What do you want in the next "Codex: Chaos Space Marines" ?

[Xeonic]

Oh, all codexes with out of date termies except the chaos dex got updated(DA/BT) replacing their wargear entries with Relentless. Sucks to be us.

Therefor, they don't benefit from Relentless. This is true. However, Terminator armor, as every other piece of wargear in every single codex in the chaos codex does get a relentless type rule allowing them to fire heavy and rapidfire weapons on the move and then assault. If your gaming group is ignoring armory wargear entries as "just fluff" how do you even play the game?

 

Codex: Chaos space marines p.84

"...A model armed with lightning claws only recieves the bonus attack for an additional close combat weapon if armed with a pair of lightning claws. Lightning claws ignore armor saves and reroll any failed to-wound dice that fail to cause a wound"

 

Of course that doesn't help you if your opponents are ignoring wargear entries as just fluff(I'd ask if SW runic armor gives a save vs psychic powers if the wargear entry is just fluff). Lightning claws are also covered on P.42(the function the same way in that entry) of the BRB, but a codex wargear entry should override this anyways.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

I also disgaree with the RAW ruling about Warp Time making you reroll all saves. But my disagreeing with the rule doesn't mean I can ignore it.

 

Excuse me, what? ;)

[maverike_prime]

Oh, all codexes with out of date termies except the chaos dex got updated(DA/BT) replacing their wargear entries with Relentless. Sucks to be us.

Therefor, they don't benefit from Relentless. This is true. However, Terminator armor, as every other piece of wargear in every single codex in the chaos codex does get a relentless type rule allowing them to fire heavy and rapidfire weapons on the move and then assault. If your gaming group is ignoring armory wargear entries as "just fluff" how do you even play the game?

 

With supreme annoyance on my part. Of course to be fair, one of the major disjoints between myself and just about everyone else at the store is most of them play 40-50 games a month. I'm lucky to get in 6 games a year. So there is a considerable amount of resentment toward my rather novice skills at the game.

[maverike_prime]

I also disgaree with the RAW ruling about Warp Time making you reroll all saves to-hit. But my disagreeing with the rule doesn't mean I can ignore it.

 

Excuse me, what? ;)

 

yeah. Warp time psychic power. Page 88 Codex Chaos Space marines:

 

The Power is used at the start of any player's turn. If successful, the psyker may re-roll ALL rolls to hit and rolls to wound for the entirety of that player's turn.

 

So RAW says if I roll 5 attacks, make 4 of them, if I want to re-roll that 1 miss I have to pick up all five of my dice and roll them again, not just that one.

 

Is that how the rule was intended? Oh I sure as hell hope not. But given the bunch of Rule Lawyer Nazi's that are my only option for opponents, look what I get to contend with.

[Xeonic]

That's an ongoing argument, however my view on that is that since it says "may" implying a choice, you can select.

Nevermind that the BRB blurb(p2) on rerolls also says you select the dice you wish to reroll.

link to rules discussion post.

[dizzy-xc]

I thought only Pairs of Lightning Claws got the reroll. Single Claws just counted as Power weapons. Or am I thinking of 4th ed?

 

Codex rules trump BRB. Therefore C:CSM LC's only get rerolls when using two. Again, the argument here is proving the rules say you can, and they do not. Sucks, cuz while I have IF, SW, DA and BT Marines, I also have a sizable force of around 4k points of Chaos Marines and they are just screwed with current codex. Fortunately, I play with a friendly group that lets me run stuff like Reaper variant Land Raiders, replacing the lascannons with Reaper Canons and increasing the troop capacity to 16. It's a nice group of players. I hate rules lawyers, rule nazis and just wont play with em. Not fun. Screw em.

[Xeonic]

I can't find the place where it says I need twinclaws to get rerolls anywhere in my trusty CSM codex(I quoted my wargear page above, says nothing except you only get an extra attack from a second claw, going on to say that lightning claws reroll to wound.). Enlighten me please?

