Can Inquisitors rock it with the best of them?

[Voltaire]

Just looking over the Inquisitors retinue and armory, it's obvious that he's suited to a midrange fire roll, with a squad of veterans backing him up with hellguns.

 

But there's also quite a tasty selection of hideously good close combat weapons. But an inquisitor is still only human, so I'm not certain whether its possible to make him a close combat monster. Yet I feel there might.

 

 

I'll get to the point.

 

 

 

How would one make an Inquisitor and his retinue assault worthy? Or is that merely an amusing fantasy?

[Validar]

in general, it doesn't seem like the Inquisitor and retinue quite make it up to other specialist CC units in the same range. However, with the Codex: witch Hunters you can make them pretty mean through crusaders and 2 physicans + acolytes with powerweapons

[breng77]

It is pretty much a fantasty. With S and T 3 he does not pack enough of a punch for his points. THe best you can probably do is the following.

 

DH

Inquisitor Lord w/ Artificer Armor, Evicerator, Icon of the Just, Holy, Relic, Digital Weapons, Holocaust

3 Acolytes w/ Artificer armor

3 Combat Servitors

3 Familiars

3 Mysitcs

 

This gives you an Inquisitor who is WS 5 and I 5 with 4 S 6 Thunder hammer attacks attacks on the charge, The combat servitors each have 2 S 6 power fist attacks So that is (10 S 6 attacks at I1) The Familairs, Mystics and Acolytes are basically for soaking wounds so that the I 1 attacks can go off. That said this is a 350 point unit that won't stand up in combat to units that are Half as Expensive in CC.

 

WH can do it a bit better but it is still over costed.

Inquisitor Lord

Force Weapon

Bolt Pistol

Rosariaus

Inquisitorial Mandate

Digital Weapons

Hammer hand

 

3 Acolytes w/ Carapace Armor, Power Weapon

 

3 Crusaders (4++ save and PW)

 

3 Familiars

3 Chirgeons

 

This gives you Either 5 S 3 force weapon attacks or 5 S 6 regular attacks at I 5 with the Inquisitor + an addition S 4 attack at I 7.

 

9 S 3 PW attacks at I 3.

 

The Familars are there to soak wounds, the CHirgeons allow you to ignore one failed save on the Inquisitor each round and SOak wounds.

 

Again though this is still a 350 point unit that is not going to earn its points back. The Low S, T and I hurt alot, as does the price tag.

[Inquisitor Fox]

Check the link in my siggy for a long winded answer, but I'm of the opinion they do relatively well :o

 

Here's a section of my longer answer:

 

...

 

Survivability for an Inquisitor is harder than say, a Space Marine, but there are several tricks which help render them hard to touch. First, there is the Retinue rule in the BRB, which makes them an untargetable squad upgrade as long as their retinue is alive, since their retinue is a bodyguard. Second, the fact that they can have power armor and a rosarius (WH) gives them a 3+/4+ armor save. Yes, a DH Inquisitor can have a 2+/4+ but they don't have chiurgeons. Chirugeons allow the Inquisitor to ignore the first unsaved wound suffered each round, if you have 2 or more it even ignores an Instant Death wound. Spiffy! Also an Inquisitor can allocate any wound inflicted on the Inquisitor to an Acolyte instead before any saves are attempted. You are limited to one wound per acolyte allocated in this fashion. Crusader henchmen (a WH unique bit) come with a 4+ invulnerable save which is also useful in terms of wound allocation. What this boils down to is I almost always have my Inquisitor and 1 to 4 or so members of the retinue alive at the end of the game, often without any wounds on the Inquisitor.

 

Psychic powers give several options for an Inquisitor geared towards close combat. I would look at Hammerhand, His Will Be Done, and Scourging. Personally I go with His Will Be Done and Scourging. His Will Be Done is best paired with a high number of power weapon attacks in my experience, whereas Hammerhand can substitute for a strength boosting anti-armor capability, however the lower strength of an Inquisitor compared to say Space Marines (Grey Knights) mean that it isn't very effective against anything more heavily armored than a Rhino. Scourging is simply an assault shooting attack, albeit a very useful one.

