Death Company

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

They are a glass hammer because they can be kited around and will fold up versus low AP shooting.

[Gv0zD]

I run mine on foot with bolters, a few special combat weapons, or in a drop pod if I want an early start. If nothing else they are a distraction for my opponents, because Raged or not, you cannot ignore their Furious Charge, WS 5 charge from even a few. A must have unit? I think not, but as my brother's have stated already, they're fluffy and a flavorful unit to take.

 

So is it a good idea to run DC with bolters in Razor? If memory serves, they cannot charge after being disembarked but still can shoot, isn't it?

 

So I was thinking to use them as a distraction to shoot off some enemies and buy some time for my troops to take objectives. 

 

EDIT: Can anyone explain what is a "Glass Hammer"? :D

[zebanash]

I used to love DC in 3rd & 4th, however with the new 'dex, i can't stand not being able to control my units for the price of a 5 man DC with JP's and a TH/Fist its just 30 points more for a controllable RAS with 2 meltaguns and a fist.

 

Unreliable is what i see in them, if they had fleet i may be tempted to take them, but for the 5 games i've tried them i have not enjoyed it at all.

[SamaNagol]

They are a glass hammer because they can be kited around and will fold up versus low AP shooting.

 

They cannot be kited around when you put them in a transport, which 99% of the world does.

 

Secondly, if they are absorbing shots which are AP 2, unless you are across the table from a plethora of Plasma weaponry which lets face it is rather rare these days, it means those high strength anti-vehicle weapons are not blowing up your troop transports or tanks. EVERYTHING dies to AP2 weaponry apart from Storm Shield Terminators and vastly expensive Ork Nob Biker units.

 

They are INCREDIBLY survivable. Perhaps you have been spoilt previously with whatever armies you previously used.

[Lynnean]

The stupid removal of being able to control them with a Chaplain makes them a 'take or leave' unit. They aren't a must have like say Sanguinary Priests or Assault Marines.

assault marines a must have? ok, they're awesome, but tactical marines can do pretty well too.

at least, for me ;)

 

neither do i use a DC, but tried them somethimes, and they do pretty well.

although Priests can give the army buffs, so i see the DC as unnecessary since i don't use a Chaplain or Reclusiarch :P

[Dark Legionnare]

Like others agreed with me, pop them into a transport to avoid kiting and then you can shove em out to cause havoc when you're close enough. I've played almost 30 5th ed games in the last year and a half, 17-20 with the DC probably, and I have never had them kited. Hiding them in a transport is a great way to keep things simple, but when it comes down to it, or your rhino/razorback got blown up you just have to shield their eyes. Move up a Razorback, rhino, vindi, pred, whatever... Pull it in front of them to block their LOS to enemies, pop smoke on the vehicle, and then form them up behind the tank when they move. Then you march them up the field behind the tank. That's almost always how I recover if they ever get left out in the open.

 

Another little tidbit I love about the DC are their threat factor. The threat factor they give off is pretty good, especially paired with a chaplain or Reclusiarch. They're like terminators, when they come out your enemy will tend to focus a lot of his firepower on them to make sure they don't sweep through his lines. I almost always put them in a LRC so when the Land Raider pulls up near your enemy and pops out DC they suddenly find themselves with two very strong units within "sound-thrashing" distance of their forces.

 

This gives you more opportunity to move up or position your other forces. My usual strategy it to almost always have the DC ready to unleash hell in someone's army while I Heroic intervention my Vanguard with priest somewhere. The fact that the DC are out usually means that people will either unload on them and slightly on the VG, or concentrate all on one or the other. This has saved me VV a couple times when they scattered out of range of their assault. DC being a dangerous target meant those plasma cannons that were close to the DC weren't shooting at my VV in the open.

 

It's all speculation until you actually have something happen or successfully pull of the tank LOS recovery of your rouge DC. But I myself love to spend the 280ish points for 6 DC (one with powersword) and a Reclusiarch in any 1500 point or more games. For only around 300 points you get a pretty strong semi-death star unit. While low body count, I can almost guarantee they'll beat any other squad in CC except maybe high initiative named heroes, some MC's, or CC termies with TH's. Nothing ruins power weapon wounds in CC like storm shields... *grumble*

[Gv0zD]

Thanks for the tips!

 

I see that most people run DC equipped for CC. However there are some fellas who run DC with bolters. Now, I was thinking of droppodding bolter DC closer to the enemy lines so they would shoot off some bad guys, and distract fire, while my other units make their moves and get close to the enemy. Would it be of any use?

[breng77]

In low point games I have most often seen peopel take just 5 DC (in some vehicle so they can be controlled) with minimal equipment, as a way to unlock a death company Dread with Blood talons, which can be a bear for some armies to deal with at low points.

[skipp]

I always wanted to try lemartes + 5-6 non JP DC in a stormraven with a blood talon DC dread. Prolly play around with it a little when the model comes out

[Wildfire]

EDIT: Can anyone explain what is a "Glass Hammer"? :(

 

Normally it means a unit that hits very hard but dies very easily. As a previous poster said, Eldar Banshees are a great example. They all have powerswords and hit first in CC with a fair number of attacks, but they're just T3 with a 4+.

[Zealadin]

The whole JP cost really destroys many of their uses.

