IC moving while leaving a unit

[Meatman]

Something that came up in the army list section, involving Shrike and infiltrating terminators. The issue is whever he has to move 6" or less the turn he leaves the unit.

 

Debate so far:

 

Me

 

BRB page 48. "An independent character can leave a unit during the movement phase by moving out of coherency distance with it". It's Shrike that moves out of coherency, and "While an independent character is part of a unit... The combined unit moves and assaults at the speed of the slowest model while they stay together". Therefore implies that Shrike can only move up to 6" while with the termies, and has to move to leave the unit. So no infiltrating the termies, then leaving for the first turn charge.

 

 

Theres a bit of contradiction here and things could be worded better for sure.

 

1. IC must obey the unit coherency rules (which are you must stay in coherency during movement)

2. IC must move at the units speed "...while they stay together"

3. IC can leave a unit by moving out of coherency

 

- Saying that you are still part of the squad until you end the turn outside 2" violates rule 1.

- "...while they stay together" on rule 2 implies that if they arent staying together the IC doesnt have movement restrictions otherwise why is that even there.

- To me rule 3 can be interpreted either way to match both sides of the argument, moving at unit speed or IC using its own movement to get outside 2".

 

1) No disagreements here

2) Again, true

3) Is he in the unit when he begins the move? Yes, therefore he has to move at the speed of the slowest unit. The next movement phase, he is no longer in the squad, so he can move at his normal speed.

 

 

The real reason I went through this was because I wasn't sure how fallout boy was disagreeing with me, so wanted to make myself perfectly clear.

 

If this still requires debating I suggest we move it over to the official rules area to not clog up this thread :lol:

 

 

 

stormsblade has put in in better words than i did

 

- Saying that you are still part of the squad until you end the turn outside 2" violates rule 1.

- "...while they stay together" on rule 2 implies that if they arent staying together the IC doesnt have movement restrictions otherwise why is that even there.

 

Thats quite right

 

The rules state: as long as an independent character is part of the unit it has to obey unit coherency

 

IC and unit count as one.

 

In order to leave the unit, IC has to move on its own, therefore IC and unit do not count as one anymore. This is proved true if you look at the rule wich states that IC´s leaving stationary units count as moved in shooting phase, while the unit counts as stationary.

 

Ergo the IC only has to move at the slowest´pace if it decides to move with the unit. I don´t see much room for other interpretations here.

 

Sorry for derailing the thread, btw ;) I just had to word up since its the first time i have seen the IC-rules interpreted thus. It has never been in question with my buddies, so i was a wee bit surprised.

 

 

Full thread here http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=216079

Was wanting to resolve the issue in the correct section to stop us derailing the thread.

 

Simply put, I think that a jump pack equipped IC can only move a max of 6" the turn he leaves a normal infantry squad, as that is the speed of the slowest model. The other side of the arguement is that he is no longer in the squad at the end of the move, therefore he can move normal speed.

[dswanick]

I agree with your assessment. Yes, rule #1 requires an IC remain in unit coherency. And while he is in unit coherency (therefore part of the unit) he must move at the speed of the slowest model. Rule #3 simply overrides Rule#1 if you have the intent to end your turn outside unit coherency for the purpose of detaching the IC from the unit he is in coherency with and therefore attached to.

[Seahawk]

I agree. It's at the end of the movement phase where you check to see his status of joined or not. Thus, only 6". Or if doing difficult terrain and you want to move him away first, it's still 2D6 pick the highest or an unrerollable Dangerous Terrain depending on whatever circumstances he's in.

[SeattleDV8]

I agree also, the other point I would like to make is that the IC couldn't split off for a first turn assault anyway

BRB FAQ:

"Q: If an independent Character is joined to a unit that is

outflanking, when can he leave the unit? (p94)

A: If an independent character is arriving from reserve

together with a unit, whether it is outflanking or not, he

cannot leave the unit during the turn it arrives. He can, of

course, leave it as normal from the following turn."

[greatcrusade08]

I agree also, the other point I would like to make is that the IC couldn't split off for a first turn assault anyway

BRB FAQ:

"Q: If an independent Character is joined to a unit that is

outflanking, when can he leave the unit? (p94)

A: If an independent character is arriving from reserve

together with a unit, whether it is outflanking or not, he

cannot leave the unit during the turn it arrives. He can, of

course, leave it as normal from the following turn."

