What do you want in the next "Codex: Chaos Space Marines" ?

[Decepticon Soundwave]

We Have Psyker defense his name is Khârn.

[Fimbul]

We Have Psyker defense his name is Khârn.

 

But he can only protect himself, not anyone in either his squad or anywhere else in the army.

[Kristoff]

But he can be a VERY effective anti-psyker tool... once he gets to them.

[Shas'o R'Vre]

But he can be a VERY effective anti-psyker tool... once he gets to them.

Unfortunately, getting to them is the hard part :)

[Kevlarshark]

Psi Hoods and Collars of Khorne are all the anti-psyker that is needed, not saying more would be rejected, but they are all that is needed to pull Codex chaos back into line.

 

On the HQ thing...

 

I quite like the system in the black templar codex... the Emperors Champion allows you to purchase army wide perks.

 

I would like the purchasable perks spread among the HQ choices Lord, DP and Sorcerer. The Lords perks would focus on Force organisational changes (eg bikes as troops).

The Daemon Prince would boost moral/have negative effects on enemy's Ld (eg give friendlies stubborn). The Sorcerer would do tricky things like grant one re-roll a turn or +1 to your reserves roll.

 

This combined with 'proper' marks for the characters would hopefully make them all into more useful choices.

 

Edit - spelling

[swarmtime]

I would love to see some things like the grey knight codex. Have some traitor guard and such. Love the idea of inquistitorial opposites with some seriously chaos'd up retinues and squads. Pretty much everything needs to get cheaper and marks made decent. Maybe each mark could have two options for army wide boost in HQ. So say for Khorne the character gets furious charge and +1 attack. Berzerkers are troops and all troops can have furious charge or get cool wargear. just my 2 cents, haven't really thought it out myself :)

[Kristoff]

Should Plague Marines and Berzerkers have special ammo like Rubrics and Noise Marines?

 

Plague's easy by setting it to use Poison rules. But Berzerkers should mayhaps get their old Chainaxes back instead of specialty ammo.

 

Thoughts?

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

Should Plague Marines and Berzerkers have special ammo like Rubrics and Noise Marines?

 

Plague's easy by setting it to use Poison rules. But Berzerkers should mayhaps get their old Chainaxes back instead of specialty ammo.

 

Thoughts?

 

I could get with that. I truly do miss the old Khornate chainaxe.

[Venjenz]

Should Plague Marines and Berzerkers have special ammo like Rubrics and Noise Marines?

 

Plague's easy by setting it to use Poison rules. But Berzerkers should mayhaps get their old Chainaxes back instead of specialty ammo.

 

Thoughts?

+1

 

Plague Marines are already our best troop unit (imho, ymmv), but no reason they can't have a poison upgrade like NM get with sonic weapons. 5 points for some basic plague bolter equivalent, and then a champ only plague weapon, etc.

 

One other thing for the themed troops would be that the named HQ's should give some bonus to any unit that would be in that theme. Like if you have Kharne out, any zerkers get some bonus, or having Typhus makes plague marines buffed a bit. Something like that. Even if it's just Leadership or something. Whatever, just some little bennie for taking the named guys with similar themed troops.

[Decepticon Soundwave]

I feel that we will not get Khornate Chain axes as they did away with everything that dropped peoples armour saves to 4+. Now say a upgrade for rending would be awesome.

 

Also is anyone else sick of the Possessed random chart. I feel like either give me my old possessed or make it some mark based upgrades or something else. I have 63 Possessed in my collection and they rarely ever leave their cases. Because they suck. I mean I only ever have them in games when I just wanna have something crazy, you know play the game the way it was meant to be played by taking cool looking minis putting them on the table and damning the consequences and just having them kill...or get killed.

 

Also our bikes are far too expensive. I mean 33 pts a model based is :cusse. Marines get 1 for 30 which includes a sarge and every bike further they pay 25 and the only thing we get different is a close combat weapon. Son on our first three bikes we pay 24 pts for 3 extra attacks then a further 8 per bike. We have no way to make them troops. Aside from the fact that unless you are bit hoarders like myself theres no incentive to even make Chaos Bikes because we can only buy them 1 at a time unlike our loyalist counterparts who can buy them in 3's or buya 90 dollar battle force of what like 9-10 bikes.

