What do you want in the next "Codex: Chaos Space Marines" ?

[subtlebrush]

I have had a thought on how I would like the Legions to be implemented into the game, following the same example as the Pheonix Lords in the Eldar Codex you would have a base stat line for each lord which would be slightly better than the normal choice and each one would give an army wide rule. So for example;

 

Statline

WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I6 A4 SV3+/4+ LD10

 

Alpharius -

Tactical Mastery - When bringing in reserves they can enter from any table edge

Lord of the Hyra - Troops gain the Infiltrate Universal Rule

 

Erebus -

Word in your Ear - Select one troop unit after deployment from your oponents army and force them to make a leadership test, if they fail they become one of your troop choices

Bearer of the Word - All daemons within 12 inches of any of your units do not role for instability

 

Ferrox -

Seige Master - Allows Heavy upport choices to be taken as Elites as well

Iron Within - Havocs and Troop choices gain Tank Hunters universal rule

 

Severus -

Rule through Fear - Select one of your oponents HQs and have them roll a leadership test, if they fail then that model is reduced to one wound

Lord of the Night - Your oponent suffers +1 to every leadership test he must take

 

Something along those lines to allow us to choose a legion, loyalists can have characters that can change there FoC to do there chapters so why cant we

 

I quite like this idea. It's a really good start actually. Maybe GW will consider something along these lines, it would help solve the "is one book big enough for Renegades and Legions" bit and keep things simple as it seems to be their aim lately.

 

Mr.Malevolent

[Decepticon Soundwave]

Severus....do you mean sevatar....because he is dead.

[caboosebe]

He just gave them some names. They could be called Alpha lord 1, Word Bearer lord 1, Nightlord lord 2 and Iron Warriors lord 1.3

 

I do like the idea, but then we'll get a discussion on what aspects are fluffy for that legion.

[Piousservant]

I have had a thought on how I would like the Legions to be implemented into the game, following the same example as the Pheonix Lords in the Eldar Codex you would have a base stat line for each lord which would be slightly better than the normal choice and each one would give an army wide rule. So for example;

 

Statline

WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I6 A4 SV3+/4+ LD10

 

Alpharius -

Tactical Mastery - When bringing in reserves they can enter from any table edge

Lord of the Hyra - Troops gain the Infiltrate Universal Rule

 

Erebus -

Word in your Ear - Select one troop unit after deployment from your oponents army and force them to make a leadership test, if they fail they become one of your troop choices

Bearer of the Word - All daemons within 12 inches of any of your units do not role for instability

 

Ferrox -

Seige Master - Allows Heavy upport choices to be taken as Elites as well

Iron Within - Havocs and Troop choices gain Tank Hunters universal rule

 

Severus -

Rule through Fear - Select one of your oponents HQs and have them roll a leadership test, if they fail then that model is reduced to one wound

Lord of the Night - Your oponent suffers +1 to every leadership test he must take

 

Something along those lines to allow us to choose a legion, loyalists can have charecters that can change there FoC to do there chapters so why cant we

 

 

Though they are some nice concepts, it's an idea I really dislike (and dislike in the current SM Codex). I shouldn't *have* to take Ahriman to play my Thousand Sons, nor should I *have* to take "Night Lord Lord 1" to play Night Lords. Stuff like that shouldn't be tied to using Special Characters. Plus for all the Legions to be represented you'd have a huge number of characters as well, I'd rather have that space adding character and options to the entire army.

[mrtn]

Special characters that "unlock" stuff is a crap idea wherever it rears it's ugly head. Just give me generic characters that can unlock stuff with chaos gifts or something instead.

[Shas'o R'Vre]

Though they are some nice concepts, it's an idea I really dislike (and dislike in the current SM Codex). I shouldn't *have* to take Ahriman to play my Thousand Sons, nor should I *have* to take "Night Lord Lord 1" to play Night Lords. Stuff like that shouldn't be tied to using Special Characters. Plus for all the Legions to be represented you'd have a huge number of characters as well, I'd rather have that space adding character and options to the entire army.

Perhaps a "doctrine" system then? As doctrines/gifts bought for a generic Chaos Lord/Sorcerer.