[Brother Nihm]

There is no such place to be found in C:CSM. (i.e. you are correct in your post above - quoting the wargear entry)

 

If a model is armed with a Lightning Claw, or a pair of claws, said model may re-roll failed to wound rolls. Page 84.

 

 

Now can we please turn the discussion back to the original topic?

[dizzy-xc]

P84 only uses the plural usage of LC's for counting as power weapons and THIS is what my stupid gang of rules lawyers hits me with each time I try and use them singly. I tried to argue otherwise... believe me.

 

As for getting back on topic, my above post references the Land Raider Reaper. I'd like to see one of those.

[Alphz]

P84 only uses the plural usage of LC's for counting as power weapons and THIS is what my stupid gang of rules lawyers hits me with each time I try and use them singly. I tried to argue otherwise... believe me.

 

As for getting back on topic, my above post references the Land Raider Reaper. I'd like to see one of those.

 

Your gaming group needs to head back to english class in high school. 'Lightning claws' refers to one glove with multiple claws. "A pair of lightning claws" refers to two. At no point does the armoury section every refer to it as a lightning claw, that is just generally what happens as people struggle with the fact that a glove with multiple talons is always referred to as "claws"

 

You don't say a cat scratched me with its claw... thats just daft, unless said cat only has one claw left on one of its paws.

 

It also appears the chaos codex needs a major revamp in terms of ruling just so perschoolers can understand the wargear. Add that to the list. All in all we are suffering terribly from excessively old rules with no re FAQ which is frustrating.

[Candleshoes]

Something that I never understood was why we received a single, generic entry for our Astartes. Often, line members would have thousands of years separating them in their Legion's service, hierarchy is life when devoted to eternal war, as well as the primordial powers. It would make sense to see a unit split in the generic "Chaos Space Marine" troops entry.

 

1) Chaos Renegades - this entry would be for the renegade, newly minted, pirating, lowest on the totem pole, chaotic meat grinding recruit/replacement that makes the dark astartes warmachine go 'round, what the 4th edition codex told us make up the "strength" of Fallen Legions. They would have lower leadership, and lower weapon skill and/or ballistic skill. They would cost less and be a cheaper than a tactical marine, or our current entry, and act as a inferior line troop. Remember that high squad limit? Or past codices specials/heavies if you buy numbers in multiples? In short, the basis of the 4th edition view of the chaos crop. If the points and stats were low enough, as was the weaponry and save, GW could stretch this addition to cover many bases. They could leave it up to the players whether to view them as new Legion recruits, or even the fabled cultists of old.

 

2) Legionnaires - 10,000 years of pure, unadulterated, shuddering hatred for the corpse that makes the stars themselves dance. Armed appropriately, they would be cost appropriate, high above their loyalist counterpart, (elite infantry price range) and have a stat (or) skill profile that shows their experience and dedication to the craft of war. Make the maximum squad size smaller than 10, but allow the weapon benefits to help show their eliteness and the fact that they wage war with what they have, never at full strength. This is not meant to tread on the toes of Chosen (whose potential, role, upgrades, and application are a whole different jar of pickles) but to allow players to have a "Long War Veteran" build ... would be heaven to many. Losing at Terra isn't some past history lesson to them, this is still fresh enough to consume their soul.

 

These astartes exist, live, die, breathe, bleed and are consumed by 1 thing, the death of the emperor and the imperium for either themselves, or the dark gods. It is the single glue that binds and allows the Legions to fight with one another. No other race in 40k can claim such narrow feeling and motivation, which is a unique perspective that would be nice to see surface as a rule fit into something.

[Warsmith Aznable]

Problem is there's not much in the way of options to run them. They're not relentless so giving them a reaper is kinda a so-so option.

