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What do you want in the next "Codex: Chaos Space Marines" ?

maverike_prime

By maverike_prime
in + HERETIC ASTARTES +

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subtlebrush Novitiate

subtlebrush

Posted
Posted

I'm definitely on the band wagon for bringing back a Lieutenant character with 2 wounds. Yes their Chaos but a lot of them still do things like their loyalist counter parts. There are still levels of ascension amongst the ranks and I do miss having the Lieutenant option. A nicer selection of psychic powers would be nice as well. Not looking for free powers like Codex Librarians but a nicer selection that wont make him cost as much as a land raider and be less deadly.... (that might be a bit of a hike but you get my point). And as I've mentioned before VETERAN SKILLS.

 

Once last thing, how about stealing the options for the Daemon Princes from Daemons Of Chaos? It amazes me that both of these books were written by the same people. To be honest the current Chaos list feels like its one of the "get you by" PDF lists like the Blood Angles had been for that period of time. Like as if its still in development if you get my drift. It doesn't seem nearly as polished or slaved over as the book deserves.

Lady_Canoness Veteran

Lady_Canoness

Posted
Posted

Yes, the Chaos Marines should move away from the 'hard-ware' approach of the Space Marines who have all the fancy new tech and gear, and move closer to a 'warp-ware' that shows what they have been up to in the Eye of Terror for the past 10,000 years.

 

To that end, I would put forward these ideas for your consideration:

 

1) Allow us to have a Warp portal/rift similar to the Ulthwé Wraithgate from the Eye of Terror codex. It could be wargear carried by a character (either IC or upgrade character) and allow you to open a portal so any reserves (lets say only dreadnoughts & infantry) can come on the table as if summoned or some other dark magical means. Let the space marines keep their drop pods and landing craft - we have warp powers!

 

2) Give daemonic units or characters that use the warp some means of actually expressing that they use the warp! A synergy between sorcerers and daemonic units (such as possessed and daemons gaining special minor abilities when a chaos psyker is on the table) would be brilliant! As would our daemonic units being able to affect and attack enemy psykers in some means other than axe->face.

 

3) Characters, Chosen, and Chosen Terminators should have something that points to the fact that they are favoured by gods instead of just fellow mortals. It could be as simple as inv. saves or giving them access to minor daemonic abilities. These people are Champions of *Chaos* not champions of men.

 

4) I would opt to erradicate the similarities between Chaos Marine and Space Marine combat doctrines even moreso than they are now. Make unit upgrades more liberal so that Chaos Marine squads are more like a group of Chaos Marines that happen to follow a champion (or champions) around instead of forming an organized unit. Weapon restrictions should be lifted (i.e. You can take a load of specialist close combat gear in a troops squad, but you pay for each and every one). Our Elites will supposedly be more 'chaosy' than troops, so don't need access to more kit to make them special.

 

5) Allow Cultists or 'lesser' Chaos Marines (maybe newly turned traitors?) as a mixable unit (yes, Clutists and traitor space marines in a one unit) and as a seperate troops choice from the more hardcore Chaos Marines (members of the original legions).

 

That is what comes to my mind at the mo - but the general trend should place emphasis on the 'Chaos' part. You'll notice I call them Chaos Marines instead of Chaos Space Marines.

 

-L_C

AoC Novitiate

AoC

Posted
Posted
Yeah I reckon Veteran skills should be returned, as I felt the extra attack a Chaos Marine has over their loyalist counter parts poorly reflected their awesome experience.

 

 

Veteran skills also poorly do it. WS and BS 5 would be better. And 2 wounds and 2 attacks.

AoC Novitiate

AoC

Posted
Posted
Yeah I reckon Veteran skills should be returned, as I felt the extra attack a Chaos Marine has over their loyalist counter parts poorly reflected their awesome experience.

 

 

Veteran skills also poorly do it. WS and BS 5 would be better. And 2 wounds and 2 attacks and 5+ inv.

Alys Veteran

Alys

Posted
Posted

I wouldn't think that most warbands would use warp gates, especially as being chaos, you can guess you will have to roll to see if the reserve troops get turned into mulch on arrival.

 

I wonder if there could be warp based weapons, that feed off the warp to produce devestating effects, or daemon powered vehicles and weapons, all things that would come to light in 10k years inside the eye of terror.

Brother Nihm Venerable Brother

Brother Nihm

Posted
Posted
Yeah I reckon Veteran skills should be returned, as I felt the extra attack a Chaos Marine has over their loyalist counter parts poorly reflected their awesome experience.

