Regular v.s. Assualt Terminators

[deity12]

I was writing some army lists when i came across a problem, terminators.

Out of the two does anybody have any opinions on which is better, this is really useful because i have ten of both and can never decide, assualt termies seem utterly superior but is there something about regular i am missing?

Thanks.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

The benefit of Tactical Terminators comes from the fact that they have guns. If you are looking for a close combat unit that assaults out of a Land Raider and beats face, TH/SS Termies will be your drug of choice. Tactical Termies, because they have decent firepower, make for better deep strikers and can, on occassion, even walk across the battlefield.

[Chengar Qordath]

Deus Ex Ferrum hit the big point; the key to using regular Terminators is in finding a way to put their guns to good use. Standard terminators can boast a lot of firepower thanks to assault cannons and cyclone missile launchers, and thanks to their fists are still dangerous enough in close combat to scare off anything other than powerful dedicated assault unit. The potential for a lot of firepower into a unit, and the following it up with a powerfist charge is also hard to ignore.

 

Space Wolves are probably the best at fielding shooting focused Terminators at the moment, since they have the additional options of saving points by using a power weapon instead of a fist and replacing the storm bolter with a combi-weapon, and get Counter-Attack to make assaulting them even more hazardous.

[Grizzly_bear]

10 Tactical terminators are best At use being deep striked with Lysander with them....18/20

storm bolter shots, with 4 krak missles being fired.

 

Or if you've gone for 2 assault cannons then you're still gettin 16 re rolled

storm bolter shots with 8 strength 6 rending shots who are still able to

assault after shooting......alot of units will NOT stand against that

[spartan249]

The question you need to ask yourself is: What do you need your terminators to do?

 

If you need someone to harass a flank or protect your flank, or augment your ranged fire with mobile heavy weapon support, go with Normal Terminators.

 

If you need to hit something like a ton of bricks and eliminate it as quickly as possible, go with Assault Terminators.

[DarkGuard]

Other people here have said it, it depends on what you need them to do. Do you want them to assault stuff? Well I'd imagine Assault Terminators would be best for that, it's what they do best. Or if you want a flexible unit that can contribute in all phases and hit things in shooting and assault, then you want the normal 'Tactical Terminators'. However, don't use Tactical Terminators if you want an assault unit, because while they do have 2 power fist attacks each, their invulnerable save is awful, so you want to hit on initiative or have something to keep you alive to hit back later.

 

So to fill this we have the Assault Terminators. The best config to use in C:SM is all TH/SS. LCs are only better if you have Furious Charge, making sure you hit ahead of most people with higher strength and enough attacks to cut people to ribbons, but their invulnerable save is still fail. Remember, 5++ is a token save, not something to be relied on. So if you're Blood Angels or Black Templars, and they have Furious Assault, feel free to go mad with LCs. If you're a Codex army, stick to TH/SS. This combo gives all your men great survivability, with a 2+/3++ save, what's not to like? And when you get to strike back you have 2 (3 if charging) thunder hammer attacks to pound your enemies into submission. Fantastic unit for combat, but you'll need that survivability, because of an inherent problem that keeps the unit small. The squad is hardly mobile, and so therefore you need a Land Raider to get them where they need to be, otherwise your opponent will ignore them. You're therefore stuck with a maximum of 6 in the LRR, or 8 in the LRC. And if you want some ICs with them, then of course you're down to only 5/7. Of course, I'm not surprised to see most squads in 5s as that's the amount you get in a box, and anymore might be more points, certainly if you've got 7 in a Land Raider with a IC then that's a lot of points.

 

As for the Tactical Terminators, they really benefit from having a squad of 10 with two heavy weapons, seemingly the CML being the preferred option (although I love the look of the AC). With 10 guys you've got great survivability, with lots of firepower, and you aren't bad in combat, as long as you stay away from power weapons. This is the sort of unit that can plug any gap in the battle line, supporting your army in a firebase roll, protecting other firebases, moving into midfield with Tact squads to support them, and cleaning up units decimated by firepower. They can do more than Assault Terminators, but they can't do assault as well as them, and they require a bit more finesse and subtlety to use then 'drive here, unload, and kill'.

