How can you beat this ork list?!

[breng77]

I found one of the easiest ways to kill horde orks is to block their movement with Vehicles (either Rhinos, or speeders). Then having flamers on Bikes near by. IF the orks want to move around the vehicles it slows them down, if they assault the vehicles they pile in and get flamed, which kills a lot of orks. By no means fool proof but it does work at times. As for a dread list I would expect BA death company dreads to do well (with proper support) They chew through units without invul saves, (as long as the player rolls decently).

[greatcrusade08]

can you imagine blood talons on an ork mob... ouch!

 

i definately think playing a list like this would be a blast, if im ever in the NE of the US ill look up your games club ;)

[Captain Idaho]

Counter charge with Honour Guard, counter charge with Honour Guard, counter charge with Honour Guard...

[greatcrusade08]

Counter charge with Honour Guard, counter charge with Honour Guard, counter charge with Honour Guard...

 

ouch, ouch and ouch.. supported by dreadies ive no doubt ;)

[breng77]

Well one DC dread on odds will kill about 8 orks on the charge. The orks are then unlikely to do much damage to the dread (averaging 0.75 damage results per round so say 1. WHich is only a 10% chance of destroying the dread. If it loses an arm that is bad, but it is more likely to be shaken or stunned and ignore that result. So that means orks lose by 7 and 5-6 more orks die. They pile in etc. This is obviously not a given it could go better or worse for either side.

 

A furious dread would do less damage (having one less attack) but also take less damage b/c it is armor 13.

[spartan249]

You sound like quite a fun opponent to play, and I'd love to play you man. Maine's quite a bit of ground to cover from california though, so that might not work out so well. In the mean time, I'll definitely read up on your playstyle with the list and try to get my ork friend to smarten up XD. No guarantees, but we'll see if I can get beyond 50% win ratios against it.

 

Edit: Lol! Maine ain't Nebraska D:

[RIPPEDDRAGON]

But each of these solutions only answers only one of the threats the list poses. Kans do very well mopping up both dreads and honor guard. If you counter charge the storrmboyz or nobz then I charge you with 30 man squads. If you counter charge the 30 man squads then the kans charge you.

[RIPPEDDRAGON]

You sound like quite a fun opponent to play, and I'd love to play you man. Nebraska's quite a bit of ground to cover from california though, so that might not work out so well. In the mean time, I'll definitely read up on your playstyle with the list and try to get my ork friend to smarten up XD. No guarantees, but we'll see if I can get beyond 50% win ratios against it.

 

Go for it and you probably miss read or i did but the group of us posting are from Maine

[Captain Idaho]

Easy. Your other units shoot those units that are such a threat! A Dreadnought can put the hurt on Killa Kans with shooting and assault (hitting on 3s with 3 attacks and penetrating on 2+) whilst a single squadron of Typhoons can destroy those nasty Killa Kans in 2 turns on average...

 

Simples.

[ShinyRhino]

If you want first hand facts ming and shinyrhino are the best to ask about what happens almost every game. They have gotten better and games have gotten closer in recent times. However, I still win.

 

I'll get you someday! SOMEDAY!

 

I know shiny does not think there is any skill in playing my list but there is much more then meets the eye. Properly guessing distances both my threat ranges and all opponent charge ranges is the big one. After that properly spacing, moving, and evaluating targets while math hammering out what my units can and cant handle in combat (mainly how many units should I multi charge).

 

Nah, I just like to poke you with a stick from a distance ;) You are damned good at what you do. Otherwise, we wouldn't all be asking for help taking you out! It's just good-natured jealousy at your win/loss record. I hope to be as refined in my execution one day with my Biker/Jumper/Speeder list.

 

This list and my strategy is like the Zulu horns of the bull. Fast suicide units in the flank and then the hard hitting head coming in after.

 

I just watched that movie for the first time last week!

[greatcrusade08]

I just watched that movie for the first time last week!

 

 

whaaaa? thats an inconic movie, i think it should be required viewing for all gamers..

my mates like to joke as my last name is Evans :)

[RIPPEDDRAGON]

Easy. Your other units shoot those units that are such a threat! A Dreadnought can put the hurt on Killa Kans with shooting and assault (hitting on 3s with 3 attacks and penetrating on 2+) whilst a single squadron of Typhoons can destroy those nasty Killa Kans in 2 turns on average...

 

Simples.

