A Thousand Sons questions

[Tycho6]

I've just finished reading it and have a few questions. I've only read the HH books up to there and then posts off this forum, so I'm not familiar with the wider 30k (or 40k) universe other than that and a random browse through the most recent C: SM and DA.

 

1) When Gaumon and co leave Prospero it says Something to the effect that he looks back at Prospero and thinks it will be his last look at it, but it won't be. I can't recall any mention of him returning. Have I missed something?

 

2) Is the planet the TS end up on in the EoT?

 

3) Has Magnus turned, despite his intentions before the invasion? I thought in 40k he still existed as a daemon prince, so I assume he has, but am not really clear.

 

4) Does Ahriman intend to lead the TS and effectively usurp Magnus?

 

5) Have the TS and Ahriman remained loyal to the E? Is there now a questionmark like with the Alpha Legion?

 

6) Does Russ have some TS-like power - the 'roar' on Shrike and again on Prospero I think.

 

7) When Ahriman finally confronted Othere he saw that there had been 'a more human' betrayal than just Horus altering Russ' mission. What was it and how does Valdor fit into the deception?

 

8) Is Prospero destroyed by the SW?

 

A lot of questions I know!

 

I look forward to being enlightened ;-)

[HandOfDorn]

I can provide light on some of these:

 

2) Yes, they landed on the Planet of Sorcerers, which is where they still reside in the Eye of Terror.

 

4) Yes, this is the beginning of the Rubric of Ahriman, a cult dedicated to the reversal of the gene plague.

 

5) Yes and No, it's for you to decide :)

 

Sorry i can't help you on the rest..

[Tycho6]

Thank you, that does help. It also makes me feel better knowing I haven't just completely misunderstood the book. :-)

[HandOfDorn]

Haha, no worries, this is amongst the more cryptic of the Horus Heresy books, it's not just you!

[Aqatone]

1) You haven't missed something, it was just supposed to be left in the air like that for speculation I suppose.

 

2) Indeed it is.

 

3) Well he'd love to see the Galaxy Burn. So in a sense, yes.

 

4) For a while Ahriman did lead the TS while Magnus was in his Tower being emo about everything. And looked what happened when Ahrmian was in charge.

 

5) I doubt they are still loyal, they're pretty twisted now.

 

6) Russ, like all the other Primachs is a Psyker.

 

7) No idea, could interpret several things. Valdor was there to help Arrest magnus but Horus "changed" the order.

 

8) Yes it is.

[S. Bloodhowl]

Hope this helps:

 

First off I agree with HAndofDorn on those questions.

 

1) Don't know, sorry :(

 

3) Again, don't know :(

 

6) I believe we will find out in Prospero Burns (out in 6 days!! :D )

 

7) I'm unsure of this, but I have a feeling that Valdor also "corrected"/altered Russ's orders like Horus (as I believe he had a mistrust of Psykers, and heted Magnus for defying the Council of Nikea (not sure of spelling, or even if it is the right name :wacko: )). Probably in Prospero Burns as well.

 

8 )It was definitely destroyed, but I'm not sure by who, probably explained in Prospero Burns

[S. Bloodhowl]

Double Post :wacko:

[Tycho6]

4) For a while Ahriman did lead the TS while Magnus was in his Tower being emo about everything. And looked what happened when Ahrmian was in charge.

 

What happened?

 

Can't believe Prospero Burns is out soon, I just started Nemesis this

morning. May have to shelve it and read PB!

[S. Bloodhowl]

4) For a while Ahriman did lead the TS while Magnus was in his Tower being emo about everything. And looked what happened when Ahrmian was in charge.

 

What happened?

 

Can't believe Prospero Burns is out soon, I just started Nemesis this

morning. May have to shelve it and read PB!

 

The Rubrik of Ahriman happened, and half the legion who weren't psykers turned to dust. Actually, does it even mention non-psykic thousand sons in the book?

[bystrom]

I thought it was more like the TS that weren't strong enough psykers got dusted.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

I thought it was more like the TS that weren't strong enough psykers got dusted.

 

This. A slight retcon, I think.

[Ethrion]

5) I like to think that Ahriman has always remained loyal to the Emperor himself and the Imperium as originally intended. But he hates the Space Wolves for their destruction of his home world, the destruction of all of the Thousand Sons accumulated knowledge and he also hates the Imperium as it is now. After all he does say:

 

"And what are the achievements of your fragile Imperium? It is a corpse rotting slowly from within while maggots writhe in its belly. It was built with the toil of heroes and giants, and now it is inhabited by frightened weaklings to whom the glories of those times are half-forgotten legends. I have forgotten nothing, and my wisdom has expanded far beyond mere mortal frailties."

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

1) When Gaumon and co leave Prospero it says Something to the effect that he looks back at Prospero and thinks it will be his last look at it, but it won't be. I can't recall any mention of him returning. Have I missed something?