 

Another question is weapon outfitting for the Inquisitor. You have three main choices: power weapon, eviscerator, and force weapon. Power weapons and a second close combat weapon allow for a lot of attacks at a high initiative and weapon skill that bypass armor. Eviscerators allow for a higher strength and somewhat effective anti-armor capability. Eviscerators do, of course, force you to strike last. Your retinue (as described above) can help keep you alive long enough for these blows to still show up though. Force weapons allow for potential insta-gibs, which is useful as more and more models are losing Eternal Warrior status. The downside to a force weapon is the inability to use a psychic power such as His Will Be Done in the same round. Thankfully it doubles as a power weapon, although if you never use the potential insta-gib you'd be better off just taking the cheaper power weapon. Digital weapons are a useful piece of wargear for an easy extra attack. More dice rolled is good as it just might cause a wound and force a save.

 

In my own experience, having a transport for the Inquisitor and retinue is key, particularly for an assault oriented retinue, as otherwise toughness 3 with a majority of 4+ or 5+ saves can be a little squishy. Personally I go the full monty and purchase a Land Raider. Why? Because the WH FAQ undedicates the Land Raider letting it carry anyone, it's AV14 all around, and comes with two twin-linked lascannons, which is a heck of a boost to anti-armor capabilities for the Witch Hunters. It's transport, protection, intimidation, and anti-armor all in one. The fact I blinged it out with Forge World bits and now it looks cool is just a bonus.

 

In terms of a melee retinue there are two major approaches: Power weapon spam, or monster-hunting. Both center around the following henchmen: 3 acolytes, 3 warriors, 2+ chiurgeons, 1+ familiar. The familiar is really there just for the inherent +1 initiative. The two chiurgeons are fairly critical in terms of wound prevention and keeping your Inquisitor alive, along with the acolytes. The warriors are some of your main offensive punch, they will either be crusaders or combat servitors depending.

 

For power weapon spam the acolytes need to be armed with power weapons. This leaves an few points per acolyte for wargear, often carapace armor or some combination of grenades. Note it is really easy to differentiate acolytes to help abuse the wound allocation system. The warriors will be crusaders. This gives you 18 power weapon attacks on the charge, half of which are at WS4. The warriors come with frag and krak grenades, and a 4+/4+ save. Add this onto the power weapon attacks from the Inquisitor and you're looking at a lot of potential pain.

 

Monster-hunting relies on acolytes armed with mancatchers, which some points per acolyte in wargear (just enough for power armor). The key here is in eliminating the attacks of monstrous creatures or independant characters to render them mostly harmless. Warriors should be combat servitors as they get power fists instead of power weapons, although they're WS3 instead of 4 and have less attacks.

 

...

 

EDIT:

3 Acolytes w/ Carapace Armor, Power Weapon

 

3 Crusaders (4++ save and PW)

 

...

 

9 S 3 PW attacks at I 3.

These numbers are off, when adding a power weapon to the Acolytes, you do not lose their laspistol, since the power weapon replaces the close combat weapon. This means your Acolytes also are the bearers of a second attack, meaning you have 12 S3 attacks total at I3, 18 on the charge :P Additionally you do still get attacks from the rest of the retinue (albeit not power weapon attacks).

[Inquisitor Fox]

Just looking over the Inquisitors retinue and armory, it's obvious that he's suited to a midrange fire roll, with a squad of veterans backing him up with hellguns.

Just noticed this statement... actually the general consensus is that a DH Inquisitor is better suited to a long-range heavy weapons role, giving him a Psycannon from the armory, then upgrading 3 warriors to be Weapons Servitors with heavy bolters, multi-meltas, and up to one plasma cannon. Add a couple of Sages and Mystics and you're golden :o

[Voltaire]

mm yes, it would appear my initial hunch was correct, inquisitors are more suited to ranged fire-support. As are most armies.