 

Really, the simple answer is they're better than each other in different ways, it depends what you want from them.

[Wildfire]

In all honesty, with the current vanilla 'dex combined with 5th edition rules I don't see much use in tactical termies. Assault termies are just so deadly and tough for the same cost it's silly not to take them. Combined with the fact that the tactical termie weapons are overcosted when you factor in the cost of the squad, you can see that shooting is not the way to go with such a nasty unit.

 

Really, if our termies cost 10 points less and got an upgradable power weapon instead of a power fist (like Chaos or Space Wolves), I'd be all for them. 230 for a 2 shot missile launcher is just too much, mobile or not. 180 is much more reasonable, and if they're a shooty unit you don't need the power fists so much anyways. If the th/ss combo cost more, like it does in the BA 'dex, I'd consider tactical termies as a viable alternative. Even the underpowered DA 'dex has better options for their termie squads, albeit at the price of a sucky version of the CML. But as it is, assault termies are just the way to go, at least until 6th.

[The Wunup Kid]

Something else to keep in mind is how many points you have available. A 5 man squad of assault termies will be pretty much double that of tacticle termies because of the practically required investment in a LR to deliver them quickly across the board.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

I prefer tactical temies pretty much any day of the week. They aren't exactly slouches in combat and nor are they as tough as assault terminators. They fall into the gap in the middle, but the difference is they can shoot out quite a bit of pain, along with a various wargear options.

 

Thing is when looking at terminators people too often look at the TH/SS terminators who have their 3+ save, but rarely the LC terminators, who have the regular 5+ save. Our standard terminators have many benefits over the assault variants and I think are well worth their points.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I like the imagery of Assault Terminators, but the fact is that the Tactical variety are much more versatile.

[Jackelope King]

Thunder Hammer / Storm Shield Assault Terminators are literally the standard by which all other assault units are measured. And no other Codex in the game gets them for the deal that Codex: Space Marines does.

 

That's not to say that "Tactical" Terminators are inherently bad. I certainly acknowledge that they're more versatile, but their shooting doesn't compare to truly shooty choices (either up close like Sternguard or from afar like Rifleman Dreadnoughts) and in assault they're the top of the heap of non-assault specialists: anything with power weapon attacks will wipe the floor with Tactical Terminators. Unlike Assault Terminators, their threat profile isn't greatly enhanced by riding in a Land Raider (and credit must be noted here: this means Tactical Terminators are usually going to be a cheaper investment points-wise than Assault Terminators). And they handle deep striking better than Assault Terminators by virtue of having some shooting to do in the shooting phase.

 

That said, they're strictly worse at assault than Assault Terminators, strictly worse at shooting than Sternguard. They have their uses, but their threat-level is far lower than Assault Terminators in most cases. Assault Terminators, when used to run up and smash face, will produce greater offensive results than Tactical Terminators can hope to. In most cases, Assault Terminators are simply a better expenditure of points and force organization chart slots.

[LardO'Blood]

Next time try searching, there are LOADS of topics about this.

Edit: if you look at the posts you find in search you will read MANY different arguments. Over time I have decided there is no "better" one and that it is entirely stylistic. The following is my opinion.

I've said this once, I'll say it again. Tactical terminators are (IMO) the best (maybe second best) choice in C:SM. I always field them over 750. Assault terminators are by no means bad, they just occupy a relatively small niche.

Tactical terminators are bullies. They even look the part. You use them to bolster firepower, kill MCs, bust tanks, distract your foes or powerfist things to death. To make tactical terminators with it you should exploit every chance and use you have. They probably require the most finesse in the codex, especially compared to their "point-click" TH/SS brethren.

Tips:

1. Use relentless, run around whittling the enemy down and then close in to finish with powerfists.

2. Take at least 1 chainfist. It's a terminator melta gun essentially.

3. Don't deepstrike 5 man squads if you don't have a big ultimate plan.

4. Don't deploy them out of a land raider. I like taking land raiders as DT to save heavy support slots, but leave a LR assault to the TH/SS.