No answer yet

2) Is the planet the TS end up on in the EoT?

yes

3) Has Magnus turned, despite his intentions before the invasion? I thought in 40k he still existed as a daemon prince, so I assume he has, but am not really clear.

he turned. his arrogance gave him no other path

4) Does Ahriman intend to lead the TS and effectively usurp Magnus?

idont believe so.

5) Have the TS and Ahriman remained loyal to the E? Is there now a questionmark like with the Alpha Legion?

no. while they were "loyal" in the book, their bitterness turned them to other powers

6) Does Russ have some TS-like power - the 'roar' on Shrike and again on Prospero I think.

he, like all primarchs, is warp touched. while his abilities arent blatant like magnus or sanguinius, they are present

7) When Ahriman finally confronted Othere he saw that there had been 'a more human' betrayal than just Horus altering Russ' mission. What was it and how does Valdor fit into the deception?

probably ahriman looking for others to blame for the TS's disloyalty (arrogance again)

8) Is Prospero destroyed by the SW?

Oh yea.

A lot of questions I know!

 

I look forward to being enlightened ;-)

 

WLK

[Solid Zaku]

1) When Gaumon and co leave Prospero it says Something to the effect that he looks back at Prospero and thinks it will be his last look at it, but it won't be. I can't recall any mention of him returning. Have I missed something?

 

No, this is likely something that the next author will touch on in the sister book.

 

2) Is the planet the TS end up on in the EoT?

 

Yes, it will eventually be known as the Planet of Sorcerers, famous even today.

 

3) Has Magnus turned, despite his intentions before the invasion? I thought in 40k he still existed as a daemon prince, so I assume he has, but am not really clear.

 

Yes, his grief and remorse over his arrogance and unintentional destruction of his father's plans had driven him to Tzeentch, although one might say that this is all just as planned.

 

4) Does Ahriman intend to lead the TS and effectively usurp Magnus?

 

No. Although these books do effectively tear apart the fluff written in the Chaos codexes of the past, it can still be assumed that Ahriman's intentions remain the same. His intent is to try to understand Tzeentch, not overthrow Magnus. That, and to end the corrupting influences that are taking over his brothers. This leads to him, as he mentions in the epilogue, creating the Rubric of Ahriman, and from there the rest is history.

 

5) Have the TS and Ahriman remained loyal to the E? Is there now a questionmark like with the Alpha Legion?

 

No, although theirs is a reluctant betrayal. While (initially) the Alpha Legion's betrayal was in the best interest of the Imperium, the Thousand Sons have turned traitor both out of guilt and necessity.

 

6) Does Russ have some TS-like power - the 'roar' on Shrike and again on Prospero I think.

 

Already answered. All Primarchs have some latent psychic talent.

 

7) When Ahriman finally confronted Othere he saw that there had been 'a more human' betrayal than just Horus altering Russ' mission. What was it and how does Valdor fit into the deception?

 

I think the 'more human' betrayal was a figure of speech, regarding the fact that most of the passing down of orders was done by Malcador and the like. Valdor had to have been in charge of dispatching the joining Custodes that aided the Wolves

 

8) Is Prospero destroyed by the SW?

 

The definitive answer to this will come in the sister book, but as it is written in fluff sofar, yes.

[Gree]

1) When Gaumon and co leave Prospero it says Something to the effect that he looks back at Prospero and thinks it will be his last look at it, but it won't be. I can't recall any mention of him returning. Have I missed something?

 

That's his last scene in the book. Although he will probably appear in Prospero Burns or a future novel.

 

2) Is the planet the TS end up on in the EoT?

 

Yes.

 

3) Has Magnus turned, despite his intentions before the invasion? I thought in 40k he still existed as a daemon prince, so I assume he has, but am not really clear.

 

Yes, out of sheer grief and basically getting screwed over by everyone he was turned.

 

4) Does Ahriman intend to lead the TS and effectively usurp Magnus?

 

I don't think Ahriman cares about leadership anymore, just knowledge.

 

5) Have the TS and Ahriman remained loyal to the E? Is there now a questionmark like with the Alpha Legion?

 

Unknown. Ahirman is certainly not loyal to the Imperium. It's unknown what he thinks of the Emperor.

 

Those who follow Magnus are definitely Chaos worshippers though.

 

6) Does Russ have some TS-like power - the 'roar' on Shrike and again on Prospero I think.

 

I think it's more due ot his innate abilities.

 

7) When Ahriman finally confronted Othere he saw that there had been 'a more human' betrayal than just Horus altering Russ' mission. What was it and how does Valdor fit into the deception?

 

Unknown, go read my Prospero Burns spoilers to what I have found out from spoilers.

 

8) Is Prospero destroyed by the SW?

 

Yes.

