, they are truly separate warbands, some might still keep the iconography and such, but basically they are totally independent warbands with no conception of a united Legion.

 

Thousand Sons...not much left of them, some sorcerers here and there, Ahriman who wanders around.

 

But note that the main brunt of Chaos forces are not the marines. Space Marines might be ones in charge (sort of powerful warlord thing being appealing...), but the brunt of the troops are normal human soldiers, mutants, daemons, aliens, beastmen, etc. It's a bit of a shame that that doesn't get emphasized.

[Trel]

...because Legion-based stuff is interesting. They sell as Word Bearers novels, and Night Lords novels, etc. Not "Warband X" novels, with characters from 6 different allegiances. (Which is a shame, as that might be cool, too.)

 

...I'm slowly working on the ideas of two weak Chaos Lords from opposing Legions in the past, now sharing leadership over a fractious warband - an alliance of convenience - as each one waits for the right moment to stab the other guy and try to claim the others' troops.

 

That's the kinda thing I find interesting.

 

No offense to writers intended, but mono-legion stuff is also a little easier to write. So much of a character's nature is effectively already written and less time needs to be spent on character development, where a writer could otherwise completely lose his or her audience. If you have a varied band, you have a lot of characters who have travelled some pretty crazy paths to get where they are. Most likely not the case if they're still with their Legions. To wit, "Why are a mutant, a daemon, a plague Marine, a former Inquisitor, and a World Eater working together?" is a lot harder to convincingly answer than, "Why are these ten Iron Warriors working together?"

 

Sometimes with the mono-Legion books, the Legion itself is the main character and the Marines in it are almost just plot devices.

 

I would love to read your story of two Chaos Lords politicking with one another

 

Might be one of the few but I rather enjoyed the separated legion idea of Chaos from a few years ago. I found it far more fun to play a legion with its positives and negatives then the mixmashed current version that GW are putting forth. I was so disillusioned with the current chaos codex that I stopped collecting them in favor of a different army. The general "dumb" down of the codex's in the recent years has been disappointing to say the least.

 

Oh, don't get me wrong: the execution of the current Codex is dreadful, but the idea is solid. If you want to play a purely Thousand Sons army, you should be able to, but it sells the idea of Chaos short and, I think actually reduces Chaos' seriousness as a threat. When I think, "What's the biggest threat facing the galaxy right now?" I tend to think "Tyranids" when I should be thinking "Chaos". The problem is that people don't think of Chaos as Chaos; they think of the Iron Warriors or the Night Lords or the Alpha Legion. For Chaos to be taken seriously, people should think of Chaos (and see on the tabletop) a bunch of Chaos Marines, some Daemons, some corrupted humans with corrupted artillery. People should think 'Chaos' and immediately think 'unpredictable trouble' and not 'un-fluffy double Lash Prince, Plague Marine, and Oblit list'.

[Ashur]

Why would Fabius want to clone the emperor ?

[HandOfDorn]

Why would Fabius want to clone the emperor ?

 

He wants to create a perfect replica, with the same towering psychic power, martial skill, influence and general badass-ness, This replica would be slaved to the will of Fabius, thus effectively making him the 'big daddy' of Chaos, perhaps even uniting the warbands and legions for a mass assault, although the latter doesn't really suit Fabius' character. The keyword is ambition. Imagine how such a cloning would help Chaos, they would be unstoppable!

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

Why would Fabius want to clone the emperor ?

 

He wants to create a perfect replica, with the same towering psychic power, martial skill, influence and general badass-ness, This replica would be slaved to the will of Fabius, thus effectively making him the 'big daddy' of Chaos, perhaps even uniting the warbands and legions for a mass assault, although the latter doesn't really suit Fabius' character. The keyword is ambition. Imagine how such a cloning would help Chaos, they would be unstoppable!

 

Or he's just doing it to prove he can. A man like Bile doesn't need a higher motive beyond personal aggrandizement.

[Chengar Qordath]

Why would Fabius want to clone the emperor ?

 

He wants to create a perfect replica, with the same towering psychic power, martial skill, influence and general badass-ness, This replica would be slaved to the will of Fabius, thus effectively making him the 'big daddy' of Chaos, perhaps even uniting the warbands and legions for a mass assault, although the latter doesn't really suit Fabius' character. The keyword is ambition. Imagine how such a cloning would help Chaos, they would be unstoppable!

 

Or he's just doing it to prove he can. A man like Bile doesn't need a higher motive beyond personal aggrandizement.

This. From everything we know about him, Bile has absolutely no interest in military glory or advancing the cause of Chaos; all he cares about is his experiments. I would imagine he sees cloning the Emperor as the ultimate triumph, a way to prove that his genetic engineering abilities have surpassed even the Emperor's.

[HandOfDorn]

I agree, although if he successfully clones the most powerful being in the universe (with some dispute :D), what would he use him for?

[Chengar Qordath]

I agree, although if he successfully clones the most powerful being in the universe (with some dispute :lol:), what would he use him for?

Probably as an test subject to try and create a being that's even stronger than the Emperor.

[randian]

He wants to create a perfect replica, with the same towering psychic power, martial skill, influence and general badass-ness, This replica would be slaved to the will of Fabius, thus effectively making him the 'big daddy' of Chaos, perhaps even uniting the warbands and legions for a mass assault, although the latter doesn't really suit Fabius' character.

There seems to be a flaw in this plan. If the clone is as corrupt, evil, and powerful as Fabius wants him to be, won't he kill Fabius on general principle? Chaos eats its own and brooks no authority higher than itself.