 

This quite specifically covers ourflanks and reserves, infiltrating is a form of deployment and isnt covered by this rule.

 

I agree. It's at the end of the movement phase where you check to see his status of joined or not. Thus, only 6". Or if doing difficult terrain and you want to move him away first, it's still 2D6 pick the highest or an unrerollable Dangerous Terrain depending on whatever circumstances he's in.

 

Yes if at the end of movement an Ic is within 2" of a unit he has joined them.. there are exceptions noted in the new FAQ.. but at what point is the Ic considered to have left the unit.. its not at the end of the movement phase as such, just after either he or the unit he is with has moved.. would that be a fair assessment? aslong as they are more than 2" apart they are no longer joined (aslong as said movement happens in the movement phase)

 

heres the quotes as noted in the OP

BRB page 48. "An independent character can leave a unit during the movement phase by moving out of coherency distance with it".

 

"While an independent character is part of a unit... The combined unit moves and assaults at the speed of the slowest model while they stay together"

 

the argument here is that the mechanic of breaking coherancy means moving, he hasnt broken cohernacy until he has moved and is therefore still part of the unit for calculating his maximum move.

I can definately see the logic but its a little wrong IMO to enforce this and heres why:

 

the mechanic for moving an IC away from the unit can also work in reverse right ~(bit of an assumption, ive not got my rulebook with me)

i could move the unit away from the IC and break coherancy that way.. then when i come to move the IC he is a seperate unit and can therefore move his maximum distance.

it also works if the IC is of lesser movement than the unit, if he movbes away first the unit can then move its greater distance

 

The rule also specifically states that the moving at the slowest speed is only enforced whilst they stay together, if you declare they are moving apart then there is no restriction on thier moves

 

 

 

as a side point, and trying not to go off topic, things like the slaanesh daemon power pavane of slaanesh is a shooting attack that can be used to move ICs away from units.

If breaking coherancy can only be done during movement, if the IC is charged can the unit he 'was' with react to the charge even though they could be up to 12" away.. my feeling is yes aslong as they are still considered a whole unit

[Grey Mage]

as a side point, and trying not to go off topic, things like the slaanesh daemon power pavane of slaanesh is a shooting attack that can be used to move ICs away from units.

If breaking coherancy can only be done during movement, if the IC is charged can the unit he 'was' with react to the charge even though they could be up to 12" away.. my feeling is yes aslong as they are still considered a whole unit

Except that an IC cant be removed from the unit- the unit is not allowed to break coherency with Pavane or Lash, and the IC is part of the unit at that time.

 

Even if you could move him more than 2" away from the unit, we still check to see where they are at the end of the movement phase.... so hed be part of the unit for shooting, morale, and assaults all as normal.

 

The problem with moving away from the unit that while the intent seems rather clear from reading it overall- the character moves as normal for his unit type, and leaves the unit by being more than 2" away from it....

 

I think the key is in the first bulleted paragraph.... where it talks about player intent. If you Intend for them to be joined to a unit it must be within 2" at the end of the move. If you dont 'intend' for them to be with the squad it would appear that theyre not- they just have to be more than 2" away so its 'clear to your opponent'.

[shatter]

One can argue that if an IC model is at maximum coherency of 2" (which is allowed (up to 2")), he can move at full speed (in selected directions) as all of his move is out of coherency. Elegant? Ha! No.

 

I'm a little disconcerted by the whole thing as I was in the process of making jp priests (3) to go with my assault terminator squad with the intention of jumping behind enemy lines to force 'no retreat' deaths while the squad greater assaulted.

 

Please guys, carry on giving me a firm ground to assure communicable understanding.

[greatcrusade08]

"While an independent character is part of a unit... The combined unit moves and assaults at the speed of the slowest model while they stay together"

 

emphasis mine, if you declare hes leaving the unit, they wont be staying together and he therefore doesnt have to follow the rule of moving at the slowest speed.

Only if the unit stays together does the rule come into effect

[shatter]

I was in agreement with you, friend. The issue was the opinion of the others. Further:

 

"While an independent character is part of a unit... The combined unit moves and assaults at the speed of the slowest model while they stay together"

[dswanick]

An independent character can leave a unit during the Movement phase by moving out of coherency distance with it.