[randian]

His intent is to try to understand Tzeentch, not overthrow Magnus. That, and to end the corrupting influences that are taking over his brothers. This leads to him, as he mentions in the epilogue, creating the Rubric of Ahriman, and from there the rest is history.

How was becoming a Chaos sorcerer to cast the Rubric supposed to do anything but make Ahriman and his cohorts irreversibly corrupt? You can't end corruption by embracing corruption. They could detect the corruption (and were repulsed by it) of that daemon they encountered earlier in the book; they should have "smelled" the corruption emanating from the Chaos tomes they read and the early experiments they conducted in Chaos sorcery. One wonders why they didn't confront Magnus once they realized that.

[Lady_Mournival]

6) I believe to get the true answer you must contemplate the saying "There are no wolves on Fenris." that and wait until the next book.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

His intent is to try to understand Tzeentch, not overthrow Magnus. That, and to end the corrupting influences that are taking over his brothers. This leads to him, as he mentions in the epilogue, creating the Rubric of Ahriman, and from there the rest is history.

How was becoming a Chaos sorcerer to cast the Rubric supposed to do anything but make Ahriman and his cohorts irreversibly corrupt? You can't end corruption by embracing corruption. They could detect the corruption (and were repulsed by it) of that daemon they encountered earlier in the book; they should have "smelled" the corruption emanating from the Chaos tomes they read and the early experiments they conducted in Chaos sorcery. One wonders why they didn't confront Magnus once they realized that.

 

What good would it have done? Magnus had already corrupted them by "saving" them from the flesh change for however long his contract with the Warp specified. His Faustian deal with Tzeentch had tainted them all; the Rubric was an attempt to dig the Legion out from under it, but it didn't work, because unlike what the Space Wolves think, you can't nitpick and choose your sorceries and where the power is coming from. The same sorcery that made the Rubric happen made the flesh change happen, made their psyker-society happen, made Magnus happen, and arguably had it all planned that way from the beginning.

[Razhbad]

I've just finished reading it and have a few questions. I've only read the HH books up to there and then posts off this forum, so I'm not familiar with the wider 30k (or 40k) universe other than that and a random browse through the most recent C: SM and DA.

 

1) When Gaumon and co leave Prospero it says Something to the effect that he looks back at Prospero and thinks it will be his last look at it, but it won't be. I can't recall any mention of him returning. Have I missed something?

 

2) Is the planet the TS end up on in the EoT?

 

3) Has Magnus turned, despite his intentions before the invasion? I thought in 40k he still existed as a daemon prince, so I assume he has, but am not really clear.

 

4) Does Ahriman intend to lead the TS and effectively usurp Magnus?

 

5) Have the TS and Ahriman remained loyal to the E? Is there now a questionmark like with the Alpha Legion?

 

6) Does Russ have some TS-like power - the 'roar' on Shrike and again on Prospero I think.

 

7) When Ahriman finally confronted Othere he saw that there had been 'a more human' betrayal than just Horus altering Russ' mission. What was it and how does Valdor fit into the deception?

 

8) Is Prospero destroyed by the SW?

 

A lot of questions I know!

 

I look forward to being enlightened ;-)

 

1 There is another book coming called Prospero burns my guess they will return to Prospero then

 

2 Yes

 

3 Magnus has indeed turned, there is only so much God tauting and death a man can handle even a primarch. At least his turning was more believable then Horus and Fulgrim

 

4 Indeed by the end of things Arihman hates Magnus

 

5 Its debatable, certainly in the future Arihman is morally grey and casues the death of several loyal forces to the Emperor. But is he doing it for some high purpose, who knows. But no doubt whatever his loyalties the answers he needs lie within the Black Library itself

 

6 Yes he does, all Primarchs are Psykers most do not have the power that Magnus has and a lot are probably unawhere of their talents.

 

7 Nah i think he is refurring to the Wolf Priest betraying Arihman, after all teh Wolf Priest his a psyker aswell despite his denial of his gifts.

 

8 Sort of in the 41st Millenium people can go there in fact the TS do, but nothing lives their anymore. THe Imperium destroyed all life on it along with every Traitor Legion planet.

[Trel]

6) Does Russ have some TS-like power - the 'roar' on Shrike and again on Prospero I think.

He may not be aware of it, he may be hiding it, or he may be in denial about it. Russ is, of course, as unnatural a being as Magnus and the book has a number of references to Russ hiding behind the mask of a bellicose savage. There are probably a number of things about Leman Russ that probably go against his martial ethos that he would prefer no one knew about.

 

3) Has Magnus turned, despite his intentions before the invasion? I thought in 40k he still existed as a daemon prince, so I assume he has, but am not really clear.

