What do you want in the next "Codex: Chaos Space Marines" ?

[minigun762]

Whether its drop pods or death claws or something else, Chaos needs some sort of alternative deployment method beyond walking and Rhinos.

 

As far as CSMs being different then loyalists, we have to remember that they're both Marines and much of the older equipment is going to be identical. Its not a bad thing. We can always have the same basic piece of equipment and further alter it using upgrades to make it more "Chaosy".

 

I really think they should bring back the spiky bits upgrade but for vehicles. We should get something for having spiky armor. :)

[d@n]

I would be happy with 2xd6 armour penetration on zerker chain axes as the big problem with running a world eater list is getting through mech.

[Warsmith Aznable]

I really think they should bring back the spiky bits upgrade but for vehicles. We should get something for having spiky armor. :(

 

We do. It's the fun we get from picking torn pieces of transport foam from our tanks' spikes. :P

 

Either that or say that because there's stuff to grab onto all over our armored units that assaulting forces get a +1 on their penetration roles... :)

[Emperors Immortals]

I really hope GW are taking notes, and in that spirit ill make a list of what i think is really overdue;

 

 

1.Make HQ choices more viable - i want to take my Khorne Lord, but why would i? The sorcerer is better due to warp time (at least) and the Prince wrecks face better then a lord.This is what killed the BA captain.How to make them better, im not too sure - but retinues are a must for sorcs and lords.

 

2.Chainaxes - make them Rending.Ill be a happy little slayer then.

 

3.Dreadnoughts - i love dreads, i take them all the time.But they do need a little oomph, a suggestion earlier was to allow them to be taken in groups of 3, i like that and its suitably chaosy.Fix the unstable tech byy increasing numbers.

 

4.Insertion - seriously, the only way to get to a battle is in a car, hot footing it or sneaking up behind the enemy?(and the sneaking is rare).dreadclaws - NOW.

 

5.Icons - Gotts go - make them unit wide marks instead, that way we can start to make things like non-1k sons Tzeentch marines.

 

6.Allied traitors (never seen that sentence before lol) - we need traitors like LaD and the Blood PAct troops from Vraaks. Traitor gaurdsmen and mutants/heretics.

 

7.Daemons - bring back our full strength choices, or at least stop making us kill our champs to have our GD on-field.It causes imbalance.

 

8.Legions - a simple upgrade to either HQ or unit sagre or an army wide purchase per squad to grant some USR like allowing mixed cults in a Undivided army (i think of ChaosUnited, not undivided) infiltrate, heavy as elite or stable daemons (even troops choices daemons for WB set at 0-2) its a pretty simple fix.

 

I think we just made most lists viable, not too OP and made both traitor lists AND legion lists easily workable.

 

 

And this is just for me - make the World Eater fluff reflect tactical ability again.tactics enable a more decisive victory, and hence more skulls for Khorne.We dont all think a good defence is BURNMAIMKILL.

 

 

 

Things they got right include Cult troops as troops choices, and i hope it stays that way.

 

 

 

 

Ive played chaos since 2nd ed, and i cant field my army competitivly anymore, they only come out for Vraaks campaigns or for a break form the loyalist forces i own (5 PA armies gives you a lot of choice lol), but they need some love now, not a major job IMO - just rebalancing and a tune-up.

 

edit - more wargear like collars, plagueswords and the Kai gun.Im currently running my DP with doombolt to simulate, but its less then optimal.

[Decepticon Soundwave]

Apparently according to the manager at my local store the reason we are stuck with the :cusse pile we call acodex was because our previous book was a horrid mess, everyone feilded the exact same army and they decided that legions would now only represent a small part of the Chaos Family.

 

My problems with this are not everyone fielded the same list. Some people played word bearers, iron warriors, night lords, alpha legion. If some options were not taken it was because we didn't have mini support for them. Like Cultists for example around the time of our last dex was when they were updating guardsmen from metal to plastic. Cultist Conversions were necessary or we had to use those dreadful looking old cultists so no one feilded them. Possessed were conversion jobs and until eye of terror we didn't have a defiler. If you are only watching tournament circuits well yes maybe only what like 3 variants were generally being played. Otherwise we did have a hodgepodge of players out there.