[AoC]

I have had a thought on how I would like the Legions to be implemented into the game, following the same example as the Pheonix Lords in the Eldar Codex you would have a base stat line for each lord which would be slightly better than the normal choice and each one would give an army wide rule. So for example;

 

Statline

WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I6 A4 SV3+/4+ LD10

 

Alpharius -

Tactical Mastery - When bringing in reserves they can enter from any table edge

Lord of the Hyra - Troops gain the Infiltrate Universal Rule

 

Erebus -

Word in your Ear - Select one troop unit after deployment from your oponents army and force them to make a leadership test, if they fail they become one of your troop choices

Bearer of the Word - All daemons within 12 inches of any of your units do not role for instability

 

Ferrox -

Seige Master - Allows Heavy upport choices to be taken as Elites as well

Iron Within - Havocs and Troop choices gain Tank Hunters universal rule

 

Severus -

Rule through Fear - Select one of your oponents HQs and have them roll a leadership test, if they fail then that model is reduced to one wound

Lord of the Night - Your oponent suffers +1 to every leadership test he must take

 

Something along those lines to allow us to choose a legion, loyalists can have charecters that can change there FoC to do there chapters so why cant we

 

 

Though they are some nice concepts, it's an idea I really dislike (and dislike in the current SM Codex). I shouldn't *have* to take Ahriman to play my Thousand Sons, nor should I *have* to take "Night Lord Lord 1" to play Night Lords. Stuff like that shouldn't be tied to using Special Characters. Plus for all the Legions to be represented you'd have a huge number of characters as well, I'd rather have that space adding character and options to the entire army.

I feel linking legion rules to characters it very bad design choice, especially linking them to special characters.

No, really, this is stuff i don't want to see in next chaos codex.

[JamesI]

I feel linking legion rules to characters it very bad design choice, especially linking them to special characters.

No, really, this is stuff i don't want to see in next chaos codex.

Agreed. There are ways to make legion rules that don't require the equivalent of "legion tactics" tied to specials.

 

I'd also like to see a way to differentiate renegades that serve a particular god and the legion that serves that god (I want to play Tzeentchy marines without having to be Thousand Sons!)

[maverike_prime]

Special characters that "unlock" stuff is a crap idea wherever it rears it's ugly head. Just give me generic characters that can unlock stuff with chaos gifts or something instead.

 

Hang on a second. How is one different from another? Weather you pay 25 points to buy the ability on a 125 point character or you buy a 150 point special character, you're doing the same thing.

[JamesI]

Special characters that "unlock" stuff is a crap idea wherever it rears it's ugly head. Just give me generic characters that can unlock stuff with chaos gifts or something instead.

 

Hang on a second. How is one different from another? Weather you pay 25 points to buy the ability on a 125 point character or you buy a 150 point special character, you're doing the same thing.

Not really, as the non-special characters can have other gear changes.

 

Also some groups still frown on using named characters.

[mrtn]

As JamesI say you can combine it with other gear, and hopefully take it on more than one type of character. So if I want my "making plague marines troops" guy to be a sorcerer with a pistol, then it's no fun if I instead have to take a special termie lord with a combimelta, especially if the background of my warband describes my plague sorcerer Charlie the Putrescent as a pistol lover who hates terminators.

 

It stifles creativity to force special characters down people's throats.

[subtlebrush]

I like Mr.Havocs idea but I would change it just a tad bit so its not falling in line with GW's trend of forcing special characters down our throats as everyone has been stating. I think a traits system similar to what he posted but for our regular Lord/Lieutenant choices (yeah I want our Lieutenants back) and keeping the SC's separate (with maybe a few extra special rules when you take them like for example, Abaddon allowing Chosen PA/TDA as troops choices etc.) I think a traits system would benefit Chaos Space Marines much more then it tried to for Loyalists. Its a way of keeping it simple so the book wont go to the extreme cluster like 3.5 did and yet give us an ability to make specific Legions/Renegades. If we start to get too complicated with rules again we run back into the Andy Chamber days which I for one do not want to get back into.