 

 

Veteran skills also poorly do it. WS and BS 5 would be better. And 2 wounds and 2 attacks and 5+ inv.

Seriously Sir, you are not suggesting that Chaos Marines actually be represented as they are in the fluff, on the TABLE TOP!?

 

Outrageous I say! :)

Khestra the Unbeheld Veteran

Khestra the Unbeheld

Posted
Posted
I wonder if there could be warp based weapons, that feed off the warp to produce devestating effects, or daemon powered vehicles and weapons, all things that would come to light in 10k years inside the eye of terror.

 

3.5 was here, Kai gun says "Yo." :)

Boshea Veteran

Boshea

Posted
Posted
Yeah I reckon Veteran skills should be returned, as I felt the extra attack a Chaos Marine has over their loyalist counter parts poorly reflected their awesome experience.

 

 

Veteran skills also poorly do it. WS and BS 5 would be better. And 2 wounds and 2 attacks and 5+ inv.

Seriously Sir, you are not suggesting that Chaos Marines actually be represented as they are in the fluff, on the TABLE TOP!?

 

Outrageous I say! :)

Warriors of chaos in power armor. I.E. Berserker stat line as our basic unit.

Sangneur Battle-Brother

Sangneur

Posted
Posted
Yeah I reckon Veteran skills should be returned, as I felt the extra attack a Chaos Marine has over their loyalist counter parts poorly reflected their awesome experience.

 

 

Veteran skills also poorly do it. WS and BS 5 would be better. And 2 wounds and 2 attacks and 5+ inv.

Seriously Sir, you are not suggesting that Chaos Marines actually be represented as they are in the fluff, on the TABLE TOP!?

 

Outrageous I say! :)

 

I don't know about this.... I like to think that our rank and file chaos space marines are no more powerful than that of the lap-dog astartes, whereas our chosen should be represented with such a stat-line. How long could an original traitor bumble about as a lowly grunt? The gods would have his head for more than a few decades. The original traitors are likely lords themselves now. Kroeger and Honsou were both of captaincy (leaders of their companies, I'm unsure of their rank) and Kroeger was a lineman in the heresy if I recall correctly.

 

I wonder though: are veteran skills the way to go? They get the job done, but they seem kinda sloppy, like a band-aid fix.

RapatoR Veteran

RapatoR

Posted
Posted
Yes, the Chaos Marines should move away from the 'hard-ware' approach of the Space Marines who have all the fancy new tech and gear, and move closer to a 'warp-ware' that shows what they have been up to in the Eye of Terror for the past 10,000 years.

 

To that end, I would put forward these ideas for your consideration:

 

1) Allow us to have a Warp portal/rift similar to the Ulthwé Wraithgate from the Eye of Terror codex. It could be wargear carried by a character (either IC or upgrade character) and allow you to open a portal so any reserves (lets say only dreadnoughts & infantry) can come on the table as if summoned or some other dark magical means. Let the space marines keep their drop pods and landing craft - we have warp powers!

 

2) Give daemonic units or characters that use the warp some means of actually expressing that they use the warp! A synergy between sorcerers and daemonic units (such as possessed and daemons gaining special minor abilities when a chaos psyker is on the table) would be brilliant! As would our daemonic units being able to affect and attack enemy psykers in some means other than axe->face.

 

3) Characters, Chosen, and Chosen Terminators should have something that points to the fact that they are favoured by gods instead of just fellow mortals. It could be as simple as inv. saves or giving them access to minor daemonic abilities. These people are Champions of *Chaos* not champions of men.

 

4) I would opt to erradicate the similarities between Chaos Marine and Space Marine combat doctrines even moreso than they are now. Make unit upgrades more liberal so that Chaos Marine squads are more like a group of Chaos Marines that happen to follow a champion (or champions) around instead of forming an organized unit. Weapon restrictions should be lifted (i.e. You can take a load of specialist close combat gear in a troops squad, but you pay for each and every one). Our Elites will supposedly be more 'chaosy' than troops, so don't need access to more kit to make them special.

 

5) Allow Cultists or 'lesser' Chaos Marines (maybe newly turned traitors?) as a mixable unit (yes, Clutists and traitor space marines in a one unit) and as a seperate troops choice from the more hardcore Chaos Marines (members of the original legions).

 

That is what comes to my mind at the mo - but the general trend should place emphasis on the 'Chaos' part. You'll notice I call them Chaos Marines instead of Chaos Space Marines.

 

-L_C

But what about Marines and legions that dont embrace chos so much (Alpha legion?)