 

Our Codex was in no way a horrid mess. You just needed skills in whatever language you speak. Anyone who could not navigate that book should have just stuck to codex marines.

 

The legion thing....well considering that generally when standard marines fell to chaos they fell in small numbers legions were a huge part of our fluff. In fact legions feilded 10K in marines minimum while what renegades were generally a company large at most. With few exceptions there were more in the legions than in warbands. Plus in all honesty what does bob the space marine got to be pissed about, he has the best weapons and armour in the galaxy and he was on the side that won the heresy. While bill the Chaos Marine is a bitter guy who lost the heresy and is rightly pissed about all the deep stuff from the horus heresy.

[Rik Riorik]

Not to take too much away from a Codex I love but the 3.5er was quite messy and hard to get to grips with. But the soöution should have been a restructuring of the book and not a wholesale removal of stuff.

[Kristoff]

If its any consolation, the Dark Angels were hit similarly, though, not quite as much. GW went through a period of time that could best be called "The Minimalist Period". Chaos just happened to be that full end of that pendulum swing. It really didn't help that there were certain builds that were grossly overdone and the definition of Wisconsin Cheddar with a massive amount of facial hair in the previous codex which happened to propel the pendulum's swing a bit farther than was warranted.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

If its any consolation, the Dark Angels were hit similarly, though, not quite as much. GW went through a period of time that could best be called "The Minimalist Period". Chaos just happened to be that full end of that pendulum swing. It really didn't help that there were certain builds that were grossly overdone and the definition of Wisconsin Cheddar with a massive amount of facial hair in the previous codex which happened to propel the pendulum's swing a bit farther than was warranted.

 

I blame that pendulum's momentum solely on the two people they tapped to write the "minimalist" Codex, neither of whom were Chaos players during 3.5 but both of whom were victims of it. A convenient avenue of experimentation granted to souls who stood to lose nothing from savaging what was beauty and power while slaking their vengeance on an unsuspecting playerbase. As for the Wisconsin Cheddar, compared to the current crop of Codices and what they can bring to bear under this edition, it's USDA generic American at best. :tu:

[Decepticon Soundwave]

I think when we do get a next codex it should be the thickness of codex space marines in rules and fluff.

 

Abaddon: Keep the same but may be allow himto make Chosen Terminators and Chosen scoring

 

Khârn: Seriously the brock sampson of our codex I doubt he needs changing

 

Typhus: T5 Eternal Warrior

 

Ahriman: 3+ invuln maybe some sort of deep strike option ormake him scoring for purpose of capturing objectives

 

Lucious: Old armour of shrieking souls

 

Huron: Gives units veteran skills for points increase

 

Fabulous billy: Keep the same

 

Chaos Lord: more options

Chaos Sorceror: More options

Deamon Prince: either build you own or more options

Chaos Lieutenant: bring this back

Chaos Lieutenant Sorceror: see above

 

Chosen: have options of Infiltrate, Tank Hunter, Furious Charge, or Counter Attack

Chosen Terminators: no need to change

Possessed: Don't know where to start but this needs drastic change

Dreanaught: either 1 to 3 option, drop pod or an upgrade to remove insane

 

Chaos Space Marines: real marks again

Zerkers: upgrade for rending and bring back sacred numbers

Rubric: special ammunition one that negates cover, one that fires blasts and one that kills marine armour

Plague Marines: Poisoned round upgrade, T5

Noise: no change needed

 

Raptors: need something to make them better then standard assault marines maybe furious charge

Bikers: less points

Spawn: less points

??????: Something else

 

Vindi: keep

Land Raider: carrying capacity 12

Havocs: can upgrade for tank hunter

Oblits: keep

Preds: somesort of dakka pred using the reaper autocannon

Defiler:

 

Dedicated transports

Rhino:keep

dreadclaw: if we get this it uses drop pod assault however any subsequent round it can go up and grab a new unit however no matter what the turn the second deepstrike of a dreadclaw is 4+.