5. Don't underestimate any of their weapons. A well placed squad can destroy many opponents simply with the storm bolters and heavy weapons.

6. They are superb in slogging lists, mech up and they will take all the AI fire.

7. Make the sergeant be your ablative wound.

8. I run my HQ with my terminators usually do add to the unit's CC power and more importantly, dump wounds on away from the terminators. This said, the best generic guys to add are probably captains or librarians. A RB/SS artificer captain provides some extra kick at I5 and have 3 wounds with a nice 3++. Librarians are great for null zone to make powerfists more powerful and increases the power of a force weapon. A good secondary power is vortex of doom, if you detach the librarian he can pop a transport and have the terminators assault the passengers. Alternatively VoD can weaken a squad pre-assault. The best special characters are: Vulkan, Lysander and (surprise?) Cassius. Vulkan is a slightly more expensive RB/SS captain, Lysander is great for taking wounds, killing ANYTHING and bolstering the squads firepower, Cassius is good because of liturgies of battle and he is a great wound soaker.

9. Slog them with heavy cover fire. These guys should be walking to fire as many turns as possible. Heavy backup fire is important to neutralize any dangerous AP2 enemies or any CC beasts.

10. These guys are generalist, they are not shooty terminators, they are tactical terminators. This means shoot anything scary in CC (Harlequins, carnifex broods etc.) and assault anything that will gun them down (tactical squads, fire warriors etc.).

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

I love tactical termies. I'll occasionally use assault termies, but for the most part, it's tactical termies all the way. They can chew up most of the units you'll see in assault, not including dedicated assault units which, if you follow Sun Tzu, you won't be assaulting. Attack with your greatest force against their weakest. Their shooting is incredibly useful. I tend to deep strike two five man squads onto a drop pod beacon, one with AC and one with CML. This is especially nice against guard when used correctly. You deep strike around 24 inches away from them, preferably behind cover and shoot their infantry with the AC squad. This will cause some casualties against pretty much any infantry. The CML targets the largest threat, such as Vindicators, MCs, Executioners, etc. qnd deep strikes behind that threat so the bolters can do damage. Next turn, assault/repeat until enemy is dead. Sprinkle with a light seasoning of pepper. Serve with the red hot intensity of a thousand sons. Misspelling intended. Also, though a bit less durable than your average TH/SS termy, they still soak up lots of firepower which means that that firepower is not shooting your main forces. Their 5++ is not to be ignored. I get excellent results with it.

[Duymon]

play deathwing and get both :lol:

[Wildfire]

I'm going to disagree with a lot of people here, and say that a LR isn't a requirement for assault termies. It certainly adds to their threat value, but teleporting them in still provides a 24" diameter circle into which no enemy will want to come. As an area denial unit they're pretty dang good. With the 5th edition ability to run as well, they're not that much less mobile on turns they're not attempting to charge.

 

That being said, I still would much rather put them in a landraider.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

yes assault terminators can walk, but its not as efficient. They have to then run a gauntlet of fire (which IF they are TH/SS they are going to have a better time of) the enemy can run away and throw problems they choose at them. The land raider is their best bet to use them as you want.

 

Thing is, if you are going to use the LR + TH/SS combo, it'll pretty much dictate where the sledgehammer in your army is. You'll probably have to build around that as your central part of the list since its takes a good 1/3 of the list up.

 

Tactical termies may not be as efficient in assault or as dangerous in shooting as other units can be, but they aren't supposed to be. What other units are as durable/strong/capable of moving and shooting in one unit? Plus they'll weigh in cheaper and can fill in a list, but not as a central component like TH/SS will. If they could but Storm Shields, i'm sure they'd be a MUCH more popular choice for the then 3+ save...

 

 

Also when people run assault terminators, does anyone EVER take the poor LC versions? I actually love the look of them more and the imagery than any TH/SS one, but yet you never see them...I guess the lack of that Storm Shield and the fact that the weapons aim at light infantry really don't do much for people....