 

It would be possible to create a super retinue, however I feel that it's only a one time deal as most armies are capable of killing this unit very quickly, albeit not always immediately but still I'd like the squad to survive more than two or three assault phases.

 

Hellguns and psybolts.

[Inquisitor Fox]

mm yes, it would appear my initial hunch was correct, inquisitors are more suited to ranged fire-support. As are most armies.

 

It would be possible to create a super retinue, however I feel that it's only a one time deal as most armies are capable of killing this unit very quickly, albeit not always immediately but still I'd like the squad to survive more than two or three assault phases.

 

Hellguns and psybolts.

No no no ... NOT Hellguns.. Hellguns are lasguns with bolter AP and kinda crap :o They are NOT the AP3 juicy goodness of the newer Hot-Shot Lasgun. Heavy Weapons Servitors.. each one bearing either a heavy bolter, multi-melta, or one can have a plasma cannon. Give the DH Inquisitor a psycannon call it good.

 

WH Inquisitors do not do as well in a shooting role, as they don't pack a psycannon, however they can fill a much needed role in a WH army, which is as a counter-charge assault unit. The WH army doesn't function as a close combat army, but as a shooting army. Having units like DCAs, Arcos, Seraphim, Repentia or an Inquisitor and retinue as a second line to assist the mainline Battle Sisters or ISTs is definately a worthy investment, not to mention the table-wide psychic hood (and potential Land Raider to help out your Exorcists).

 

EDIT: I should point out you Can take 3 special weapons on your Veterans, like say plasma or meltas, but it seems most people don't. Probably because it's really only an echo of a IST squad who have the same weapons options, whereas the heavy weapons you can't really get as often in the list.

[Chengar Qordath]

EDIT: I should point out you Can take 3 special weapons on your Veterans, like say plasma or meltas, but it seems most people don't. Probably because it's really only an echo of a IST squad who have the same weapons options, whereas the heavy weapons you can't really get as often in the list.

Personally, I've always felt this is a mistake; spamming special and combi-weapons can give you a unit that is still pretty cheap and has the capacity to do a lot of damage against the right targets.

[breng77]

These numbers are off, when adding a power weapon to the Acolytes, you do not lose their laspistol, since the power weapon replaces the close combat weapon. This means your Acolytes also are the bearers of a second attack, meaning you have 12 S3 attacks total at I3, 18 on the charge Additionally you do still get attacks from the rest of the retinue (albeit not power weapon attacks).

 

Actually I only Calculated for 3 of the models, I was think 3 attacks each, but forgot the 6 models.

 

Either way it is still not a scary as the points would suggest. Against a 10 man tactical squad I will kil 4 tactical marines on the charge while taking 3 wounds (losing 3 familars, or a Chirgeon most likely). Then in round 2 it will kill 2 or 3 more tacticals and lose another 2 or 3 models itself.. Eventually it will win, but then it will be largely crippled, and will have killed a unit that costs abotu 2/3 at much (at most)

[Inquisitor Fox]

One thing I think comes up often when discussing Inquisitor's with Retinues, is that people say they're overcosted for their combat results. Lots of what their cost is is non-combat abilities, or the ability to synergize with the rest of the force. Imperial armies as a general rule do not require unit synergy the same way an Eldar or Tau army does, however the Inquisition is one of the areas that works this way. Inquisitors provide psychic protection via psychic hood, useful powers via their own psychic abilities (particularly WH Inquisitors), DH Inquisitors provide protection via Mystics, Heirophants, and their anti-daemon bubble, and various bits of wargear can assist the entire army even from the get-go like the Emperor's Tarot or the Inquisitorial Mandate.

 

I never advocate using an Inquisitor and Retinue as a spearhead charge unit. They'll fail, and it won't work. They Do however perform rather nicely as a linebacker role. Their job, IMO and experience, is to be behind your front line (which is to engage in rapid-fire range firefights) and watch for a point where the opponent is going to break through the line. They then move to that point and reinforce or counter-charge an ongoing combat. As ranged assist they provide valuable firepower to the rest of the army while still granting the various wargear and psychic powers.