 

Wargear options:

Ability to get 2 powerfists or chainfists, Collar of Khorne, Psychic Hood, Accursed Crozius, Servo Harness, Servo Arm, Veteran skill upgrades for characters, either bring back named deamon weapons or give us new options for the deamon weapon because the bloodfeeder is basically a death sentence. Spawn, Chaos Hounds as well. Bring back retinues

 

New unit options

Cultists:

Corrupted Guardsmen

Mutants

Big Muties

Deamons: either give us back our old deamons or give us better options.

 

New characters:

Named Dark Apostle

Named Night Lord

Named Alpha Legion

Named Warsmith

[maverike_prime]

I never really understood the rationale for Chain Axes being armor piercing weapons.

technicly the real old ones[and WE should have those] were used in boarding actions to cut armored doors. they are like chain fist on a stick. and if something opens up a armored door it opens a power armor or a tank just as good.

 

Accept that was the problem. You go against Power Armor and it makes the armor effectively worthless. But you go against a Guards man who has mesh armor... and that big bad chain ax has no effect? By making the chain ax reduce a models save to 4+ at best you had that problem. Giving chain axes the ability to generate an extra attack for each unsaved wound (Like the Furioso's blood talons) I think would be a great answer to this problem.

[Whitefireinferno]

I think the best way to up the Zerk axes would be similar to the "Leaked" SOB pages the arbites shock maul thing each wound it generates it adds another for purposes of who wins combat so like say 5 zerks charge 5 GKs both score 3 wounds so normal draw but with the axes the Zerks class as scoring 6 so win combat or something similar Its a interesting thing instead of making them run of the mill.

[Kevlarshark]

New characters:

Named Dark Apostle

Named Night Lord

Named Alpha Legion

Named Warsmith

 

I think this could be Great...but would suck massively if we got the Codex marine treatment where if you want to play Raven Guard you have to choose Shrike to get the raven guard chapter tactics. I would rather have the means to create my own Chaos lord...seems the more SC are in the codex the more you have to choose one to get the cool options.

 

Chaos Space Marines: real marks again

Zerkers: upgrade for rending and bring back sacred numbers

Rubric: special ammunition one that negates cover, one that fires blasts and one that kills marine armour

Plague Marines: Poisoned round upgrade, T5

Noise: no change needed

 

Yes on the real marks and sacred numbers...

 

Bezerkers, I dont think they need rending, thats just massive overkill (I am aware of the near oxymoron :huh: ) on a unit with 4 attacks on the charge

I haven't had very much survive a charge from an 8 strong unit of bezerkers under their current ruleset, and nothing has survived 16 of them!

They could either do with a points break or some 'special ability' though. Maybe the could have the option to use their chain axes 2 handed for +2 Strength.

this would give the bezerkers a bit more flexibility against tough opponents or even light vehicles.

 

Rubic, like the concept...perhaps these could be sorcerous abilities applied by the AS leading the squad?

 

Plague, dont think their ranged attacks should be poisoned but I would like a return of the plague knife.

 

Noise, I disagree massively here. I think noise marines are a bit of a muddle, expensive and armed with special ranged weapons yet their mark is most useful in CC?

They seriously need a points reduction or a rethink on their mark or even a boost in CC.

 

First the Noise Marines need to either be 5 points cheaper or include the sonic blaster in their current points.

 

Then the squads role needs to be addressed.

If GW redefines the NM as more "ranged fighting" type troops then perhaps +1Bs would represent their enhanced senses (even the Acute Senses rule) as effectively as the current +1I?

 

If they go "close support" then a close combat boost would be more practical I quite like the idea of sonic vibro-knives these could be rending, but poison or a combat drug type boost would be appropriate too.

 

 

Raptors: need something to make them better then standard assault marines maybe furious charge

Bikers: less points

Spawn: less points

??????: Something else

 

Agree that all of these need to be cheaper.

 

I would like Raptors to be closer to Vanguard (more elite veterans) than (standard) Assault marines but I would be happy with Hit and run as standard and

an option (or character upgrade) that gives furious charge too.

 

Space marine bikers have the option of two special weapons and a heavy (on attack bike). Either give CSM bikers the option to take 3 special weps or

give us attack bikes (how hard can it be to nail a seat with a wheel to your bike?)