This is the only way the rules allow an IC to leave a squad. The IC is given permission to ignore unit coherency to move away from the unit, the unit may not move away from the IC. As such a Jump Pack equipped IC starts out attached to a non-Jump Pack unit. He must move outside the 2" coherency "bubble" with the intent to leave the unit. This allows him to ignore the unit coherency rule for this move, but he still must move at the speed of the slowest model in the unit as until he is outside the 2" bubble he has not yet detached from the unit.

[shatter]

So, a jp IC model in a stormraven can only disembark and move 6" if the rest of the cargo was regular infantry?

 

Rediculous.

 

Anyway, it comes back to what I said above; at max coherency of 2" any move can be out of coherency ergo, it's not part of the unit at any point in it's movement.

 

I think you're taking the statement too far out of context. It needs the second part of the management of the rule, ie. ICs needing to be up to 2" at the end of movement to be considered attached.

 

Which means, a jp IC attached to a non jp unit cannot move 12 and remain attached to the unit. It suggests nothing more than this IMO.

[greatcrusade08]

An independent character can leave a unit during the Movement phase by moving out of coherency distance with it.

This is the only way the rules allow an IC to leave a squad. The IC is given permission to ignore unit coherency to move away from the unit, the unit may not move away from the IC. As such a Jump Pack equipped IC starts out attached to a non-Jump Pack unit. He must move outside the 2" coherency "bubble" with the intent to leave the unit. This allows him to ignore the unit coherency rule for this move, but he still must move at the speed of the slowest model in the unit as until he is outside the 2" bubble he has not yet detached from the unit.

 

but this still doesnt answer the fact that the rules for moving atr slowest speed are only if the unit stays together.. its RAW.. if you move the IC away from the unit he doesnt have to obey this rule and can therefore move his maximum distance.

Since you have to move the Ic first (as you pointed out), it makes it the more clearer.

[dswanick]

An independent character can leave a unit during the Movement phase by moving out of coherency distance with it.

This is the only way the rules allow an IC to leave a squad. The IC is given permission to ignore unit coherency to move away from the unit, the unit may not move away from the IC. As such a Jump Pack equipped IC starts out attached to a non-Jump Pack unit. He must move outside the 2" coherency "bubble" with the intent to leave the unit. This allows him to ignore the unit coherency rule for this move, but he still must move at the speed of the slowest model in the unit as until he is outside the 2" bubble he has not yet detached from the unit.

 

but this still doesnt answer the fact that the rules for moving atr slowest speed are only if the unit stays together.. its RAW.. if you move the IC away from the unit he doesnt have to obey this rule and can therefore move his maximum distance.

Since you have to move the Ic first (as you pointed out), it makes it the more clearer.

You would have to show me a rule in the book (page number is sufficient) that permits him to ignore the "move at the speed of the slowest member of the unit to which he is currently attached" prohibition.

He is attached to the unit until he has moved more than 2" away from the unit. He must adhere to the slowest move of the unit until he is not attached. He may only make one move per turn, so he must move at the speed of the slowest in the unit to which he is attached and end up more than 2" away from the unit. Only then is he no longer attached to the unit, but at this point it is too late for him to make a movement of more than the speed of the slowest in the unit because he has already moved.

[Fallout Boy]

As far as i can see the debate has concentrated on this question: When do you check if IC and squad are one unit, at the beginning of the movement phase, or at its end?

 

Since the IC is allowed to move seperately -as otherwise he just wouldn´t be able to break unit coherency in the first place - i think it solid to assume the above mentioned check is made at the beginning of the IC´s movement phase.

[shatter]

As far as i can see the debate has concentrated on this question: When do you check if IC and squad are one unit, at the beginning of the movement phase, or at its end?

 

Since the IC is allowed to move seperately -as otherwise he just wouldn´t be able to break unit coherency in the first place - i think it solid to assume the above mentioned check is made at the beginning of the IC´s movement phase.

 

pg 48 & 67, I think, are quite arguably at odds with this. At the very most A check is made to adhere to the second quote below.

 

48

 

"In order to join a unit, ... 2"... end of their movement phase"

 

"while an [iC] is part of a unit, he must obey usual coherency rules. The combined unit moves and assaults at the speed of the slowest model while they stay together." (ergo, while they don't stay together, this does not hold!)