 

The Relentless USR says, "Relentless models can shoot with rapid fire and heavy weapons counting as stationary, even if they moved in the previous Movement Phase, and are also allowed to assault in the same turn they fire them." (page 76 of the BRB)

 

The Wargear entry for Terminator Armor in the C:CSM says, "Terminator Armor are capable of moving and firing with heavy weapons and may assault after firing rapid fire and heavy weapons." (page 86 of C:CSM)

 

Isn't that effectively the same thing?

 

I would have said yes, but a few months back I tried to use that interpretation in a game and the disagreement between myself and my opponent very quickly involved the entire store and after a bit we came to the.... assigned understanding that if the USR in question isn't applied to the unit, then the description of the wargear is fluff only and thus not a rule.

 

Terminators don't have Relentless as a rule, there for they are not capable of moving and firing heavy weapons.

 

Do I disagree with this? Oh you'd better believe it. I also disgaree with the RAW ruling about Warp Time making you reroll all saves. But my disagreeing with the rule doesn't mean I can ignore it.

 

It's these sort of little inconsistencies that irk me so much about the CSM codex.

 

It's an organizational issue with the C:CSM, with the rules and descriptions you need for a single unit existing across three (or more) different sections. To keep this on-topic, I would like to see that changed in the next C:CSM to avoid tragedies like the one described above. (Claiming a rule isn't valid because you're confused by where it is printed in the book is... STRANGE is the nicest adjective that comes to mind.) When I'm looking up rules for a unit for mid-game confirmation I will find myself flipping back and forth between the "fluff" entry, the "army list" entry, and occasionally having to dig rules out of the "Armory" section. It's frustrating, and I would like that remedied somehow. I have no constructive suggestions, just the complaint, FWIW.

[Justcar]

What would you guys think about leveled marks of chaos?

 

Level 1: Renegades (current)

 

Level 2: Legion (current + more)- makes cult options for termies etc.

 

Level 3: Chosen (Level 2 + EVEN MORE!!)- only for Special Characters and daemon princes

 

Then HQs would be able to take a legion mark that would alter FOC and give special rules...

 

Level 2 and higher have access to veteran skills?

 

How would that work in terms of mixing legions and renegades?

[Panda_]

As I want so much from the Old dex, I've a long list. Nearly everything is changed. The more important one is the lord's change, he sums up everything.

 

It's flexible in the way that we could still deploy Original Traitor Legions. We can mix some a bit (but if we mix too much, we fill the FOC too quickly). Legionnaries naturally get the edge on cult troops. You can still use Renegades (but Renegades shine with the new Equipment).

 

• HQ :
  
• Chosens
  • 1-9 figs in the unit
    
  • Bs5 Ws5 S4 T4 W1 I5 A2 Ld10 Fearless Infiltrate Retinue Prefered Ennemies
    
  • May get USR for X
    
  • Pack Leaders (see SW)
    

  [*]Greater Demon

  [*]Lord (0-1) (one full page to describe his options)

  • Provides Psychic defence
    
  • May become sorceror
    
  • May give one USR to himself, Chosens, Terminators, Raptors, Bikers, CSM, Havoks (for X points/figurine concerned)
    
  • If he doesn't give a USR, then he may become a prince demon
    
  • Get a Jump Pack (then Jump Pack units are scoring if no Khorne/Slaanesh/Nurgle/Tzeench is choosen)
    
  • Get Mark of Chaos Undivided (then Chosens are Elites)
    
  • Get Mark of Slaanesh (then Noise Marines count as troops)
    
  • Get Mark of Khorne (then Khorne Berserker count as troops)
    
  • Get Mark of Nurgle and Plague Marines count as troops)
    
  • Get Mark of Tzeench (then Thousand Sons count as troops)
    
  • Access to Demonic Armor
    

• Specific Chaos Rules :
  
• Demonic Scream : Enemy units that have been in melee with this unit suffer a -1Ld penalty (this is the old demonic visage)
  
• Mark of Slaanesh : +1I and Demonic Scream
  
• Mark of Khorne : +1A and Furious Charge
  
• Mark of Nurgle : +1T (which change Instant death) and Feel No Pain
  
• Mark of Tzeench : +1W and better Invulnerable
  
• Furious Charge (think World Bearers), Scout (think Alpha Legion), Tank Hunters (think Iron Warriors), Hit&Run (think Night Lords).
  