 

Spawn should cost about half as much as they currently do, have the option of taking marks (in some form) and maybe have some sort of spawn herder to

make their moment more reliable.

 

Something else? I suspect that some sort of valkarie/stormraven type thing will appear (perhaps before the end of the "summer of flyers"?).

[Decepticon Soundwave]

New characters:

Named Dark Apostle

Named Night Lord

Named Alpha Legion

Named Warsmith

 

I think this could be Great...but would suck massively if we got the Codex marine treatment where if you want to play Raven Guard you have to choose Shrike to get the raven guard chapter tactics. I would rather have the means to create my own Chaos lord...seems the more SC are in the codex the more you have to choose one to get the cool options.

 

Chaos Space Marines: real marks again

Zerkers: upgrade for rending and bring back sacred numbers

Rubric: special ammunition one that negates cover, one that fires blasts and one that kills marine armour

Plague Marines: Poisoned round upgrade, T5

Noise: no change needed

 

Yes on the real marks and sacred numbers...

 

Bezerkers, I dont think they need rending, thats just massive overkill (I am aware of the near oxymoron :D ) on a unit with 4 attacks on the charge

I haven't had very much survive a charge from an 8 strong unit of bezerkers under their current ruleset, and nothing has survived 16 of them!

They could either do with a points break or some 'special ability' though. Maybe the could have the option to use their chain axes 2 handed for +2 Strength.

this would give the bezerkers a bit more flexibility against tough opponents or even light vehicles.

 

Rubic, like the concept...perhaps these could be sorcerous abilities applied by the AS leading the squad?

 

Plague, dont think their ranged attacks should be poisoned but I would like a return of the plague knife.

 

Noise, I disagree massively here. I think noise marines are a bit of a muddle, expensive and armed with special ranged weapons yet their mark is most useful in CC?

They seriously need a points reduction or a rethink on their mark or even a boost in CC.

 

First the Noise Marines need to either be 5 points cheaper or include the sonic blaster in their current points.

 

Then the squads role needs to be addressed.

If GW redefines the NM as more "ranged fighting" type troops then perhaps +1Bs would represent their enhanced senses (even the Acute Senses rule) as effectively as the current +1I?

 

If they go "close support" then a close combat boost would be more practical I quite like the idea of sonic vibro-knives these could be rending, but poison or a combat drug type boost would be appropriate too.

 

 

Raptors: need something to make them better then standard assault marines maybe furious charge

Bikers: less points

Spawn: less points

??????: Something else

 

Agree that all of these need to be cheaper.

 

I would like Raptors to be closer to Vanguard (more elite veterans) than (standard) Assault marines but I would be happy with Hit and run as standard and

an option (or character upgrade) that gives furious charge too.

 

Space marine bikers have the option of two special weapons and a heavy (on attack bike). Either give CSM bikers the option to take 3 special weps or

give us attack bikes (how hard can it be to nail a seat with a wheel to your bike?)

 

Spawn should cost about half as much as they currently do, have the option of taking marks (in some form) and maybe have some sort of spawn herder to

make their moment more reliable.

 

Something else? I suspect that some sort of valkarie/stormraven type thing will appear (perhaps before the end of the "summer of flyers"?).

 

 

Well if you noticed my character options you would notice cursed crozius and servo stuff was in there so reallythe night lord and the alpaha legion guy are the only real issue. I feel our lords should have some upgrade for veteran skills seeing as they lead warbands and legions in some ways not buy the right of earned leadership through a military meritocracy but by being the strongest most stubborn and most hateful in their number and with theephemeral favor of dark patron dieties.

 

Now i disagree with you on the noise marines because they exchange their bolter for the sonic weapons they are still I 5 marines with a pistol and CCW, they are also a limited devastator squad in our troops section. They are basically a squad of heavy bolters and missile launchers and the champ has an ap 3 flamer.

 

Now maybe you are right about the thing for the rubric marines that it should be an aspiring sorceror upgrade. What if the aspiring sorceror was the upgrade that gave them the special ammo.

 

As for the Raptors what if we had two types. One amore elite sorta command squad vanguard style, the other a slightly better assasult marine.