 

IMHO, I see how GW wants to run things more smoothly and have less "loopholes" (I remember people clearly stacking their HQ's to the point where it was just ludicrous) like in the Chambers days but their struggling to get it to a "smooth" setting. You've got Ward power housing everything, yeah I'm looking at you Grey Knights :P and just throwing everything off. I hope Phil Kelly (I don't know who else, maybe Vetock (sp.) ???) can work some magic on the next codex for fear of what Ward will produce if he gets his hands on them (I was all for Ward till I saw what hes doing with Grey Knights and now I just sigh in frustration when I read about them) but I wont dwell on him and take this topic in the wrong direction. What we need is a traits system to give us what we all crave, evil/masochistic/"fallen angel" Chaos Space Marines who can give Loyalist a run for their money without being forced into one "Obliterator/Plague Marine List" and can work for any Chaos player no matter his God affiliation.

 

Also, give us real marks this time I wont go into the idiocy of putting marks on banner bearers only but c'mon give us real marks back.

 

Mr.Malevolent

[Decepticon Soundwave]

I kinda wish we could get armenious valtrex the alchemancer and destroyer of herpes from badab war 1

[d@n]

I would like the ability to upgrade the twin linked bolter on bikes to havoc launchers or twin linked meltas like the doom rider used to get to make up for the fact that we cannot have attack bikes, also they could do with being 8-10 points cheaper

[Chaoswolf]

I just want them to hurry up and make the new book(s)! I played a game as an experiment where I had 300 points more than my opponent (yes, he knew) and still got beaten. I'm not claiming to be the best general on the planet, but doesn't this say something about the quality of our codex?

[Brother Nihm]

That depends on so many things really.

 

It is true that we aren't (and haven't been since 5th ed.) a top-tier 'dex. like IG and the Wolves.

But we still have a few viable (and oh so bland) builds, as well as some of the strongest troop options in the game.

[Lord Typhon]

I just want them to hurry up and make the new book(s)! I played a game as an experiment where I had 300 points more than my opponent (yes, he knew) and still got beaten. I'm not claiming to be the best general on the planet, but doesn't this say something about the quality of our codex?

 

depends entirely upon what the points were spent on, but it isn't exactly a good sign.

 

Personally I want legion rules back asap, and I think I speak for a good percentage of chaos players there based upon what i've heard and read here and in stores/clubs; GW is a business, and if a good percentage of customers want something that would be easy to implement for minimal costs (maybe 6-10 pages in the next codex..not exactly expensive to do if they cut some of those colour photographs that are absolutely pointless.. ) it's in their best interest to grant it.

 

All they need is a page for each cult legion and 2-3 pages of undivided (most of those just need 1 unique unit and a couple of special rules..); if they gave rules for legions once more, rather than just being "green and brown CSM" or "pink and black CSM" I'd be willing to bet real money that chaos sales would improve at least by a small amount, enough to cover the production of those pages within a short period of time.

 

If Space Wolves were just grey SM, Blood Angels just red SM after their current 'dexs puppies and Twilight-fans ('wolves and blood angels respectively) everywhere would throw a fit and declare a crusade against GW's home office...why can't we get the same treatment?

[Hellios]

I just want them to hurry up and make the new book(s)! I played a game as an experiment where I had 300 points more than my opponent (yes, he knew) and still got beaten. I'm not claiming to be the best general on the planet, but doesn't this say something about the quality of our codex?

 

One game isn't enough... luck alone is enough to win you that... in a 1,000pt army I can pack enough fire power to cripple most 1,500pt lists with a turn of firing (assuming mech lists here) if dice rolls go well for me... and I've had games where the enemy has had a significantly better army that me and I've lucked out and say destroyed all the vehicles I could shoot on the first turn...

 

You need to try multiple games and construct both lists to the same level for that kinda thing to have any validity.

[Master of fact]

We need plastic chosen with WAIT FOR IT.....

 

The Kai gun! screw you GK terminators, you may have psy bolts but i just shot you with a demon bullet!

[Shas'o R'Vre]

The Kai gun! screw you GK terminators, you may have psy bolts but i just shot you with a demon bullet!