• Chaotic powers :
  
• Warptime : this figurine may reroll his attacks, his wounds, or his saves
  
• Fear the Darkness (like BA)
  
• New power : Plasma Canon Psychic attack (Assault 1)
  
• (Nurgle) : The target unit suffer a +1 on his armor saves
  
• (Slaanesh) : Target unit gain Prefered Ennemies
  
• (Tzeench) : 36' Anti Tank weapon
  
• (Tzeench) : Gift of Chaos
  

• Elite :
  
• Terminators
  • Fearless
    
  • May purchase Demonic Protection (4++)
    

  [*]Dreadnought

  • May get Autocanons
    
  • May ignore Insane for X points
    

  [*]Possessed

  • May purchase Wings
    
  • Revamp their rules (or roll twice, choose the result)
    

  [*]Noise Marines

  • Free sonic blasters
    
  • additional mode for Blastmasters (24' S8 Ap1 Melta Heavy2)
    

  [*]Khorne Berserkers

  • Fleet
    

  [*]Plague Marines

  • 5T basic
    

  [*]Thousand Sons

  • For their price, they need 2 wounds
    
  • Merged bolts (Divide the number of rubric's shots by 2, add 1 to strength to the remaining shots. This is applicable several times, then add 1 to the strengh if a sorceror is inside the unit)
    

• Troop :
  
• Chaos Space Marines (Legionnaries)
  • Remove Icons and Marks access
    
  • May get a Specific Chaos Rule (see lord)
    
  • Reroll Leadership
    

  [*]Chaos Space Marines (Renegade)

  • Remove Icons and Marks access
    
  • No CCW
    
  • Access to newer stuff
    

  [*]Cult troops are moved to Elites (but the Lord affect FOC)

• Fast Attack :
  
• Raptors
  • Increase special weapons numbers back to 3
    
  • Demonic Scream
    

  [*]Bikers

  • Scout
    
  • while Turbo-boosting they can perform a melee attack (think DE jetbike)
    

  [*]Hell Talon (new flyer unit, think Vendetta with Autocanons, no transports)

  [*]Demonic Cavalry (new unit)

  [*]Lesser Demons

  • May purchase marks of chaos
    

• Heavy Support :
  
• Defilers
  
• Havoks
  • Cheaper Heavy weapons (on the par with BA's Devastator)
    

  [*]Obliterator

  • Bs5, S5, T5 again, and keep 2W
    

  [*]Predators

  • Fire as if Fast Vehicule
    
  • May purchase Sonic Weaponry
    
  • May purchase Reinforced Hull (+1Av on front and side)
    

  [*]Vindicator

  • May purchase Reinforced Hull (+1Av on front and side)
    

• Transport :
  
• Dread Claw (new unit)
  • Assault Ramps
    
  • Land Raider
    • Transport capacity increased
      
    • Purchase the demonic Potms version
      
    • a Kai gun version
      
    • Rhino
      • Assault Ramps (this one is too much, just checking you're reading)
        

    • New (and old) Specific Stuff :
      
    • Khornate Axe : Armor saves against this weapon aren't better than 4+
      
    • Kai Gun
      
    • Demonic Armor (save 2+)
      

[Abyssel]

What cheeses me off, I never got to play 3.5, I picked up on the new CSM codex,

 

First thought in my mind

 

"sweet i'll be able to summon daemons"

 

come to find out they're cookie cutter daemons that suck, the greater daemons are worthless, why would anyone take these options other than to be fluffy?...

 

I'd like to see the daemons use the actual C:Daemons for stats and special rules instead of "oh those are bloodletters? well no they're not."