 

Like stated before you are only focusing on one aspect of my army at a time. Take the analysis as a whole. Focus on the kans with fire and the nobs get through and beat the dreads or speeders on turn two. The Stormboyz will be in your grill locking you up and holding you on turn two. My lootas will rip your speeders a new one or stop them from shooting. I am known for taking all uge choppas on my nobz and 2 pks. They easily tear dreads apart and if i catch speeders even hitting on a 6. Sure throw down a ton of units that will kill me like 6 dreads and 9 speeders...then remember that you just spent a ton of points and dont have nearly any troops. I can then just kill your troops and negate a loss. Plus you just list tailored in a tourney setting and you have a small chance of playing me.

 

You need to make a balanced list and play well plain and simple. Use what you know and and follow the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) method.

[breng77]

But each of these solutions only answers only one of the threats the list poses. Kans do very well mopping up both dreads and honor guard. If you counter charge the storrmboyz or nobz then I charge you with 30 man squads. If you counter charge the 30 man squads then the kans charge you.

 

Which is why I said properly supported :). There is no one thing that is going to be "well if you do this you win." I have had good sucess killing kans in most games. They are pretty slow (which hurts them especially in DOW), and AV 11 in a squadron means that it is not too difficult to kill for most lists (that are built to kill mech) it is the rest of your list that is quite a bit more dangerous. One of the reasons orks do pretty well at tourneys is that they break the meta game. If everyone else is running heavy mech, and the orks come in as a horde, then often times people are not prepared for that many bodies. If I were looking at your list the Boyz mobs and storm boyz would be what worry me the most. Killing a truck with Ghazgkull is not that difficult (unless there is a ton of LOS blocking terrain.) Once the nobs are on foot I can focus on other things for a few turns. The problem is killing enough orks before they hit most of your army, which is not an easy task.

[Captain Idaho]

I'd take you on but when will I get the chance? ;)

 

My answer is the Kans can be ignored for a couple turns due to their speed. That is 2 turns to kill a Trukk and counter charge. The Stormboyz die in my turn's counter charge from the Honour Guard. Your charge has to go through the Rhino transports first so even suffering a charge I get first strike back.

 

It's all accademic really as we can do this dance all night, but what I was bringing up above is that there are other counters I can use. ;)

[greatcrusade08]

i can beat you all....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

with a stick whilst you sleep ;)

[breng77]

I never sleep :)

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Not that that in anyway stops you from beating me with a stick. :)

[Voltaire]

]

I think you have one Razorback too many in there. One extra via cut-n-paste?

My main concern with this list is objective battles. 20 Marines in small packages to hold objectives? 8 shots per Predator is nice, but remember cover saves, especially once the battle lines narrow. All of your vehicles except the Speeders must remain stationary to be an actual threat, which puts you at EXTREME risk of a Waaaagh assault. One well-placed Waaagh assault will put the hurt on many of your tanks that didn't move in order to put out full firepower.

 

 

The Master can take a razorback as a dedicated transport cant he? >.>

 

 

Everything else just makes a game between these two lists more entertaining.

[ShinyRhino]

The Master can take a razorback as a dedicated transport cant he? >.>

 

Nope. None of our HQs can take a dedicated transport all by their onesies. It's one of the reasons no one takes Servitors anymore...no way to cart them around without stealing a ride!

[fredbob524]

Two things to say here, 1 Captain Idaho what is with your strange obsession for Honor Guard when they quite honestly blow, two why is no one else pissed by the fact that Ripped dragon is using the second edition truck just to keep it out of los.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Two things to say here, 1 Captain Idaho what is with your strange obsession for Honor Guard when they quite honestly blow, two why is no one else pissed by the fact that Ripped dragon is using the second edition truck just to keep it out of los.

 

In answer to point one.. Captain Idaho has had alot of success with Honour Guard, thus making a statement informed by his experience.

 

You on the other hand come in with a meaningless "they blow..", which aside from being a poor way to construct a sentence is hardly adding to the debate.

[DAwarrior43]

Two things to say here, 1 Captain Idaho what is with your strange obsession for Honor Guard when they quite honestly blow, two why is no one else pissed by the fact that Ripped dragon is using the second edition truck just to keep it out of los.

 

I wouldn't knock Idaho for something he uses well and if you read the later posts the guy is using a new truck with his winnings from his tourneys

[fredbob524]

@DAwarrior43 fair enough on the truck

 

and on Honor Guard, the are small expensive, and while they could be used well they cannot do anything a squad of assault terminators with th/ss could not do better. I find one persons anecdotal advice to rarely be a good way to make my lists, I had great success with a thunderfire cannon once killing two whole 5 man terminator squads in one game with some excellent rolling, but that does not make it an auto include.