 

The DH and WH Codices have 2 HQ choices, which do vastly different roles. The Chamber Militant choices (Grey Knight heroes or Adepta Sororitas Heroines) are the close combat monsters, the Inquisitors are ranged and general support. They each fill a valuable niche on the tabletop, the trick is chosing the right choice for the right job. Trying to have one choice do the job of the other isn't going to work :) Just like an Eldar player doesn't have a close combat Farseer (a model whose job is to support the rest of the army via psychic powers), we shouldn't put our Inquisitors into a role better suited by the Chambers Militant and expect them to come up with Aces. They can be equipped to come up with Queens if you do it right and still do the rest of their jobs and support, but the Chambers Militant will still outperform them in a sheer combat duty.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I never advocate using an Inquisitor and Retinue as a spearhead charge unit. They'll fail, and it won't work. They Do however perform rather nicely as a linebacker role. Their job, IMO and experience, is to be behind your front line (which is to engage in rapid-fire range firefights) and watch for a point where the opponent is going to break through the line. They then move to that point and reinforce or counter-charge an ongoing combat. As ranged assist they provide valuable firepower to the rest of the army while still granting the various wargear and psychic powers.

 

Basically you ascribe them to the postion of Run Defence - to continue your "football" analogy?

[Inquisitor Fox]

I never advocate using an Inquisitor and Retinue as a spearhead charge unit. They'll fail, and it won't work. They Do however perform rather nicely as a linebacker role. Their job, IMO and experience, is to be behind your front line (which is to engage in rapid-fire range firefights) and watch for a point where the opponent is going to break through the line. They then move to that point and reinforce or counter-charge an ongoing combat. As ranged assist they provide valuable firepower to the rest of the army while still granting the various wargear and psychic powers.

 

Basically you ascribe them to the postion of Run Defence - to continue your "football" analogy?

Yes. You have your wall of Sisters and ISTs walking forward via transports and foot slogging into rapid fire range, think of this as your defensive line.

 

You've got your long range artillery like Exorcists and Retributors as your defensive backs.. staying well behind the line and taking care of select targets.

 

Your Inquisitors and other counter-charge units (assassins, arco's, Seraphim, etc) sit comfortably in the middle in more of a middle/outside linebacker role. They see if anything actually gets through the main defensive line and jumps the threat with assistance of other units. They can peel off and take care of one or two select threats like skirmishing speeders or things making a dash towards your artillery.

 

They're the utilitarian units. You don't rush forward with them intent on cutting off the head of the enemy army like you would with a Land Raider filled with TH/SS Termies. Instead I sit mine in a Land Raider, but it's a lascannon toting model. I let the Land Raider fire at enemy armor with its twin-linked lascannons (sometimes splitting it's fire as appropriate via Power of the Machine Spirit), then if I see a point where I need my Inquisitor and Retinue to reinforce, I'll drive forward the requisite 12" and utilize the assault ramp to charge after disembarking and firing as many assault weapons as I have (if any) depending on retinue setup.

 

This works better if something in the defensive line (Battle Sisters or the like) takes the charge first. If they've still got a few models left, the enemy loses it's charge bonus, and I gain mine with the counter-charge. They don't perform the same way as an offensive close combat unit does (like said TH/SS Termies) but are a "oh crap, if I don't do something they're going to break through and seriously mess me up" kind of unit. I tend to pair the Inquisitor and Retinue with either a selection of DCAs or another reactionary unit like Seraphim and send both of them at once to deal with whatever the going to be a threat is. Is it overkill in terms of points? Yes.. but it works.

[breng77]

Oh I would hardly say that Inquisitors and their Retinues do not serve a purpose. They do with their war gear and they are a fine supporting unit. I was just arguing that it is not possible to make the inquisitor a close combat monster as the OP has asked.

[DinoDoc]

I was just arguing that it is not possible to make the inquisitor a close combat monster as the OP has asked.