[SamaNagol]

The JP costs, especially when you factor in the inabilty to control their movement, is utterly prohibitive and you will rarely see a JP DC outside of an all DC theme army list or possibly a DoA list. But even then people tend to go for the more versatile VGV

[Chimaera2000]

I've had a great deal of success with 10 x Death Company w/ bolters, 2x Infernus Pistols and 2x Power Fists in a Drop Pod (about 300 points). They've provided me with several uses:

 

1) Alpha Strike: Unless the opponent reserves his entire army, you can either melt a vehicle or double-tap an infantry squad with sixteen bolter shots on the turn you arrive.

 

2) Backfield threat: The bolters have a 24" threat radius, the power fists can threaten any target type, and on a charge they can hit a infantry targets hard. There are few targets that the Death Company can't threaten and when you're in their unit-choked backfield, your opponent can't reasonably "kite" them without redeploying most of their force.

 

3) Shot-soaking distraction: Death Company aren't your scoring units, don't have the danger of having a Priest sniped, and with bolters don't come in at that much more expensive than your Assault marines. Most of the time it's to your benefit to have your Death Company take fire instead of your other squads.

[Gv0zD]

@ Chimaera2000

Thanks for the tips! I had something similar in mind. I thought that as DC are not scoring and not being able to control, then I'll just drop them into the heat and let them shoot and take punishment instead of my RAS etc.

I'll definitely give it a try.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

erm...1 Death Company with Jump Pack and Bolter = 1 pt less then 2 RAS with nothing on them.... that doesnt....seem like that a small increase to me.

 

Its like

I had 2 Vindicators and the other guy had 1 but it was basically the same amount.

I had 2000pts and the other guy had 1000 but its basically the same.

I had 3 wounds and the other guy had 1 left but it was a fair fight.

[shatter]

I just played 6 combats on my floor with 10 jp bolter DC vs 20 RAS. The DC charged 1st 3 times, ate them 5 times, once with no losses... although those rolls were a little aberrant.

[vahouth]

DC are not worth taking without at least a Chaplain for those rerolls.

That's at least 100pts more to the pot but extremelly well spent IMHO.

Also 1 DC with JP may be 1pt less than 2 ASMs

1 DC also has +1WS +1A + FC +FNP which means that the ASMs would also need a SP for support (+50pts at minimum)

They also have black rage but that's not a problem the way I play them mostly as a sacrificial unit (meaning exactly what they are).

 

Most of the time I'm adding a DC unit + 2 ASM squads in my lists.

[shatter]

You forgot relentless. =)

[Kurb]

I always wanted to try lemartes + 5-6 non JP DC in a stormraven with a blood talon DC dread. Prolly play around with it a little when the model comes out

 

 

Planning on the same myself.

Lemartes looks to be just badass on paper.

[zebanash]

You know, i never thought about using Bolter DC in a DP to cause mass chaos in an enemy line, couple it with a Furioso and a spare DP to allow both to come down first turn and you'll have an opponent having a mid life crisis on which target he should be prioritizing on.

 

The only issue i have with doing that is it takes away alot of your support elements (i like to run 2 AssC Baals and a 4x ML Dev squad and a rifledread) so you'll almost have to rely on melta guns to do most your dirty work...

 

That and with my local meta, everyone is transport happy and rarely has infantry sitting out in the open unless they are Dev's or some sort of heavy support (my meta also likes to pack plasma, especially the IG players, i really really hate that plasma executioner tank)

[vahouth]

You forgot relentless. =)

 

:P

 

:D

[TheHarrower]

They took away the ability for a chaplain to control them and their rending rules which are pretty big losses in my book. I'm fine with their price considering what they are capable of, I'd even be ok with their JP price if they still had rending and a chaplain was capable of controling their Rage.

 

I still use them and enjoy them (plus the new models are amazing) but they aren't an auto include unit by any means.

 

 

I'd rather have WS5 and options for power weapons and power fists. I miss Chaplains being able to control them, but it's not a huge loss in my book. That's what transports are for.

[TheHarrower]

They are a glass hammer because they can be kited around and will fold up versus low AP shooting.

 

I respectfully disagree. Those are weaknesses. It certainly doesn't make the unit a glass hammer.

[Chairman_woo]

They are a glass hammer because they can be kited around and will fold up versus low AP shooting.

 

I respectfully disagree. Those are weaknesses. It certainly doesn't make the unit a glass hammer.

 

 

X2 here, I fear the term "glass hammer" has become so standard in its usage that many people seem to just take it to mean "super unit" or just "very dangerous unit". These can accurately be described as "hammer units" but the glass part refers to a squad that is disproportionateily weak at taking damage whilst also being a hammer. Death company are more resilient than most marines let alone other units so it seems somewhat absurd to call them a "glass hammer", unless maybe you give them all powerfists or something equally silly.

[shatter]

Aye, it's a bit relative.

 

VS power weapons, DC will shatter. Versus marines without PWs, they prove glass's place on the hardness scale. (Glass is HARD!)

 

DC are heavy, medium and light infantry killers, but not elite killers. Versus them, they need to be tooled and have the advantage of turn (I) as elite models tend to have armour (& FnP) ignoring attacks. Of course some basic troops have these attack types... *chuckle*