 

Chaos marines who can summon daemons, but somewhere a long the lines the daemons get watered down? A rose by any other name.....

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

come to find out they're cookie cutter daemons that suck, the greater daemons are worthless, why would anyone take these options other than to be fluffy?...

 

I've had fairly decent results with the generics. The GGD in particular has come as a nasty surprise to several opponents, and a run of hot dice with Lessers can tarpit someone's uber-Terminator squad for whole turns in CC, to the great frustration of the foe.

 

But nothing quite like having a Marked Champion in a Lost & Damned squad summon a pack of Bloodletters right into the middle of a troop of Howling Banshees and watching all of the Banshees die in a single round of combat. ;)

[Warsmith Aznable]

An easy fix for the Summoned Daemons might be just to let them take Marks, so Bloodletters would be the Summoned Lesser Daemon stat-line with the MoK added to it, and so on.

 

I've never used the Summoned Greater Daemon, so I have no real opinion on that. I don't use it because I don't want to give up an Aspiring Champion, but asking to get one without sacrifice doesn't seem very Chaos like, I guess.

[Abyssel]

I approve of sacing a champ for a greater demon, hell I'd sac a lord for one if it's the same as in the Daemons codex. What would be pretty cool is if you could pick like, (was reading daemonhunters codex last night) a daemonbound lord, gatta roll for his stats so he's possesed, he'd be like 100 points, but his stats could be very good or very bad, and he stays haunted until the greater daemon comes out of reserve and engulf's him as a sacrifice?

 

I'm just saiyan.

[Worldeaters]

If I could add or change anything in this editions Chaos Space Marines Codex it would have to be:

1) Khorne Berzerkers that don't horribly suck. I mean really, Berzerkers are suppost to be epic. I've tried every way to play them and they die horribly.

2) A drop pod, In the codex it says chaos have drop pods but does not let us take it.

and 3) Chaos Language(s), I personally think it would be really fun.

that's all that I think should be changed/added.

[the jeske]

Khorne Berzerkers that don't horribly suck. I mean really, Berzerkers are suppost to be epic. I've tried every way to play them and they die horribly.

 

0_o they are one of the two best and most basic units chaos uses since the codex came out . they are good . You should either play more or check if your list isnt being played/build bad.

[Phosis]

Ooooh, me me me. I want to comment.

 

Well I think I can add something that few have mentioned...

 

Chaos specific psychic powers akin to the old half-inch thick book of Minor Powers...

 

What I mean by that is, powers that don't just cause damage... but have an effect in the game that hinders the enemy or helps the chaos player.

 

Examples include: A sorcerer counting as a Locator Beacon in the beginning of his turn, making an enemy unit move in difficult terrain in their entire turn, the return of Twisting Path (I loved that power.)

[Alys]

Wasn't there... something with Judge Dread the RPG, where you rolled on a table for character creation, and if you rolled a certain number, you was a mutant, and thus was executed? It was in my childhood so I might be wrong. I kinda like that.

 

I'd like to see something a little... well wacky for Chaos, however, I want to see that as a 'side' rather than the real thing. Maybe you can pay a cheap amount of points for a free roll on the mutations table at the start of the game. 25% chance of something negative, 50% chance of something good, 25% chance of a waste of points ("Congratulations, you now have gills AND lungs!"). For the people who like to take risks, and who like to play a little more comic than the tourneys and such, you pay the points, for the people who want an army that has no risks or chances barring dice/opponents, then they can just ignore them.

[Madcap]

Sorry for some thread necromancy, but here are my thoughts (revised) on the subject.

 

Ditch the old icon system and replace with:

 

Special Rules

 

Glory to Chaos: Same as “And They Shall Know No Fear”. Applies to any non-fearless Chaos Space Marine unit (marines, bikes, raptors, chosen, termies, etc.).

 

All cult troops go back to being Elite Choices.

 

Chaos Lord (0-1): Make Lord like Space Marine Captain with the ability to modify the army.