Torquemada Coteaz seems to make a decent stab at it but that's likely not what the OP wanted.

[breng77]

Precisely, useful, even good at close combat to me does not equal close combat monster. TH/SS termies are close combat monsters, Mephiston is a close combat monster, you could even argue a Grey Knight Grandmaster is a close combat monster. THe inquisitor just does not have the stats or abilities to be a close combat monster.

[Gentlemanloser]

THe inquisitor just does not have the stats or abilities to be a close combat monster.

 

Seconded.

 

Until you can run one versus a Wolf Lord with Frost Blade, Belt of Russ, WTN, Thundrwolf Mount and Saga of the Warrior Born and hold your own, you're not a CC Monster (Or a Chaos Daemon Daemon Prince of Nurgle for that matter).

 

The game has moved on, CC is a lot more powerful and deadly, and Inquisitors can't keep up.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

THe inquisitor just does not have the stats or abilities to be a close combat monster.

 

Seconded.

 

Until you can run one versus a Wolf Lord with Frost Blade, Belt of Russ, WTN, Thundrwolf Mount and Saga of the Warrior Born and hold your own, you're not a CC Monster (Or a Chaos Daemon Daemon Prince of Nurgle for that matter).

 

The game has moved on, CC is a lot more powerful and deadly, and Inquisitors can't keep up.

 

The thing is, basically everything with a humanoid profile can't stand up in CC, so it isn't just Inquisitors that lack in this regard.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I think in a way we need to adapt the mindset (similar to say, Imperial Guard) where you don't think of just the "Inquisitor" as themselves, it's really "Inquisitor and Retinue" which is the real unit. The Retinue is really integral to the success or failure of the Inquisitor on the tabletop. While a Space Marine Captain can exist without a Command Squad, an Inquisitor Lord doesn't have the option until his fellows all die. Granted individual characters that are say 200 or 300 points are pretty well.. I mean we're at Archaeon or um.. Calgar or so. Buuuttt... a unit as a whole might be able to do relatively alright against just those folks by themselves. For a bit.

 

I think that Inquisitors really don't cross compare to current Codices yet (the edition shift is starting to show), that and they really plug holes in unit selection within our own Codices. For Daemon Hunters they help provide the long range firepower that is lacking, and for Witch Hunters they help provide a counter-charge element that otherwise isn't present. They're team players, not go get'em heroes.

[melvinmcsnatch]

We have a very experienced WH player at my club who swears by the Inquisitor. I'll ask him about his setup next time I see him. But I don't see it. A fully loaded Inquisitor Lord and retinue barely stacks up to MEQ. He could probably beat a lot of humans to death, but so can anything.

 

I'd still take Cannoness as my counter-assault choice: She's always had great survivability for me and she fits into the broader strategy.

 

And running a DH Inquisitor-Mystic-Servitor is just the way to go. Why spoil that?

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I think in a way we need to adapt the mindset (similar to say, Imperial Guard) where you don't think of just the "Inquisitor" as themselves, it's really "Inquisitor and Retinue" which is the real unit. The Retinue is really integral to the success or failure of the Inquisitor on the tabletop. While a Space Marine Captain can exist without a Command Squad, an Inquisitor Lord doesn't have the option until his fellows all die. Granted individual characters that are say 200 or 300 points are pretty well.. I mean we're at Archaeon or um.. Calgar or so. Buuuttt... a unit as a whole might be able to do relatively alright against just those folks by themselves. For a bit.

 

Therein lays the problem.. You are required to use the retinue to make the Inquisitor actually effective and this is a drawback from the choice in my opinion; yes you get some useful options and weapons, but it's still something that doesn't have much/any? flexibility.