Well he's certainly turned from the Imperium. Someone with Magnus' arrogance probably won't just willingly submit to worshipping a Chaos god. At least at this point (at the end of the book), he is entirely free to pursue whatever knowledge he wants and no longer has to worry about anything being forbidden to him. Of course, after ten thousand years, things may have changed.

 

4) Does Ahriman intend to lead the TS and effectively usurp Magnus?

I don't know if he hates Magnus, but he certainly can never trust him ever again. For all his talk of illuminating humanity, Magnus was a liar, plain and simple, and that was the cause of his downfall. Magnus was corrupted via his vanity long before the events of the book and it took the outcomes of the book for Magnus to realize it (if he even ever did). Ahriman, on the other hand, is fully aware of Magnus' lies. I can't say if he intends to take complete Leadership, though as first captain it's his place to do so in the absence of Magnus. Certainly, though, at the end of the book, he wants to redeem both his Legion and its policy of pursuing knowledge in the eyes of the Emperor. (Again, ten thousand years can change a lot of things.)

[Mr. Sandbot]

7) When Ahriman finally confronted Othere he saw that there had been 'a more human' betrayal than just Horus altering Russ' mission. What was it and how does Valdor fit into the deception?

 

I think what he was referring to was that during the sacking of Prospero, the Sons felt like fate and everything they had known betrayed them due to some great ethereal god that Magnus bargained with. As a result he saw all of these things that are far bigger than the Sons as the root cause to their down fall. But when he came into contact with Othere, it suggests that Valdor and other people within the Imperium just plainly wanted the Sons out (which is suggested in the council of Nikea).

So by a "more human" betrayal, he means that there were politics and more human affairs involved with this that was independent from the warp fueled "betrayal" that led the Wolves to attack Prospero.

[Deus Lox]

7) When Ahriman finally confronted Othere he saw that there had been 'a more human' betrayal than just Horus altering Russ' mission. What was it and how does Valdor fit into the deception?

 

Well, when I read the passage in question, I thought it was referring to Horus' betrayal of the Emperor, which was fueled by the Ruinous Powers, as opposed to Russ' accidental betrayal of the Emperor's intent. I'll have to reread it, however.

 

An earlier passage refers to Magnus and Amon eavesdropping on Russ' planning, hearing both Valdor and Horus influencing Russ to violent action. As far as Horus goes, it is known why he would do this, and I believe Valdor's actions are caused by a loathing for the Thousand Sons, probably springing from their disobedience to the Emperor.

 

All of this is guesswork, however. A more clear picture will probably appear with Prospero Burns.

[Mr. Sandbot]

7) When Ahriman finally confronted Othere he saw that there had been 'a more human' betrayal than just Horus altering Russ' mission. What was it and how does Valdor fit into the deception?

 

Well, when I read the passage in question, I thought it was referring to Horus' betrayal of the Emperor, which was fueled by the Ruinous Powers, as opposed to Russ' accidental betrayal of the Emperor's intent. I'll have to reread it, however.

 

An earlier passage refers to Magnus and Amon eavesdropping on Russ' planning, hearing both Valdor and Horus influencing Russ to violent action. As far as Horus goes, it is known why he would do this, and I believe Valdor's actions are caused by a loathing for the Thousand Sons, probably springing from their disobedience to the Emperor.

 

All of this is guesswork, however. A more clear picture will probably appear with Prospero Burns.

 

Agreed. Hopefully most of this will be cleared when Prospero Burns comes out, especially since I want to see Russ' reaction when he is being told he needs to kill/attack one of his brothers since it seems like such a great moral dilemma to see the Wolf King in.

(The Thousand Son fan in still hopes Abnett will flesh out Magnus just enough to elevate him from the "har har I'm an arrogant smart prick- oh crap I dun goofed" character)

[Gree]

Agreed. Hopefully most of this will be cleared when Prospero Burns comes out, especially since I want to see Russ' reaction when he is being told he needs to kill/attack one of his brothers since it seems like such a great moral dilemma to see the Wolf King in.

(The Thousand Son fan in still hopes Abnett will flesh out Magnus just enough to elevate him from the "har har I'm an arrogant smart prick- oh crap I dun goofed" character)

 

 

Don't get your hopes up. According to the latest spoilers the Thousand Sons barely appear for most of the book.

 

[Mr. Sandbot]

Agreed. Hopefully most of this will be cleared when Prospero Burns comes out, especially since I want to see Russ' reaction when he is being told he needs to kill/attack one of his brothers since it seems like such a great moral dilemma to see the Wolf King in.

(The Thousand Son fan in still hopes Abnett will flesh out Magnus just enough to elevate him from the "har har I'm an arrogant smart prick- oh crap I dun goofed" character)

 

 

Don't get your hopes up. According to the latest spoilers the Thousand Sons barely appear for most of the book.

 

 

^_^

 

EDIT: well at least we'll still have a good book for the Wolves unless Abnett has one of his rare misses.