 

Examples:

 

If on a bike, make bike squads of 5 or more count as Troop choices. (And make our bike squads cheaper in general... near or at Space Marine costs.)

 

If given a jump pack, make Raptor squads of X or more count as Troop choices.

 

World Eater Doctrine (X pts.): Lord gets Greater Mark of Khorne (+1 A, Furious Charge). Khorne Bersekers become Troop choices. Chaos Space Marine units lose Glory to Chaos and can purchase Lesser Mark of Khorne (+1 A) for X pts. per model.

 

Death Guard Doctrine (X pts.): Lord gets Greater Mark of Nurgle (+1 T, Feel No Pain, -1 I). Plague Marines become Troop choices. Chaos Space Marine units lose Glory to Chaos and can purchase Lesser Mark of Nurgle (+1 T) for X pts. per model.

 

Thousand Sons Doctrine (X pts.): Lord gets Greater Mark of Tzeentch (+1 inv. save, Eternal Warrior). Thousand Sons become Troop choices. Chaos Space Marine units lose Glory to Chaos and can purchase Lesser Mark of Tzeentch (5+ inv. Save or +1 to current inv. save) for X pts. per model.

 

Emperor’s Children Doctrine (X pts.): Lord gets Greater Mark of Slaanesh (+1 I, enemy models in base-to-base lose 1 A). Noise Marines become Troop choices. Chaos Space Marine units lose Glory to Chaos and can purchase Lesser Mark of Slaanesh (+1 I) for X pts. per model. Dreadnoughts and Predators can equip Noise Weapons.

 

Black Legion Doctrine (X pts.): Any unit the Chaos Lord joins may reroll any Ld. Test it is called upon to make. All cult troops become Troop Choices.

 

Word Bearers Doctrine (X pts.): Any unit the Chaos Lord joins becomes Fearless. Lesser Summoned Daemons can take Lesser Marks of Chaos. Any reserves roll for Lesser Summoned Daemons can be automatically failed if the player wishes.

 

Iron Warriors Doctrine (X pts.): (Similar to others... either gain/give Siege Specialist or Tank Hunter.)

 

Night Lords Doctrine (X pts.): The Chaos Lord gains Stealth and Night Vision. Any squad with the “Glory to Chaos” rule may gain Stealth and Night Vision for X pts.

 

Alpha Legion Doctrine (X pts.): The Chaos Lord gains Infiltrate. Any squad with the “Glory to Chaos” rule may gain Infiltrate for X pts. Further, when rolling for reserves, the player may reroll the reserve roll for any unit with the Infiltrate special rule.

 

Renegade Doctrine (X pts.): (Not sure. Maybe just go use a loyalist Space Marine codex.)

 

Daemon Weapons: Take away the punishing “1” result. Lots of other units in 40K get 1D6 attacks without punishment. In the alternative, just let it give +2 A (+2A and +2 S for Khorne) instead of +1D6 A.

 

Other HQ Choices

 

Daemon Prince: 0-1 choice. Make it exactly like Codex: Chaos Daemons. It will cost more, but no psychic rolls needed and can deep strike like C:CD.

 

Sorcerers: Cost the same, reduce to two wounds, and gets free powers (a la Librarian). Tzeentch sorcerer can reroll psychic test.

 

Demagogue: Chaos Chaplain, unique to Word Bearers?

 

Technomagus: Chaos Tech Marine, unique to Iron Warriors?

 

Elites: Overall, minor cost adjustments/tweaks to Terminators to make them worth taking. Chosen gain a veteran skill or otherwise closer to Sternguard. Cult troops as Elite choices will give Elites a needed boost. Either take the Crazed rule away from Dreadnought or make it occur on a 2 or 12 on a 2d6. Possessed get Lesser Marks and cost adjustments to make them worth taking.

 

Elite/Troops: Thousand Sons need a cheaper sorcerer to make the cost worth taking. Noise Marines need either cheaper units or cheaper special weapons to be worth taking. Maybe 1 Blastmaster per 5 Marines also.