[Trel]

Why would Fabius want to clone the emperor ?

 

I asked myself the same question regarding the Bene Gesserit and the Kwisatz Haderach. :D

 

But seriously folks,

partly it's the challenge, partly it's for the knowledge to be gained, partly for power.

 

If he can clone the Emperor, then Bile can create an unstoppable army of them. Even as an Apothecary, Bile was obsessed with the process of creating Space Marines and wanted to know more about it beyond just following the steps. He figured he could tweak or improve the process.

[Doghouse]

Fabius basically distanced himself from the Legion in order to follow his own agenda studying forbidden technology and the creation process of marines. There is talk of the New Man, his personal vision of evil incarnate and augmenting or cloning regular soldiers for a price.

I think there was also hints that the Cursed Founding was an attempt to recreate the Primarchs and that the only surviving subject of this process escaped to join Fabius Bile.

 

I don't recall anything about Fabius wanting to clone the Emperor but I know he did clone Horus after his body was stolen from the Sons of Horus following the defeat at Terra and made more than one copy if I remember right. I'll have to check but think it may have been as many as thirteen clones. The newly named Black Legion then proceeded to hunt them done and destroy them, it's an old piece of material from the Realm of Chaos books so I'll have to look it up.

I think that this event was the original reason for the Sons of Horus changing their name to the Black Legion actually.

 

I do know that he did study under the Dark Eldar Haemonculi in 796.M37 according to the new DE codex.

 

Edit: Just did a bit of hunting and apparently the cloning of the Emperor thing comes from the James Swallow's Blood Angel novels. The idea being that he is trying to use the blood of Sanguinius to clone the Emperor which is why I never heard of it. Not sure how canon that is considered though.

[Doghouse]

Dug out my copy of Realms of Chaos and it says that their fortress was destroyed during wars with the other legions in the eye of terror and the body of the warmaster was stolen and cloned but doesn't say by who.

In disgust for their failure the Sons of Horus renamed themselves the Black Legion and hunted down and destroyed the warmaster's body and the clone in a raid.

[Chengar Qordath]

He wants to create a perfect replica, with the same towering psychic power, martial skill, influence and general badass-ness, This replica would be slaved to the will of Fabius, thus effectively making him the 'big daddy' of Chaos, perhaps even uniting the warbands and legions for a mass assault, although the latter doesn't really suit Fabius' character.

There seems to be a flaw in this plan. If the clone is as corrupt, evil, and powerful as Fabius wants him to be, won't he kill Fabius on general principle? Chaos eats its own and brooks no authority higher than itself.

I doubt Fabius is thinking that far ahead. For that matter, he might not even care if he dies, so long as he succeeds in surpassing the Emperor in the process.

 

Dug out my copy of Realms of Chaos and it says that their fortress was destroyed during wars with the other legions in the eye of terror and the body of the warmaster was stolen and cloned but doesn't say by who.

I don't think it's ever been explicitly stated that Fabius Bile is the one who cloned Horus, but since he has ties with the Emperor's Children and is known to be messing around with cloning technology, it makes sense that we would be the prime suspect.

[TheDarker]

Maybe he didn´t like how the rest of the Emperor´s Children where looking at him... ("Oh... yeah... this night? well... i´m busy, i have to...er... clone something.... maybe tomorrow... *runs to the nearest StormBird*)

[Argon]

Perhaps this quote from his entry in the Chaos Codex might help a little bit:

 

....until his acts of genocide and other atrocities sickened even the most deranged maniacs."

 

So yeah, it sounds like he managed to be worse than everybody else. Khârn and Lucius kill because they're the champions of their respective deities, so it's just what they do. Fabius, apparently, killed untold millions or billions for science, and possibly for the lulz.

 

I could be wrong, though.

[Brother Nathan]

wait he wants to clone the emperor? well to do that hed need dna of the emperor. not likely to get that. however the emperor made the primarchs from his own self, and from the primarchs came the space marines. ergo that also explains why hes going round the legions. sure he can use marine tissue but primarch samples would make it easier. though the 2 missing...?

[Dammeron]

There is a very telling quote from the second ed Chaos Codex concerning Fabius Bile's motivations:

 

"The Dark Gods and their slaves have nothing to offer me now. But I have far more to offer them."

 

Make of that what you will.

[randian]

"The Dark Gods and their slaves have nothing to offer me now. But I have far more to offer them."

It's very interesting that he considers his former mates "slaves of Chaos", considering it was his surgical modifications that put them in that apparently contemptible state.

 

I've never understood why people like Bile consider themselves free, considering the moral, spiritual, and physical corruption Chaos has already wreaked on them. Once Chaos has its hold you can never be free.

[Jim Shady]

BUMP!

 

All in all, Bile was just crazy. He has the aura of Dr Josef Mengele about him but in the end i'm not sure Bile was seduced by Chaos considering Fulgrim gave him free reign to look into improving the EC on the quest for perfection. It seems he knew or had a feeling that if and when he make the so called "leaps" in knowledge of Astartes pysiology he planned his course!

[Texpef]

Why would Fabius want to clone the emperor ?

 

I asked myself the same question regarding the Bene Gesserit and the Kwisatz Haderach. :lol:

 

 

 

My recollections of the Dune series is that the Kwisatz Haderach was to be an ultimate being to be used against the machine domination that was written in the pre "dune" books by Frank Herberts son.. either way the Bene Gesserit thought that they could control him (and it had to be a him) as he had the ability to look back through ancestry as per the "witches" but also ahead ie into the future....