This. Just... This.

[Decepticon Soundwave]

So i generally play 2k+ in 40k and I really don't lose much. But then again I am not playing tournament players I am playing decent people who still on some level have a soul....lol. My build doesn't seem like much but it basically boils down to 5-6 units in rhinos 10 men strong unmarked. Deamon prince with wings and warp times and raptors at least one unit of 10 if I can fit more excellent and hell maybe some bikers if I go crazy. I find no one builds lists to deal with 70 3+ up armour saves. I choke your guns with my dead then tear you down.

 

Note the soul comment was a joke.

[Chaoswolf]

I just want them to hurry up and make the new book(s)! I played a game as an experiment where I had 300 points more than my opponent (yes, he knew) and still got beaten. I'm not claiming to be the best general on the planet, but doesn't this say something about the quality of our codex?

 

You need to try multiple games and construct both lists to the same level for that kinda thing to have any validity.

 

Do you mean both armies, or just using the same 2300 list against multiple different players/armies? If the latter, I have tried but most people aren't as magnanimous as the opponent I mentioned.

 

I was running Typhus +8 PM in a land raider

3X 10 pm in rhinos

3X dreads with ML/dccw---I know the debates, I've found them useful this way. They can't hurt each other, they either draw fire from my vehicles, or they get ignored and get into CC and eat stuff.

2X2 Oblits

 

Not the best list I'm sure, but I like trying different builds regularly in an effort to find good/acceptable ones. I don't generally have fore knowledge of what I'm facing, so I try for balanced all comers lists.

 

As a side note, Typhus was quite fun; I think his psychic powers killed more than his melee.

[Razhbad]

I have had a thought on how I would like the Legions to be implemented into the game, following the same example as the Pheonix Lords in the Eldar Codex you would have a base stat line for each lord which would be slightly better than the normal choice and each one would give an army wide rule. So for example;

 

Statline

WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I6 A4 SV3+/4+ LD10

 

Alpharius -

Tactical Mastery - When bringing in reserves they can enter from any table edge

Lord of the Hyra - Troops gain the Infiltrate Universal Rule

 

Erebus -

Word in your Ear - Select one troop unit after deployment from your oponents army and force them to make a leadership test, if they fail they become one of your troop choices

Bearer of the Word - All daemons within 12 inches of any of your units do not role for instability

 

Ferrox -

Seige Master - Allows Heavy upport choices to be taken as Elites as well

Iron Within - Havocs and Troop choices gain Tank Hunters universal rule

 

Severus -

Rule through Fear - Select one of your oponents HQs and have them roll a leadership test, if they fail then that model is reduced to one wound

Lord of the Night - Your oponent suffers +1 to every leadership test he must take

 

Something along those lines to allow us to choose a legion, loyalists can have charecters that can change there FoC to do there chapters so why cant we

 

Personally i think that would be the best answer for it all, and only with the legions you have used as an example. After all there are already the cult troops for the others and i'd imagine the Black Legion to be more generic.

 

I would like a distinction between Renegades and Traitor Legion Marines. My recomendation would be simply equipment, give the traitors starting Bolter, bolt pistol and close combat weapon, plus nice choice of upgrades. Renegade Marines starting could have Bolter & Bolt Pistol with less choice on upgrades, but cheaper in points.

[General Ravensong]

My wish list

- more cult based options for the other FoC slots

- marks being inherent to the squad rather than tied to a banner

- marks giving the same benefit they give to cult troops (e.g. nurgle termis have blight grenades and fnp, khorne raptors have fc)

- The special characters can stay as is, but i'd like to see the unnamed lords interesting as well

- I don't care one way or another how they handle deamons in our codex (so long as the princes stay with us)

- psychic defense. i just realized we don't have hoods/runes/rods/shadows or anything to really defend ourselves against that

[Kristoff]

- psychic defense. i just realized we don't have hoods/runes/rods/shadows or anything to really defend ourselves against that

 

Would it be crazy to have a slightly weak psychic defense wargear and then have a Sorcerer power that makes casting psyker powers till he's activated again, really painful, or at least, potentially really painful to try?