 

Troops: Chaos Space Marines are awesome as is, but making Heavy Weapons worth taking would be nice (cheaper and/or allow Combat Squads). Icons become teleport homers and summoning tools. Also, can we have drop pods? Please?

 

Fast Attack: Bikes need to be cheaper. Raptors as is are decent enough, especially when you compare them to Space Marine Assault Squads. Maybe either make them cheaper or give Raptors a special ability (a fearsome scream that either reduces Ld. or I?).

 

Heavy Support: Pretty good. I’d like to see heavy weapon Havoks worth taking, but maybe that can’t happen in 5th Edition. Maybe make Obliterators 0-2 (of 1-3 in number), but give them back Heavy Bolter and/or Autocannons. Let defilers take different ranged weapons so firing anything but the battle cannon would be worthwhile. (Two reaper autocannons would be sweet. Take a regular missile launcher instead of Havok launcher.) In exchange, the extra close combat weapons would only be useful against non-vehicles (6 DCCW attacks on the charge, especially when it is Fleet, is a bit much).

 

Land Raider needs increased capacity and a daemonic version of machine spirit. Maybe make a Land Raider variant that removes sponsons for increased capacity, can replace heavy bolters for something else (Reaper AC would be cool), and has frag launchers.

 

Daemons: Allow to take Lesser Marks or let us take Troop allies from Codex: Chaos Daemons (with or without summoning rules).

 

Wargear: Can we make the Reaper AC something more than just a Twin-Linked AC? It has the name Reaper for a reason. Maybe decrease its range to 24” and become Rending? Or have three S 6 shots that are Rending. Just something to make it a worthy precursor to the Assault Cannon.

 

Also, maybe make a Greater Daemonic Possession that allows any Chaos vehicle to fire an additional weapon. That would help our Land Raider and make Predators worthwhile.

 

Sorcerers need some anti-psi wargear.

 

I think the Lord changes would be most useful, and the rest would be nice. I don't want us to become over-powered, but something closer to the power level and customization that other newer codices offer (ex. Blood Angels and Dark Eldar).

 

EDIT: Also, can we have our Chaos Lord take a retinue of Chosen like Codex: Space Marines, complete with a Greater Icon Bearer/Legion Banner Bearer or something, taking equipment like our Chaos Lord (i.e. jump packs, bikes, terminator armor)? That would be cool.

[Chaoswolf]

Dread claw drop pods. We had 'em before/during the heresy, why not now?

 

FNP for all cult troops. Here's why:

EC: Combat drugs. Have you ever tried to fight someone who is out of his mind on PCP? I had to once when I stood security in the Navy, and IT SUCKED!!! Short of shooting them in the head with a bazooka, you're not gonna bring 'em down easily.

TS: No physical bodies, they're just dust inside of a tin can. Dust bunnies don't care if they get shot. And it doesn't hurt 'em.

DG: Already have it. Good!

WE: Berserkers. From answers.com:

His (Odin's) men rushed forwards without armour, were as mad as dogs or wolves, bit their shields, and were strong as bears or wild oxen, and killed people at a blow, but neither fire nor iron told upon them. This was called Berserkergang.[5]

 

Notice the part "but neither fire nor iron told upon them". And that's without armor. Why should genetically altered (and mutated by this point) super-men WITH armor be bothered by a scratch from a guardsmens bayonet?

 

 

Do something to make the original nine legions something other than black/blu-green/metallic chaos marines.

Basically, I agree with just about everything that has already been mentioned here.

 

 

If we can can something that's somewhere between the awesomeness of the 3.5 'dex, and the utter drek that we have now, I'd consider it an improvement.

[Brother Nathan]

although by the same point, pretty much most units in the game should have fnp too... so id prefer it wasnt continually handed round and was justkept to medic only guys. im gussin that everyone agrees that bile should give fnp to his squad for example...