[DarkGuard]

I'm going to disagree with a lot of people here, and say that a LR isn't a requirement for assault termies. It certainly adds to their threat value, but teleporting them in still provides a 24" diameter circle into which no enemy will want to come. As an area denial unit they're pretty dang good. With the 5th edition ability to run as well, they're not that much less mobile on turns they're not attempting to charge.

 

That being said, I still would much rather put them in a landraider.

 

The problems with that tactic are many. First off, deep strike mishap unless you're going to shell out for teleport homers and locator beacons. You land on my unit, then either they're dead, stuck in your far corner of the field, in the middle of the field in front of my Vindicators and Libby, or not coming in for a turn.

 

The next problem is firepower, that unit will draw firepower like, well, a bullet magnet. 200pts of stompy death dead in a turn. Assault Terminators, even TH/SS aren't invincible. They can die from weight of fire and they will die from weight of fire. And if your opponent is fielding a Libby with Null Zone, then don't think that'll invulnerable save will help, you've now gone from saving it 2/3rds of the time to less than 1/2 the time.

 

And finally, there are better things to use as area denial. Tactical squad with flamer, multi-melta in a Rhino comes to 205pts. More mobile, more survivable, and people are scared of that multi-melta, especially as it gives about a 48" diameter of no entry.

 

No, Assault Terminators are best in Land Raiders, and best with TH/SS to get that invulnerable save that lets them strike last and kick elite units and MCs in the face. We don't got for LCs because we have tons of anti-infantry in the list, no least in the LR that transports them. This way they are mobile, being able to get a 20" charge in one turn, complete with covering fire. The LR also protects them from return fire, and they will stomp most units to death.

 

Also, I'd like to examine this idea that Tactical Terminators (TT) are cheaper than Assault Terminators (AT). Now base cost they cost the same, although as people are going to want a heavy weapon (probably the CML) on the TT squad to increase their firepower. So its 230 vs 200pts at the moment. However, we're assuming that the AT squad is having a LR to make it more effective, and that's true. So we're now at 230 vs 475pts (depends on LR varient and load out). So yes, the TT squad is now cheaper. However, 5 foot slogging Terminators with 5 storm bolters and a CML? Not much of a problem, easily blown off the board. 10 men, with 2 CMLs? Now I'm scared. So final tally of points is 460pts vs 475pts.

 

So the effective TT squad is marginally cheaper than the effective AT squad, because to get the most of them you want 10 men footslogging with two heavy weapons. Small squads can be used as reaction units, but they don't do as good as other units. The reason you need 10 while footslogging is to take all those hits you're taking. The reason AT units only need 5 is because they won't get shot at until they've killed something in assault, and by then it will probably be too late. Of course you could say the IC with the AT squad hikes the cost up more, but then so does Lysander with TT squads, so its kind of the moot point. In the end, it comes down not to points, but how you want to build your list. I'm of the opinion that no list should have a Terminator squad slotted in, you have to build it around them, no matter what version they are.

[Disruptor_fe404]

There is a school of thought that prescribes footslogging Assault Terminators as the bullet magnet that draws a lot of firepower away from the rest of your army.

 

Make of it what you will.

[Brother Tagus Cerebrum]

Tactical termies are generally better if you lack a land raider, however if you have a land raider and your assualt termies will have heaps of opponents to kill easily then by all means take the assault termies. However it is mainly a case of which army and mission your playing to which you take.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

Thing is 10 tactical terminators with 2 CMLs, it suffers from the same problem as 5 TH/SS + Land Raider problem. It forms the core of an army and thus becomes what the list will have to gravitate around, trying to nullify its weakneses and play to its strengths.

 

Of course that many men are probably going to draw an awful lot of fire and suffer from the problem of having to walk around as no transport will ever hold them, part of this is nullified by their imperssive CML range and the fact that they would probably be walking anyway. Although plasma and power weapons will still provide a threat to this expensive unit.

 

10 tactical terminators is certainly a scary thought, but I would argue 5 is perhaps better for a small cadre to deepstrike into enemy lines or to provide as a small assistance unit to just about anything, but especially helping with objectives. Their weaponry is dangerous and they have enough gear to target almost anything in the game, so yes they'll draw fire, but you have now about 235 points to spend on some different things to assist that 1 small squad.