[Kevlarshark]

Now i disagree with you on the noise marines because they exchange their bolter for the sonic weapons they are still I 5 marines with a pistol and CCW, they are also a limited devastator squad in our troops section. They are basically a squad of heavy bolters and missile launchers and the champ has an ap 3 flamer.

 

Yes but just looking around several "other SM" codex I could have a Long fang armed with a heavy bolter and 2 more 'special skills' than a Noise Marine for the base cost of the noise marine....thats before he even spends 5 points upgrading his bolter to a sonic blaster. The Heavy bolter has better range and Strength, the Blast master costs as much as 2 plasma cannons! and lacks their AP . Ok blast masters have better Strength, but so does a Lazcannon and LCs are still cheaper! The Doom siren is the only competitively priced item the Noise marines have and its close assault template is entirely at odds with the ranged shooty role of Noise marines.

 

As for actually using noise marines in assault, good luck! Its a big points risk even against normal marines, NMs will be 10 to 45 points more expensive per model and are not any harder to kill. The Marines don't even have to win the combat to make their points back! (50% casualties is almost enough) fewer if your opponent concentrates his attacks on your Noise champ and blast Master guy.

 

Noise marines are too expensive and not focused enough in their (whatever its supposed to be) role.

[d@n]

Now i disagree with you on the noise marines because they exchange their bolter for the sonic weapons they are still I 5 marines with a pistol and CCW, they are also a limited devastator squad in our troops section. They are basically a squad of heavy bolters and missile launchers and the champ has an ap 3 flamer.

 

Yes but just looking around several "other SM" codex I could have a Long fang armed with a heavy bolter and 2 more 'special skills' than a Noise Marine for the base cost of the noise marine....thats before he even spends 5 points upgrading his bolter to a sonic blaster. The Heavy bolter has better range and Strength, the Blast master costs as much as 2 plasma cannons! and lacks their AP . Ok blast masters have better Strength, but so does a Lazcannon and LCs are still cheaper! The Doom siren is the only competitively priced item the Noise marines have and its close assault template is entirely at odds with the ranged shooty role of Noise marines.

 

As for actually using noise marines in assault, good luck! Its a big points risk even against normal marines, NMs will be 10 to 45 points more expensive per model and are not any harder to kill. The Marines don't even have to win the combat to make their points back! (50% casualties is almost enough) fewer if your opponent concentrates his attacks on your Noise champ and blast Master guy.

 

Noise marines are too expensive and not focused enough in their (whatever its supposed to be) role.

I would have to agree with you. I would make the sonic blasters standard kit, and have a blastmaster and doom siren as 15 point upgrade for every 5th NM . i would also probably make noise marines fleet as well as I5 is no big deal in a marine army these days and have heavy versions of sonic weapons as upgrades for dreds preds and maybe land raiders for armys that only take the mark of slaneesh.

[d@n]

New characters:

Named Dark Apostle

Named Night Lord

Named Alpha Legion

Named Warsmith

 

I think this could be Great...but would suck massively if we got the Codex marine treatment where if you want to play Raven Guard you have to choose Shrike to get the raven guard chapter tactics. I would rather have the means to create my own Chaos lord...seems the more SC are in the codex the more you have to choose one to get the cool options.

 

Chaos Space Marines: real marks again

Zerkers: upgrade for rending and bring back sacred numbers

Rubric: special ammunition one that negates cover, one that fires blasts and one that kills marine armour

Plague Marines: Poisoned round upgrade, T5

Noise: no change needed

 

Yes on the real marks and sacred numbers...

 

Bezerkers, I dont think they need rending, thats just massive overkill (I am aware of the near oxymoron :) ) on a unit with 4 attacks on the charge

I haven't had very much survive a charge from an 8 strong unit of bezerkers under their current ruleset, and nothing has survived 16 of them!

They could either do with a points break or some 'special ability' though. Maybe the could have the option to use their chain axes 2 handed for +2 Strength.

this would give the bezerkers a bit more flexibility against tough opponents or even light vehicles.

 

Rubic, like the concept...perhaps these could be sorcerous abilities applied by the AS leading the squad?