 

"An [iC] can leave a unit during the movement phase by moving out of coherency with it"

 

The only lock to a joined IC is established at the end of the phase. If a player's resulting movement places the IC to remain with a previously joined unit then he can only have moved as per the second quote, as the slowest model speed.

 

67

 

"If an independent character (or even more than one) and a unit are both embarked in the same vehicle, they are automatically joined, just as if the character was within 2" of the unit. ... The unit and the independent character may, in a later movement phase, disembark together as a single unit. They can also disembark separately by either the unit or the characters disembarking at the same time using different access points (but they must end their move more than 2" away from each other). If the vehicle has yet to move, both unit and characters can disembark together and in coherency, but then the characters can leave the unit as they move, as normal."

 

This makes no reference at all to the slowest model speed clause being held when an IC leaves a unit. In fact, it suggests normal movement... whatever that means.

 

*chuckle*

 

 

I've seen the 'keeping it simple' flag being waved by GW many times in the FAQs and complex unit management (mode scores being used over each sample) and so forth and I feel that limiting an IC's speed when leaving a unit to be at odds with this as much as it seems, in my eyes, at odds with the brb itself.

[greatcrusade08]

You would have to show me a rule in the book (page number is sufficient) that permits him to ignore the "move at the speed of the slowest member of the unit to which he is currently attached" prohibition.

He is attached to the unit until he has moved more than 2" away from the unit. He must adhere to the slowest move of the unit until he is not attached. He may only make one move per turn, so he must move at the speed of the slowest in the unit to which he is attached and end up more than 2" away from the unit. Only then is he no longer attached to the unit, but at this point it is too late for him to make a movement of more than the speed of the slowest in the unit because he has already moved.

 

shatter makes the case quite convincingly.. the quote your using to back up this "slowest member of the squad" only holds true if the squad and IC remain together (actual quote "whilst they remain together")

basically you only count the IC as part of the unit of you intend to keep him with the unit..

 

i understand the counter point of argument but it makes no practical sense, nor does it explain why the BRB establishes a difference between staying together or not.. if your argument were true most of the rule is uneccessary and confusing.

 

"while an [iC] is part of a unit, he must obey usual coherency rules. The combined unit moves and assaults at the speed of the slowest model while they stay together."

 

Lets dissect the quote that makes up your entire argument...

The whole quote is dependant on the IC being part of the unit.. he must obey coherancy and must move at slowest speed.

 

since there is no practical way for him to be both part of the unit and then not in the same movement phase this rule is purely intended to cover ICs who wish to stay with thier unit..

The next quote

"An [iC] can leave a unit during the movement phase by moving out of coherency with it"

Shows the mechanic for an IC leaving a unit, note it doesnt limit his movement in this rule..

 

so the top rule for is those ICs staying with thier unit, the bottom is for those leaving.. you cant combine the two im afraid as you cant both obey and break coherancy...

[dswanick]

I fail to see the distinction some of you guys are making. Here's the scenario : Your IC is within 2" of a unit, therefore the IC is attached to the unit. The IC is Jump Infantry and may move 12" in his movement phase, whilest the unit is Infantry and may only move 6".

• While an independent character is part of a unit, he must obey the usual coherency rules. The combined unit moves and assaults at the speed of the slowest model while they stay together.

At this point, I believe, we are all on the same page as regards to the ICs inability to move more than 6" or move more than 2" away from the other unit's models. Correct? So you decide that you want your IC to detach from the unit and strike out on his own.

In his turn, a player may move any of his units - all of them if he wishes - up to their maximum movement distance. Once a unit has completed all of its movement, the player selects another unit and moves that one, and so on, until the player has moved all of the units he wishes to move. Note that a player doesn't have to move all (or indeed any) of his units. A unit that doesn't move isoften more effective at shooting, as we will explain later in the rules. Once you have started moving a unit, you must finish its move before you start to move another unit. You may not go back and change the move already made by a previous unit.

This quote shows that by selecting the IC as the unit you wish to move you may move the IC up to 6" as per the above two quotes. So normally the IC would only be able to move 6" and not move more than 2" from any other model in the unit.

• An independent character can leave a unit during the Movement phase by moving out of coherency distance with it.

OK, so we're also in agreement that this rule gives permission for the IC to leave the unit by moving away, thus ignoring the rule stating that the IC must maintain unit coherency. Correct? If so, then we can ignore the case where the unit moves, leaving the IC behind and outside 2" of the unit.