 

I think its interesting to think of TH/SS terminators as a bullet magnet, I think that its partly because they cost 200 points but operate in a very different way. A vehicle such as a vindicator could be a bullet magnet, but it is immune to small arms fire, the terminators are not. Effectively the TH/SS terminators are one of the few units that can draw small arms fire and shrug a reasonably large amount off. That said even with that save they aren't going to last forever and then thats 200 points gone, but if you can use that to force the enemy fire off other units it could be well spent. Sadly the reality is that the enemy will probably just delay shooting them and focus on the more obviously dangerous targets, then lay into the terminators...

[Mysticaria]

This is deja vu. Last week we had nearly this same thread with nearly the same people saying the same things. Just a couple thoughts....

 

- Tactical Terminators are exactly as resilient in close combat as Assault Terminators EXCEPT against units with power weapons

How is 3++ "resilient" and 5++ "a token save"? Seems like 5++ saves 1/3 of the time versus 2/3 time

Why do people fear "all power weapon units"? Are they really that prevalent that your entire army can't deal with them? Are we talking about MCs here?

 

- Tactical Terminators (and the rest of your army in fact) can shoot those units with ALL power weapons

 

- Tactical Terminators and T-hammer terminators do the same amount of damage in close combat... BUT

Tacticals can take Chainfists so technically they have BETTER damage potential in close combat.... AND

Tacticals are only less resilient against power weapon units... SO

Against anything that isn't all power weapons (i.e. most units in 40k)... Tacticals are 1) better at shooting, 2) better at fighting, and 3) just as resilient!

 

So why are "Thunder Hammer / Storm Shield Assault Terminators are literally the standard by which all other assault units are measured"?

 

-Myst

[DarkGuard]

This is deja vu. Last week we had nearly this same thread with nearly the same people saying the same things. Just a couple thoughts....

 

- Tactical Terminators are exactly as resilient in close combat as Assault Terminators EXCEPT against units with power weapons

How is 3++ "resilient" and 5++ "a token save"? Seems like 5++ saves 1/3 of the time versus 2/3 time

Why do people fear "all power weapon units"? Are they really that prevalent that your entire army can't deal with them? Are we talking about MCs here?

 

- Tactical Terminators (and the rest of your army in fact) can shoot those units with ALL power weapons

 

- Tactical Terminators and T-hammer terminators do the same amount of damage in close combat... BUT

Tacticals can take Chainfists so technically they have BETTER damage potential in close combat.... AND

Tacticals are only less resilient against power weapon units... SO

Against anything that isn't all power weapons (i.e. most units in 40k)... Tacticals are 1) better at shooting, 2) better at fighting, and 3) just as resilient!

 

So why are "Thunder Hammer / Storm Shield Assault Terminators are literally the standard by which all other assault units are measured"?

 

-Myst

 

- 5++ is a token save, just ask any Guardsman or Nid player who has to deal with multiple 5+ saves. The truth is, you can't rely on a 5++ save to get you out of trouble. Some people are really luck with rolling it, but again, you can't rely on it. 3++ is tons more reliable than a 4++, seriously I'm not kidding. I feel much more confident letting my Captain with SS take a hit to the face with a power fist than my Captain with an Iron Halo, because you are more likely to get the save. True, against regular Marines and Guardians and Necron Warriors normal Terminators are just as durable and good in combat than Assault Terminators, but then you're opponent is going to try and get their power weapon totting Vanguard unit, Howling Banshees, Warscythes into combat with you. Terminators are bully units, but they can't stand up to being doomed and then hit by Howling Banshees.

 

- Yes you can shoot down those power weapon nasty units from range, but then not everything is going to go your way. You may miss, or not be able to blow up their transport in time. If your opponent footslogs their Banshees infront of a couple of a Rifleman Dreads in the open they don't deserve to cut up your Terminators. If they chuck them in a Wave Serpent, isolate your squad, jump out and then chop them out then they've done well, and what is to be expected. Sometimes you'll be able to shoot them, sometimes you won't, but if I want a combat unit I'd go for TH/SS in case I can't shoot the power weapon squad down in time.