 

We pay 30pts less for our land raider then loyalists but lose 2 seats and the ability to upgrade with anything more then a 1 shot melta. Possession is a goddamn holdover from previous editions where the BS drops to :cusse. So our land raiders can barely hit the broadside of a barn or they are really tough one wound models.

 

Then our dreadnaughts for 15 pts difference marines get a dread they are not afraid to use. I am not saying they should get rid of the insane. I would like however an upgrade that allows our dreadnaughts to not be a liability. 1/3rd of the time the dreadnaught is not doing what it's supposed to. Fire Frenzy is basically usually killing our troops and beserk charge prevents it from being a mobile weapons platform. So 2 out of 6 turns generally it isnot doing any of the jobs it is intended for. It's not like it is against background. Malcharion, the Dreadnaught from sabbat martyr we have sane ones. maybe like a venerable upgrade. Because who honestly uses dreadnaughts?

[Kristoff]

I feel that we will not get Khornate Chain axes as they did away with everything that dropped peoples armour saves to 4+. Now say a upgrade for rending would be awesome.

 

2nd Edition gave them +1 S and -2 AS, but that's still not quite right. When I brought them up, I think my brain was thinking +1 S or Rending, so that's more or less what I had in mind. Would full Rending be okay, or should it just be versus non-vehicles?

 

Also is anyone else sick of the Possessed random chart. I feel like either give me my old possessed or make it some mark based upgrades or something else. I have 63 Possessed in my collection and they rarely ever leave their cases. Because they suck. I mean I only ever have them in games when I just wanna have something crazy, you know play the game the way it was meant to be played by taking cool looking minis putting them on the table and damning the consequences and just having them kill...or get killed.

 

Agreed. The last codex allowed the unit to receive one Daemonic upgrade/mutation, and could easily be brought in again.

 

 

Taking a piece from the Space Wolves and Daemons of Chaos, what if there are 4 tiers of HQ.

 

1st Tier: Daemon Princes: Bigger, Badder, and capable of ripping the arms off of a Hive Tyrant and kissing a Mawlock to death, but more expensive because of it. But, he can't take a Retinue, is Unique (the new definition of 0-1), but strong enough to be that more than one would be cheesier than Wisconsin.

 

2nd Tier: Chaos Lords: Warriors and Sorcerers that are not bigger, but better at what they do now. They have most versatile sets of skills, weapons, and gifts available in the CSM codex. They are the only ones that unlock Retinues.

 

Both of the above Tiers can define the main theme of the army, such as Legion, Marks, and FOC slots.

 

3rd Tier: Chaos Champions: These are the lieutenants of the above, and can fit 4 of these guys in the army if there are no other HQ tiers taken. These are Warriors and Sorcerers that haven't quite made as big a name for themselves, but are still up and comers. While they can't have Retinues, or carry all the bells, whistles, and gifts of their superiors, they are more plentiful (i.e. cheaper), and can add special gifts or abilities that are otherwise unavailable to more basic units (like Scoring Terminators, Warp-Walker that can Deep Strike their unit through an Icon, etc) that they join.

 

4th Tier: FOC-less: These units do not count towards the minimum mission requirements, nor do they take away from the limits. This is where the Retinues go, defined by their Lord. This is also where the Greater Daemon arrives. Instead of the GD automatically replacing the model that it summons at, the strength of the summoner (i.e. icon carrier) may allow the model to stay. An Aspiring Champion is either automatically replaced as normal, or only saved from replacement by rolling a 6. A Chaos Champion can be saved by rolling a 4+. A Chaos Lord would be saved on a 2-3+. DP's would never summon a challenger to their power, so only can summon the Lesser Daemons and Spawn.