So, as of right now the IC may break unit coherency rules, but I see nothing stating that he may break maximum movement restrictions. Instead we have an IC who is within 2" of the unit(therefore at this moment is still part of the unit), and an intent to end up more than 2" away from the unit for the purpose of detaching from the unit(which by the above rule gives us permission to move the IC farther than 2" from the unit thereby ignoring the coherency restrictions). However, no rule has given us permission to ignore the rule that the IC must move at the speed of the slowest model of the unit he is still currently attached to and within 2" of. At the end of the ICs movement which according the quote of Pg.11 was set as a maximum of 6" because of the rule about moveing at the speed of the slowest unit member. No matter how you slice it, the IC starts in coherency with the unit and within 2" of the unit and must therefore move a maximum of 6" in the move that takes him away from the unit and therefore detaches him from the unit.

Unless there is something I've missed.

[greatcrusade08]

yup i think youve missed a couple of things..

 

firstly he doesnt get to break coheranacy rules.. he gets to leave the unit.. big difference (the mechanic is moving out of coherancy).

 

secondly is a misunderstanding of the following quote

While an independent character is part of a unit, he must obey the usual coherency rules. The combined unit moves and assaults at the speed of the slowest model while they stay together.

 

Is he part of the unit.. for arguments sake lets say he is at the beggining of the turn.

is he obeying coherancy rules... nope hes leaving the unit

is he staying together with the unit.. nope hes leaving the unit.

 

emphasis on the word Stay..

 

the above quote only works for ICs that stay with thier units..

 

An independent character can leave a unit during the Movement phase by moving out of coherency distance with it.

its a minor distinction to make, but this rule doesnt say you can break coherancy rules, it says leave the unit by.. (mechanic goes here).

 

you have to free yourslef of this mindset that the rule covers every eventuality, it clearly doesnt apply here.. the unit and IC arent staying together.. therefore the rule cannot be enforced in this situation

[greatcrusade08]

since we are discussing it and i dont have my BRB handy.. where does it say he is joined with a unit at the beggining of the movement phase.. at the end of each phase the 2" check is made to see if hes with a unit, which suggests at the start of each movement phase he could be considered a free radical of sorts..

is there a quote to back this up either way?

[Fallout Boy]

at the end of each phase the 2" check is made to see if hes with a unit

 

thus it is written in the rulebook, pg. 48 (at least the german version)

 

where does it say he is joined with a unit at the begining of the movement phase

 

nowhere, but see below

 

Two more things to think of:

 

1. If the act of separation would be the moment you check if the IC is within 2" or not, the same would have to be applied for joining units, since it is determined in the exact same way. The consequence would be, that the IC could only move at the slowest´ pace from the unit he wants to join. So no 12" for a jump pack IC who wants to join regular infantry. As far as i can see, none of the above posters advocate this. Yet, it would apply the same logic.

 

2. As long as the IC stays with a unit, it is forced to obey unit coherency; there is no way around it, at least not in the movement phase. If they start out together as one, IC would never get the opportunity to leave the unit, since it is forced to adhere to coherency.. yet, IC´s are allowed to leave units.

 

firstly he doesnt get to break coheranacy rules.. he gets to leave the unit.. big difference (the mechanic is moving out of coherancy).

 

thats the way to see it

 

Is he part of the unit.. for arguments sake lets say he is at the beginning of the turn.

is he obeying coherancy rules... nope hes leaving the unit

is he staying together with the unit.. nope hes leaving the unit.

 

in the end, it doesn´t matter, if you assume IC and unit don´t start their movement phase together, if the IC is intended to leave the unit or if you assume that the IC is allowed to break the coherency rule when it wants to leave the unit. I started out advocating the first option, but once GC08 has put it in clear words, i think his sight is more in tune with the mechanism of the rules. My original sight of the things somewhat ignores the fact that IC and unit do start out together "physically" at the beginning of the turn.

[dswanick]

since we are discussing it and i dont have my BRB handy.. where does it say he is joined with a unit at the beggining of the movement phase.. at the end of each phase the 2" check is made to see if hes with a unit, which suggests at the start of each movement phase he could be considered a free radical of sorts..

is there a quote to back this up either way?

This is an easy one.