[DarkGuard]

@DAwarrior43 fair enough on the truck

 

and on Honor Guard, the are small expensive, and while they could be used well they cannot do anything a squad of assault terminators with th/ss could not do better. I find one persons anecdotal advice to rarely be a good way to make my lists, I had great success with a thunderfire cannon once killing two whole 5 man terminator squads in one game with some excellent rolling, but that does not make it an auto include.

 

Well if you don't find someone's anecdotal advice to be a good way to make lists then don't follow the advice, but don't knock it because someone else makes it work. If Captain Idaho has a good experience with Honour Guard, then I'd say he's well within his rights to recommend the ways in which he uses them which makes them so effective for him, and then other people may benefit more from the feedback he gives.

 

Everything should be given a chance to impress, and if it personally doesn't impress or work for you then let it go. Perhaps make a constructive comment as to why you dislike said unit but don't just dismiss it callously, especially when someone is likely to have spent time and effort to make them work in their list.

 

Captain Idaho was just giving his own experience and his own way on how he would handle the list, and it included Honour Guard. If I'm being honest against Orks in general I condone assault if able to, with anything, including Tactical squads. The reason being that in charging Orks you deny them their Furious Charge bonus, allowing you to strike at a higher initiative than them and resist their attacks better. Against anything except Nobz I doubt you would need TH/SS Terminators, while being able to strike before the Orks can bring weight of numbers down on you would be highly helpful.

 

Killa Kan squadrons should be treated like War Walkers and Land Speeders IMO (kind of), so target them with multiple shot mid-high strength weaponry. Vindicators can also be helpful due to the Ordnance Blast rules which means the Kan hit directly will die and the ones next to it may take some damage. Where transports are involved try to shoot them out quickly at long-range and let the big nasty unit inside footslog.

 

I doubt anything I can add (and anything I've said beforehand) hasn't been covered already. Just keep your cool, get the entire army footslogging, apply firepower to one unit at a time to eradicate it completely, and if faced with a choice of charge or be charged, then charge, especially if they are normal Ork Boyz.

[Voltaire]

The Master can take a razorback as a dedicated transport cant he? >.>

 

Nope. None of our HQs can take a dedicated transport all by their onesies. It's one of the reasons no one takes Servitors anymore...no way to cart them around without stealing a ride!

 

Ah yes I did see that after checking the codex later on. However I've revised the list to include another tac squad, a libby, and a Heavy flamer razorback which only makes it stronger.

[Grey Mage]

So we have a player at our LGS that dominates all who opposes with his orks. He runs the same thing all the time, and we all know what it's going to do, and it kicks ass all the time. He wins our monthly tournaments whenever he plays and is almost undefeated with them. He's a good guy but has got us all scratching our heads going "how do we beat this guy." here's his list roughly for 2000 points.

 

Ghazkull

5 mega nobz (ride in truck)

3-4 30 strong mobz with power klaws

Full squad of stormboyz

9 killa kanz

squad of lootas

 

TACTICS: Kanz screen the boyz and on turns 1-2 just run forward, and Ghaz and stormboyz race ahead to eat whatever. He describes it as the 3 prong attack, Storm boys race ahead and kill stuff till they die in turn, them come the boyz (usually with Ghaz and mega nobz) followed by the kanz to mop up whatever is left.

 

This list is crazy! It almost tables his opponent every time and we all know what it does and how he's going to do it, but we just can't beat this guy. Any advice on taking this beast down a notch?

2k?

 

Rune Priest- Living Lightning, Murderous Hurricane- 100pts.

Bjorn- 270pts.

 

5 WS- MG, PW- 100pts.

 

2x 10 GHs- 2xMG, PW, Totem, Rhino- 430pts.

3x 10 GHs- 2xPG, PF, Totem, Rhino- 690pts.

 

2x Typhoon- 180

 

Whirlwind- 85

5 LFs- 4xML, Razorback- 155pts.

 

2k even.

 

Id feel quite confident in tackling that guy with this. Turn one pop the trukk and make the Mega-nobz walk to me. WW and Typhoons concentrate on the Lootas to knock out alot of his LR firepower. After that its target priority- Take the stormboys out to kill his already limited mobility, drop the mobz down to a manageable size as they come in using bolter fire and frags, taking out the Kahns with the LFs and Typhoons. Bjorn will use his PC to target the Meganobz as they close in.

 

Orks will charge in, GHs go first and rip them to peices. Ghaz is a beast, but hes not enough to keep his force from being destroyed.

 

By the end of turn 4 I expect there to be less than 50 orks on the field, to the loss of around 15-20 GHs.