 

Spawns would be changed to summoned only, either by Sorcerer spell (i.e. turning an opponent into a Spawn), summoned through Icons like other Daemons, or have the Champions and Aspiring Champions turn into them if they fail at XYZ (like retreating if they're Khorne).

 

Either a Fast Walker Transport Daemon Engine or a Deep Striking Transport Daemon Engine that becomes a non-Transport Walker after it lands, would be awesome (or both).

[Decepticon Soundwave]

I liked when spawn were also wargear. I feel like Spawn could be units but for what you get they should not be so expensive. I think rending against vehicles should be allowed it is a straight rending upgrade not rending with conditionals. I feel like our list is missing playable versatility.

 

Rubric Marines in this current edition are terrible why because every thing and it's mother causes 4+ cover. I liked when we had terrain rules because then all cover wasn't universally 4+.

 

Also I feel rules wise going to ground certain types of weapons should be fireable. Like Rifles and heavy weapons.

 

Also rules wise we lost overlapping fields of fire. I mean especially for space marines which have suits of armour with inbuilt communicators a unit behind another can't say "squad alpha take a knee and we will join you at firing into those xenos." Now currently the rules seem to be about hugging cover and creating crossfires and the idea of fire support and supression are non existant.

 

Keep in mind also that the dread moved from heavy support to elites because they wanted people to take more of them. However we have yet to get a new standarddread and withprice increases the way they are a forgeworld legion specific costs 5$ give or take more then the one we guy in stores. Thats without conversion.

[Kristoff]

I liked when spawn were also wargear. I feel like Spawn could be units but for what you get they should not be so expensive. I think rending against vehicles should be allowed it is a straight rending upgrade not rending with conditionals. I feel like our list is missing playable versatility.

 

Full Rending on Spawn makes sense, but what about Chainaxes?

[Kevlarshark]

Bezerkers are killy enough already...If GW went down that road then perhaps an upgraded cult troops in the Elite slots with more options like the trueborn in DE codex?

 

I like the crazy dreds, but the only really work well in groups... perhaps be able to select a squad of up to 3 of them for one elite slot?

[Fimbul]

If they do continue with the crazy dreads (tbh, I absolutely despise that rule with all my heart) I'd at least hope they do it as a leadership test instead of a 1/3 chance of it doing something it maybe shouldn't.

[d@n]

If they do continue with the crazy dreads (tbh, I absolutely despise that rule with all my heart) I'd at least hope they do it as a leadership test instead of a 1/3 chance of it doing something it maybe shouldn't.

If you had some way to deed strike them into the enemy lines then the crazes rule wouldnt be a bad thing

[Mr. Sandbot]

If they do continue with the crazy dreads (tbh, I absolutely despise that rule with all my heart) I'd at least hope they do it as a leadership test instead of a 1/3 chance of it doing something it maybe shouldn't.

If you had some way to deed strike them into the enemy lines then the crazes rule wouldnt be a bad thing

 

I'm with this idea. As long as we're able to deep strike our dreads and make sure that the turn they land on the dread also doesn't waste time shooting up his own drop pod then its alright for them to be crazed since it can be seen as more of a benefit than anything else.

But, having a venerable option that produces both benefits and removes crazed would also be nice since it fits into the fluff and helps game balance.

 

Bezerkers are killy enough already...If GW went down that road then perhaps an upgraded cult troops in the Elite slots with more options like the trueborn in DE codex?

Giving the chain axe its own special rule wouldn't be too bad. I was thinking more a long the lines of just a +1 in S or an additional attack.

Maybe if they had elite versions of berzerkers then they can have the 4+ only save rule.

Actually, why not have elite versions of Berzerkers, plague marines and noise marines?

[minigun762]

I never really understood the rationale for Chain Axes being armor piercing weapons. If anything it seems more like they'd be better at wounding, so my vote would be re-roll chance to wounds as their special rules. Its something we really only see with Lightning Claws and it would make them more dangerous against light infantry which seems to be their focus (background speaking).

[the jeske]

I never really understood the rationale for Chain Axes being armor piercing weapons.

technicly the real old ones[and WE should have those] were used in boarding actions to cut armored doors. they are like chain fist on a stick. and if something opens up a armored door it opens a power armor or a tank just as good.