• In order to join a unit, an independent character simply has to move so that he is within the 2" coherency distance of a friendly unit at the end of their Movement phase. If the character is within 2" of more than one unit at the end of its Movement phase, the player must declare which unit it is Joining. If a character does not intend to (or cannot ) join a unit, it must remain more than 2" away from it at the end of the Movement phase. This is to make clear to the opponent if the

character has joined a unit or not. Note that after a character joins a unit, that unit may move no further that Movement phase.

If your hypothesis were correct the last line of this rule would prevent any unit with an attached IC from ever moving.

[dswanick]

at the end of each phase the 2" check is made to see if hes with a unit

 

thus it is written in the rulebook, pg. 48 (at least the german version)

Yeah, I don't see that anywhere in the English version of the book.

 

I think the big impediment to a conclusion in this debate is that the rules can be interpreted in two ways :

icm = IC Movement restricted

uc = restricted by unit coherency

sm = restricted by moving as slow as the slowest member in the unit

 

1> icm = us OR sm

2> icm = uc AND sm

 

In GC08, et al.'s view #2 is modified to be IC Movement restricted = NOT restricted by unit coherency AND restricted by moving as slow as the slowest member in the unit thus

icm = NOT uc AND sm icm = NOT (true) AND (true) = false

while my position is that IC Movement restricted = NOT restricted by unit coherency OR restricted by moving as slow as the slowest member in the unit thus

icm = NOT (true) OR (true) = true

I see what you guys are saying but I think that position reads to much RAI into the RAW. My reading of the rule is that it takes more than intent to break the attached connection, it requires intent and movement outside 2" of the unit to sever the connection - at which point it is too late for the IC to claim full movement which was reduced by the slower members in the unit. But since my LGG doesn't play 100% RAW, we don't really have to worry to much about this. For us intent is sufficient.

[greatcrusade08]

• In order to join a unit, an independent character simply has to move so that he is within the 2" coherency distance of a friendly unit at the end of their Movement phase. If the character is within 2" of more than one unit at the end of its Movement phase, the player must declare which unit it is Joining. If a character does not intend to (or cannot ) join a unit, it must remain more than 2" away from it at the end of the Movement phase. This is to make clear to the opponent if the

character has joined a unit or not. Note that after a character joins a unit, that unit may move no further that Movement phase.

If your hypothesis were correct the last line of this rule would prevent any unit with an attached IC from ever moving.

 

not at all.. if the test is at the end of the phase then it wouldnt mater what so ever.

 

you still havent adressed my argument though, the unit doesnt stay together therefore the rule cannot address the situation

[dswanick]

• In order to join a unit, an independent character simply has to move so that he is within the 2" coherency distance of a friendly unit at the end of their Movement phase. If the character is within 2" of more than one unit at the end of its Movement phase, the player must declare which unit it is Joining. If a character does not intend to (or cannot ) join a unit, it must remain more than 2" away from it at the end of the Movement phase. This is to make clear to the opponent if the

character has joined a unit or not. Note that after a character joins a unit, that unit may move no further that Movement phase.

If your hypothesis were correct the last line of this rule would prevent any unit with an attached IC from ever moving.

 

not at all.. if the test is at the end of the phase then it wouldnt mater what so ever.

 

you still havent adressed my argument though, the unit doesnt stay together therefore the rule cannot address the situation

So you are claiming that at the start of each movement phase IC and unit no longer count as attached until the end of the phase when you check to see if the unit is within 2"? OK, here's another rule that doesn't work going by that assessment.

SLOW AND PURPOSEFUL - Models with this special rule are relentless (see above). However, they always count as moving through difficult terrain (including in assaults). Remember that a slow and purposeful independent character will cause any unit he joins to move at his speed (and vice versa) as units have to move at the speed of the slowest model.

So if the unit and the IC don't test for attached until the end of the movement phase, and after attaching the unit may not move any more then there is no need to specify the unit be required to move at the speed of the relentless IC.

[greatcrusade08]

stop twisting and get back on topic.. that rule would never stop a unit from moving period only once the IC joined.

as you have said (and i havent disagreed with) the IC is part of the unit to begin with

 

the crux of this argument is this quote

While an independent character is part of a unit, he must obey the usual coherency rules. The combined unit moves and assaults at the speed of the slowest model while they stay together.

 

This rule relies on the Ic staying as part of the unit.. f your interpreting it to cover anything else then its not RAW..