[Chengar Qordath]

I think in a way we need to adapt the mindset (similar to say, Imperial Guard) where you don't think of just the "Inquisitor" as themselves, it's really "Inquisitor and Retinue" which is the real unit. The Retinue is really integral to the success or failure of the Inquisitor on the tabletop. While a Space Marine Captain can exist without a Command Squad, an Inquisitor Lord doesn't have the option until his fellows all die. Granted individual characters that are say 200 or 300 points are pretty well.. I mean we're at Archaeon or um.. Calgar or so. Buuuttt... a unit as a whole might be able to do relatively alright against just those folks by themselves. For a bit.

 

Therein lays the problem.. You are required to use the retinue to make the Inquisitor actually effective and this is a drawback from the choice in my opinion; yes you get some useful options and weapons, but it's still something that doesn't have much/any? flexibility.

How is a retinue not flexible? They're quite possibly the most flexible unit in the entire game (unless there are any other units that can be geared for assault, close-combat, and heavy weapon gunline).

 

Granted, some builds work better with certain types of armies, but it's still a unit that can be put into just about any role imaginable with the right options, model choices, and gear.

 

As for being required to use a retinue to get the most out of an Inquisitor lord, I don't see how that's an issue since rules-wise there is no way to field an Inquisitor Lord without taking a retinue anyway. As long as you're taking an Inquisitor and retinue, you might as well give them the tools to get the job done. Besides, the retinue rule is a very nice thing to have access to for any HQ, especially one without Eternal Warrior.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I think in a way we need to adapt the mindset (similar to say, Imperial Guard) where you don't think of just the "Inquisitor" as themselves, it's really "Inquisitor and Retinue" which is the real unit. The Retinue is really integral to the success or failure of the Inquisitor on the tabletop. While a Space Marine Captain can exist without a Command Squad, an Inquisitor Lord doesn't have the option until his fellows all die. Granted individual characters that are say 200 or 300 points are pretty well.. I mean we're at Archaeon or um.. Calgar or so. Buuuttt... a unit as a whole might be able to do relatively alright against just those folks by themselves. For a bit.

 

Therein lays the problem.. You are required to use the retinue to make the Inquisitor actually effective and this is a drawback from the choice in my opinion; yes you get some useful options and weapons, but it's still something that doesn't have much/any? flexibility.

How is a retinue not flexible?

 

Just because you have to take the Retinue and if you want anything out of them you need to tool them - and the Inquisitor - up to make them effective.

[Gentlemanloser]

I think in a way we need to adapt the mindset (similar to say, Imperial Guard) where you don't think of just the "Inquisitor" as themselves, it's really "Inquisitor and Retinue" which is the real unit.

 

I was. :P

 

A WH Inq Lord with Mancatcher/Chiurgeon set up will be eaten alive by a DP of Nurgle, a TWM Wolf Lord, Mpeh, or Lilith/Drazar. And many others.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I had my Retinue (admittedly not with Mancatchers, and after taking several rounds of fire and losing several casualties) go two or three combat rounds with Abaddon and still have my psyker alive at the end of the Apocalypse game, thus claiming the objective :(

 

Not that this is a common occurance really though... but you have a point. This is why I say it's use is better as a counter-charge unit than an as a main assault unit.

[Chengar Qordath]

I think in a way we need to adapt the mindset (similar to say, Imperial Guard) where you don't think of just the "Inquisitor" as themselves, it's really "Inquisitor and Retinue" which is the real unit. The Retinue is really integral to the success or failure of the Inquisitor on the tabletop. While a Space Marine Captain can exist without a Command Squad, an Inquisitor Lord doesn't have the option until his fellows all die. Granted individual characters that are say 200 or 300 points are pretty well.. I mean we're at Archaeon or um.. Calgar or so. Buuuttt... a unit as a whole might be able to do relatively alright against just those folks by themselves. For a bit.

 

Therein lays the problem.. You are required to use the retinue to make the Inquisitor actually effective and this is a drawback from the choice in my opinion; yes you get some useful options and weapons, but it's still something that doesn't have much/any? flexibility.

How is a retinue not flexible?

 

Just because you have to take the Retinue and if you want anything out of them you need to tool them - and the Inquisitor - up to make them effective.

And how does that make them different from most of the other HQ units in the game?