 

Plague, dont think their ranged attacks should be poisoned but I would like a return of the plague knife.

 

Noise, I disagree massively here. I think noise marines are a bit of a muddle, expensive and armed with special ranged weapons yet their mark is most useful in CC?

They seriously need a points reduction or a rethink on their mark or even a boost in CC.

 

First the Noise Marines need to either be 5 points cheaper or include the sonic blaster in their current points.

 

Then the squads role needs to be addressed.

If GW redefines the NM as more "ranged fighting" type troops then perhaps +1Bs would represent their enhanced senses (even the Acute Senses rule) as effectively as the current +1I?

 

If they go "close support" then a close combat boost would be more practical I quite like the idea of sonic vibro-knives these could be rending, but poison or a combat drug type boost would be appropriate too.

 

 

Raptors: need something to make them better then standard assault marines maybe furious charge

Bikers: less points

Spawn: less points

??????: Something else

 

Agree that all of these need to be cheaper.

 

I would like Raptors to be closer to Vanguard (more elite veterans) than (standard) Assault marines but I would be happy with Hit and run as standard and

an option (or character upgrade) that gives furious charge too.

 

Space marine bikers have the option of two special weapons and a heavy (on attack bike). Either give CSM bikers the option to take 3 special weps or

give us attack bikes (how hard can it be to nail a seat with a wheel to your bike?)

 

Spawn should cost about half as much as they currently do, have the option of taking marks (in some form) and maybe have some sort of spawn herder to

make their moment more reliable.

 

Something else? I suspect that some sort of valkarie/stormraven type thing will appear (perhaps before the end of the "summer of flyers"?).

 

 

Well if you noticed my character options you would notice cursed crozius and servo stuff was in there so reallythe night lord and the alpaha legion guy are the only real issue. I feel our lords should have some upgrade for veteran skills seeing as they lead warbands and legions in some ways not buy the right of earned leadership through a military meritocracy but by being the strongest most stubborn and most hateful in their number and with theephemeral favor of dark patron dieties.

 

Now i disagree with you on the noise marines because they exchange their bolter for the sonic weapons they are still I 5 marines with a pistol and CCW, they are also a limited devastator squad in our troops section. They are basically a squad of heavy bolters and missile launchers and the champ has an ap 3 flamer.

 

Now maybe you are right about the thing for the rubric marines that it should be an aspiring sorceror upgrade. What if the aspiring sorceror was the upgrade that gave them the special ammo.

 

As for the Raptors what if we had two types. One amore elite sorta command squad vanguard style, the other a slightly better assasult marine.

 

night lords should have hit and run as a army wide special rule. The BA have loads of fear stuff related stuff with death masks, meths scary stare and the libbys powers, i would like something like shackle soul or what ever its called to be a second army wide special rule, it may seem a bit overpowered but when you think BA, SW ND GK get its probably about right.

[Decepticon Soundwave]

It's the games workshop pendulum...our book is :cusse maybe next edition of itit will be all consuming with the power to eat babies without even putting models on the table.

[d@n]

I think we are forgetting the basics with chaos.Codex marines always had more tanks and kit and were more shooty and chaos had demonic stuff and were more choppy. Codex marines had army wide special rules and we had vet skills. Thats what GW should go back to.

[Decepticon Soundwave]

The problem was that alot of vet skills werenot being used. I think if we look at codex grey knights wemight see the new trend. Which so many things can be done with that book same with wolves too that yeah there are stronger lists then others....just there are still viable lists.

[Spacefrisian]

Apparently according to the manager at my local store the reason we are stuck with the :cusse pile we call acodex was because our previous book was a horrid mess, everyone feilded the exact same army and they decided that legions would now only represent a small part of the Chaos Family.

 

 

I wonder if that manage has been paying attention.

 

I myslelf have seen alot of different builds during that time on equal amounts, furthermore if he calls that the reason he must have mist the interview with Allesio talking about the reason as to why it was written this way....he should get the facts straight.

[Hellios]

Apparently according to the manager at my local store the reason we are stuck with the :cusse pile we call acodex was because our previous book was a horrid mess, everyone feilded the exact same army and they decided that legions would now only represent a small part of the Chaos Family.