TheDarkApostle Venerable Brother

TheDarkApostle

Posted
Posted
I don't know about this.... I like to think that our rank and file chaos space marines are no more powerful than that of the lap-dog astartes, whereas our chosen should be represented with such a stat-line. How long could an original traitor bumble about as a lowly grunt? The gods would have his head for more than a few decades. The original traitors are likely lords themselves now. Kroeger and Honsou were both of captaincy (leaders of their companies, I'm unsure of their rank) and Kroeger was a lineman in the heresy if I recall correctly.

To quote the 3,5 'dex:

 

"These are the men who have lead armies of their own and sacked entire planets for the sake of their dark gods."

 

The actual wording might be off as I don't have my 'dex at hand right now.

 

TDA

Frater Uriah Veteran

Frater Uriah

Posted
Posted
But what about Marines and legions that dont embrace chos so much (Alpha legion?)

RapatoR, check back a few pages to Dammeron's posts on this thread. He had some interesting ideas as well for the CSMs who don't necessarily go flat-out in service to the Chaos Gods.

Alys Veteran

Alys

Posted
Posted

Argh! Double Post, sorry.

 

I can see both sides of the argument with Chaos. The current codex is too plain and too set in it's ways to make anything unique to people's warbands or legions, but what people want is a codex that will become the sandbox of all codexes, allowing the players of Chaos to make anything their hearts desire, from marines goading a daemon army into war or marines heading heretics into battle, to "We rebel against the Imperium, but not against the Emperor" renegade groups, including the big four and the two legions in between.

 

The thing is, is that possible?

 

With the last SM codex, yeah. I loved that you could make a chapter using traits, and hated that it was gone in the new codex. Maybe something similar, would be perfect. Allow people to make warbands, that include traits that make them unique.... Stealth, Infiltration, Daemon Mastery, Heretic Worshipers... and then negative traits to balance, like lack of vehicles (Alpha Legion might prefer not to use vehicles, and rely on infiltration), fickle gods, warp weakness, etc.

Khestra the Unbeheld Veteran

Khestra the Unbeheld

Posted
Posted
3.5 was here, Kai gun says "Yo." :P

 

Not read that codex... is it actually worth picking up the older codexes (and if so, which ones? 3.5?)

 

If you want to truly see the scope of the treachery that the current CSM Codex is, then yes, pick up 3.5 and bathe in the relentless wrath that will stream from your pores even as your soul laments in torment neverending at the beauty that once was and is no longer. ^_^

the jeske Venerable Brother

the jeske

Posted
Posted
Not read that codex... is it actually worth picking up the older codexes (and if so, which ones? 3.5?)

 

dont do it to yourself man , if you never seen the 3.5 dex dont read it . you will feel bad after reading.

Captain Idaho Venerable Brother

Captain Idaho

Posted
Posted
I'll have to find out what codex that is. The dark red bordered one featuring a CSM's scared face? I think that 2nd edition is "Codex Chaos", with Abbadon... right?

 

Lord no! Do not buy the Codex with that terrible picture of a scared CSM face on it (it's 3rd edition)! Buy the one with the Black Legionaires on it (3.5). The one with Abbadon standing infront a massive firestorm is 2nd edition.

 

Have to agree with the jeske though, you will lament reading through the 3.5 Codex...

Kevlarshark Venerable Brother

Kevlarshark

Posted
Posted

Here we go...Purely wish listing ;)

 

I would like Lords, Deamon princes and Sorcerers to affect the force org chart a bit.

 

So if the Lord a Jumpack/bike/Terminator armour then one unit of raptors/bikers/termies could be chosen as troops. This could be done with the marks/ cult troops too so they would be cheaper or buffed if the Lord has the same mark.

 

If a Sorcerer was chosen then Deamons would be easier to summon or allow you a reroll to represent his pacts with deamons or foresight.

 

The DP would make one squad of possessed a troops choice and maybe give the whole army 'stubborn' (while he lives) to represent the awe/fear his underling chaos marines have for him.

 

Chosen need to be a bit better... WS5 and ability to choose vet skills would be nice.

 

Cult Terminators please!

 

Beserkers allowed to have assault weapons (Karn uses a flamer in the fluff).

 

Noise marines need some more cool kit (I like the idea of rending vibro-blades) and a points rethink.

 

A cultist troops choice would be cool.

 

Raptors need hit and run.

 

Noise marine havocs.

 

Some more chaosy weapon options one the pred and landraider just to make them a bit different.

 

A customiseable deamon engine would be very cool.

 

I would really like a return of marks for vehicles too!

 

And finally Daemons, proper ones!

 

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