[AoC]

I never really understood the rationale for Chain Axes being armor piercing weapons.

technicly the real old ones[and WE should have those] were used in boarding actions to cut armored doors. they are like chain fist on a stick. and if something opens up a armored door it opens a power armor or a tank just as good.

Nope, chainfists used energy of discharge created by powerfists, chain axes have no such power field.

But concerning weapons, i only hope for more variation in close combat weapon in 6th edition (time when new chaos codex will show up), right now is plain boring with ignore saves/allow saves.

 

About ideas concerning dread and berzerkers, all those units have to be redone from scratch.

 

I think that basic statline of Chaos Veterans should look like:

5/4/4/4/2/5/2/10/3+/5++

[the jeske]

Nope, chainfists used energy of discharge created by powerfists, chain axes have no such power field.

if we come from it from the 2ed point of view when weapons had their own spece and were not just ccw/power weapon etc . the khorn chain ax had power generators there were also superior to normal chain swords [not in game terms of course . chainsword had parry] they stats were the same level as chaos power maces [which would post heresy spawn the loyalist thunder hammer]. the more elite versions of the weapons were like the one Khârn has [and that one even now is 2d6 vs AV].

A chain fist does not crush nor does it burst stuff with an internal power field like the powerfist does . It uses the powerfist raw power to punch a high speed chain blade to cut bulk heads . the chain ax works in the same way and yes of course the power is smaller , just like a meq own str in power armor is lower then a meq str with a fist is . am talking about the the abilty to cut armored stuff. chain sword cant do it , unless they are big eviscerators [with biger power generators.

[minigun762]

I never really understood the rationale for Chain Axes being armor piercing weapons.

technicly the real old ones[and WE should have those] were used in boarding actions to cut armored doors. they are like chain fist on a stick. and if something opens up a armored door it opens a power armor or a tank just as good.

 

Interesting, I didn't know that. Thanks Jeske.

My knowledge of 40k only extends back so far.

 

EDIT: You could still make it work with my idea about re-rolling wounds. Maybe re-roll armor penetration rolls against vehicles. Wouldn't be overly powerful as a S5 Berzerker could still only hurt AV11 at most but they would be more able to damage those light vehicles.

 

On second thought, maybe thats all too complicated and a simple +1S would be simpler.

[Decepticon Soundwave]

The problem with deep striking dreadnaughts in chaos is of course well why can't other units have drop pods. Why can't chaos have drop pod assault. Which when i posted about night lords after soul hunter and throne of lies people on this very forum were like "No we have to be different from codex space marines" blah blah blah. Anyway point of the matter people here said chaos should not have drop pods and now we are going against that. Now keep in mind I agree with the fact that chaos should have drop pods. As it is basically supported by the books.

[Mr. Sandbot]

The problem with deep striking dreadnaughts in chaos is of course well why can't other units have drop pods. Why can't chaos have drop pod assault. Which when i posted about night lords after soul hunter and throne of lies people on this very forum were like "No we have to be different from codex space marines" blah blah blah. Anyway point of the matter people here said chaos should not have drop pods and now we are going against that. Now keep in mind I agree with the fact that chaos should have drop pods. As it is basically supported by the books.

 

I don't think i was here for that. Personally, i think we should have dreadclaws.

[Decepticon Soundwave]

The problem with deep striking dreadnaughts in chaos is of course well why can't other units have drop pods. Why can't chaos have drop pod assault. Which when i posted about night lords after soul hunter and throne of lies people on this very forum were like "No we have to be different from codex space marines" blah blah blah. Anyway point of the matter people here said chaos should not have drop pods and now we are going against that. Now keep in mind I agree with the fact that chaos should have drop pods. As it is basically supported by the books.

 

I don't think i was here for that. Personally, i think we should have dreadclaws.

 

maybe maybe not hence the word people rather then all. I think dreadclaws are wonderfully chaosy. The fly back and pickup others on the other hand is a little much.