 

 

I wonder if that manage has been paying attention.

 

I myslelf have seen alot of different builds during that time on equal amounts, furthermore if he calls that the reason he must have mist the interview with Allesio talking about the reason as to why it was written this way....he should get the facts straight.

 

The reason I loved the old codex to play against (I didn't play it at that time) is because of the 9 chaos players at that time in my group (about 25% of my group... now chaos is what 2 players in my group with 75% of the players being some loyalist marine chapter) played different legions (well we had 3 World Eaters...) Anyway the Iron Warriors gun line was totally different to the World eaters (and one of those was mech, one foot slogging and the other used daemons and bikers of khorne XD) choppy list, the alpha legion infiltration list, word bearers daemons too your eyeballs list, Death Guard creeping Death list (infiltrating PMs!) and then some black legion guys who had random stuff... the current codex creates lists that have far more in common... so what kind of drugs is that manger taking... I have to agree with SpaceFrisian.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

Apparently according to the manager at my local store the reason we are stuck with the :cusse pile we call acodex was because our previous book was a horrid mess, everyone feilded the exact same army and they decided that legions would now only represent a small part of the Chaos Family.

 

 

I wonder if that manage has been paying attention.

 

I myslelf have seen alot of different builds during that time on equal amounts, furthermore if he calls that the reason he must have mist the interview with Allesio talking about the reason as to why it was written this way....he should get the facts straight.

 

I concur, that guy doesn't know what he's talking about. At the height of 3.5, I had SEVEN DIFFERENT BUILDS in my Black Legion army alone, depending on how I felt at the time and what I wanted to play with. In comparison, I had 3 viable builds for my IG army under its previous Codex. I could do so much more with Chaos that I sold my IG because, to be honest, I didn't need them anymore. The greatest strength of 3.5 was that you could have multiple builds under the same army if you wanted to; even with the FOC restrictions for the Legion lists, there was enough in the crossover units that you didn't have to have all-daemonbomb if you played Word Bearers, all FA for Night Lords, etc etc, and you still stood a good chance of doing damage to your opposition without relying on gimmicks (unless you were just into those, and even then they were at least not boring, plays-itself ones). Now gimmick armies are rife through the game and are lauded as being the "meta". What does said manager think of the armies of today? ;)

[Trel]

I agree with KtU.

 

Back in the old days of 3.5, at least half of my playerbase was Chaos, and I never faced the same army twice. There was just so much. Now...well...lots of Chaos Thunderwolves.

 

On paper, I like the idea of simplifying the Codex and making the Chaos Space Marines a more "unified" anti-Imperial force but with so many fewer options, you'd think they've have been able to balance the units better.

 

I've always maintained that if the Codex were better internally balanced and a greater variety of lists was playable, the current codex would be tolerated, if not loved.

[Son of Rawl]

New idea for legions and it involves Marks.

 

You have your four marks for the powers which change the unit to Berzerkers, Plague marines etc..

 

But then you have Legion marks which make said unit or vehicle apart of the traitor legion giving them a way to be fielded.

 

And I am against Night Lords getting more Raptors and Hit and Run, something that affects leadership and morale is far more suited

[Hellios]

New idea for legions and it involves Marks.

 

You have your four marks for the powers which change the unit to Berzerkers, Plague marines etc..

 

But then you have Legion marks which make said unit or vehicle apart of the traitor legion giving them a way to be fielded.

 

And I am against Night Lords getting more Raptors and Hit and Run, something that affects leadership and morale is far more suited

 

Ok ok how about this... Night Lords can take more raptors (the optional here... or at least the codex allows people to make raptor cults night lords or otherwise) and can get old rule raptors had -1 to enemy ld in combat and -2 if every model the enemy faces has it!... then Night Lords special upgrade is screaming amps or some such nonsense which they can stick on vehicles... including drop pods and reduce the leadership of all enemy units within 12 by 1... or at least for morale tests... so it might not stop librarians ;) and no doubt these abillities can stack to one degree or another so you can get -3 to the enemy leadership or maybe even more!