 

- And Assault Terminators have Thunder Hammers which can knock that Hive Tyrant down to initiative 1, or the Nightbringer, or anything that survives, and stop tanks shooting for a turn. And those Thunder Hammers are free. The chainfist is a good weapon, I'm not denying that, but it's only good against vehicles, and if you're relying on your Terminators to take out Land Raiders what happened to your meltaguns? In combat against the things you put Assault Termys against, things like elite units and MCs, that chainfist will do nothing while the Thunder Hammer could do something useful.

 

And another thing on resilience, Assault Terminators are very resilient when they're in their Land Raider, and still are when they're out of it and getting shot by plasma. Tacticals are hardly every in Land Raiders, and melt to plasma fire. People set Assault Terminators as the standard of combat as they focus on that. They won't get caught out in combat by power weapons and sneaky power fists, or by having their ride stranded a couple of yards away and having to endure plasma fire. A Tactical Termy squad couldn't do this. However, they can get more bodies onto the board than Assault Termys, and have a pretty unrelenting firepower for a unit, with the option of combat. However, if I had to choose a sole, dedicated combat unit that can take nearly any punishment and dish it back out with interest, I'd take TH/SS Termys and let the rest of my army do the shooting.

[Mysticaria]

This is deja vu. Last week we had nearly this same thread with nearly the same people saying the same things. Just a couple thoughts....

 

- Tactical Terminators are exactly as resilient in close combat as Assault Terminators EXCEPT against units with power weapons

How is 3++ "resilient" and 5++ "a token save"? Seems like 5++ saves 1/3 of the time versus 2/3 time

Why do people fear "all power weapon units"? Are they really that prevalent that your entire army can't deal with them? Are we talking about MCs here?

 

- Tactical Terminators (and the rest of your army in fact) can shoot those units with ALL power weapons

 

- Tactical Terminators and T-hammer terminators do the same amount of damage in close combat... BUT

Tacticals can take Chainfists so technically they have BETTER damage potential in close combat.... AND

Tacticals are only less resilient against power weapon units... SO

Against anything that isn't all power weapons (i.e. most units in 40k)... Tacticals are 1) better at shooting, 2) better at fighting, and 3) just as resilient!

 

So why are "Thunder Hammer / Storm Shield Assault Terminators are literally the standard by which all other assault units are measured"?

 

-Myst

 

- 5++ is a token save, just ask any Guardsman or Nid player who has to deal with multiple 5+ saves. The truth is, you can't rely on a 5++ save to get you out of trouble. Some people are really luck with rolling it, but again, you can't rely on it. 3++ is tons more reliable than a 4++, seriously I'm not kidding. I feel much more confident letting my Captain with SS take a hit to the face with a power fist than my Captain with an Iron Halo, because you are more likely to get the save. True, against regular Marines and Guardians and Necron Warriors normal Terminators are just as durable and good in combat than Assault Terminators, but then you're opponent is going to try and get their power weapon totting Vanguard unit, Howling Banshees, Warscythes into combat with you. Terminators are bully units, but they can't stand up to being doomed and then hit by Howling Banshees.

 

- Yes you can shoot down those power weapon nasty units from range, but then not everything is going to go your way. You may miss, or not be able to blow up their transport in time. If your opponent footslogs their Banshees infront of a couple of a Rifleman Dreads in the open they don't deserve to cut up your Terminators. If they chuck them in a Wave Serpent, isolate your squad, jump out and then chop them out then they've done well, and what is to be expected. Sometimes you'll be able to shoot them, sometimes you won't, but if I want a combat unit I'd go for TH/SS in case I can't shoot the power weapon squad down in time.

 

- And Assault Terminators have Thunder Hammers which can knock that Hive Tyrant down to initiative 1, or the Nightbringer, or anything that survives, and stop tanks shooting for a turn. And those Thunder Hammers are free. The chainfist is a good weapon, I'm not denying that, but it's only good against vehicles, and if you're relying on your Terminators to take out Land Raiders what happened to your meltaguns? In combat against the things you put Assault Termys against, things like elite units and MCs, that chainfist will do nothing while the Thunder Hammer could do something useful.

 

And another thing on resilience, Assault Terminators are very resilient when they're in their Land Raider, and still are when they're out of it and getting shot by plasma. Tacticals are hardly every in Land Raiders, and melt to plasma fire. People set Assault Terminators as the standard of combat as they focus on that. They won't get caught out in combat by power weapons and sneaky power fists, or by having their ride stranded a couple of yards away and having to endure plasma fire. A Tactical Termy squad couldn't do this. However, they can get more bodies onto the board than Assault Termys, and have a pretty unrelenting firepower for a unit, with the option of combat. However, if I had to choose a sole, dedicated combat unit that can take nearly any punishment and dish it back out with interest, I'd take TH/SS Termys and let the rest of my army do the shooting.

 

Token save of 5++ is exactly half the save of 3++. That means that for every power weapon or plasma wound suffered you still lose half as many T-hammers as you would tacticals. True, 3++ is better... but it doesn't equate to invulnerable and it doesn't make the 5++ crap.

 

If you get charged by banshees it won't matter if you have Storm Shields or not, you are still dead. For every 2 Tactical Terminators you lose in close combat to howling banshees you still lose 1 thunderhammer terminator. Take away the 5 extra Tactical Terminators you could have got without paying for the landraider and you are just as dead. Exactly the same amount of dead as a matter of fact.

 

So the real issue is MCs. If you go up against MCs less than you go up against dreds, killa kans, defilers, etc... then you are better off with Thunderhammers. If, on the other hand, you don't play against Tyranids, you might want to think about the options a little before you dismiss them out of hand.

 

Finally... melta weapons going after terminators.... I find to be a bad argument... Since that same meltaweapon is going to hurt the T-hammers just as much by destroying their ride. Since the T-hammer squad is half as many, they have to kill 5 Tactical terminators before they would kill 1 landraider in order to say that tactical terminators are less resilient. I would argue that most armies are more prepared to deal with 1 land raider than they are ready to deal with 5 extra terminators. I know people are playing with some plasmaweapons now, but honestly when is the last time you saw someone with the ability to put serious amount of plasma on one spot on the board. Remember the Tactical Terminators go where you want, and have the option to deep strike. I would really be hard pressed to see a scenario where I would walk Tactical terminators into rapid fire plasma range. If I do that I deserve to lose.

 

-Myst

[Wildfire]

Also when people run assault terminators, does anyone EVER take the poor LC versions? I actually love the look of them more and the imagery than any TH/SS one, but yet you never see them...I guess the lack of that Storm Shield and the fact that the weapons aim at light infantry really don't do much for people....

 

Not since 5th ed C:SM came out. Back in 4th, the LC version was superior. These days, with the increase in protection that the storm shield provides, th/ss versions are better. That changed with C:BA, though. GW caught on and made th/ss termies cost more. I think we'll see that trend continue throughout 5th.

 

@Darkguard: My experience doesn't support your conclusions. We'll simply have to disagree.

[Chengar Qordath]

Also when people run assault terminators, does anyone EVER take the poor LC versions? I actually love the look of them more and the imagery than any TH/SS one, but yet you never see them...I guess the lack of that Storm Shield and the fact that the weapons aim at light infantry really don't do much for people....

 

Not since 5th ed C:SM came out. Back in 4th, the LC version was superior. These days, with the increase in protection that the storm shield provides, th/ss versions are better. That changed with C:BA, though. GW caught on and made th/ss termies cost more. I think we'll see that trend continue throughout 5th.

 

@Darkguard: My experience doesn't support your conclusions. We'll simply have to disagree.

There does seem to be one exception to the general "all hammers all the time" rule; when you LC terminators who have access to furious charge. S5 I5 claws are a lot more tempting, since they hit first against most opponents and have a pretty good chance of completely shredding the enemy before they ever get a chance to hit back.