What do you want in the next "Codex: Chaos Space Marines" ?

[maverike_prime]

You have your four marks for the powers which change the unit to Berzerkers, Plague marines etc..

 

dear god please no! I am firmly of the belief that Cult marines should be wholly separate from Chaos Marines. No ability of upgrade should allow you take a non-cult unit and turn it into a cult unit.

 

With that being said, I feel that there needs to be 7 troop types for Chaos Marines:

 

Slaanesh Noise Marines (These need to be stream lined to either be good for range, or good for CC. Right now they're just kinda-so so at either)

Khornate Berzerkers (Fix their Chain Axes so make them worth it again)

Plague Marines (Upgrade option for poison blades?)

Thousand Sons Rubric Marines (These guys really need something besides ap3 bolters. That's nice, but really, something. Please!)

Traitor Marines (Basic Chaos Space Marines. Representing the marines that have turned traitor in the last 5,000 years or so. More anti-imperium then pro-chaos)

Legionaires (The Traitor Legion. Have a system of Legion Tactics that changes based on the Lord. This way you can emphasis the different legions)

Traitor Gaurdsman (Nuff said)

[Decepticon Soundwave]

well believe me the manager talks out his arse but again I played Night Lords and under that book I had three varient Night Lords lists. I really end of the day want that back. I want to feild the company and a half of Night Lords I have again and not get butchered by new codexitis.

[TheDarkApostle]

Plague Marines (Upgrade option for poison blades?)

Thousand Sons Rubric Marines (These guys really need something besides ap3 bolters. That's nice, but really, something. Please!)

On this note, I'd like the return of Plague Knifes for Plague Marines.

 

And then I'd like Rubrics to be bumped up to two wounds again.

 

Sure that they would both be tough units, but they would be though in entirely different ways.

 

TDA

[TheDarkApostle]

Now that I think about it I can even see a fairly "simple" way to difference between Legionnaires and Renegade Astartes.

 

Legionnaires:

 

Bolter / Bolt Pistol / Close Combat Weapon

Ld 10 base

More options for special close combat weapons (maybe even unit-wide upgrade for rending?)

One vet skill of choice from list

Obvious increase in cost to balance out superiority

 

Renegades:

 

Bolter / Close Combat Weapon

Option to switch Bolter to a Bolt Pistol for free

Ld 9 base

Only options for special ranged weapons

No vet skill

Cheeper than Legionnaires

 

Something like that.

 

Which now that I look at it again is somewhat akin to the Space Wolfs Grey hunters / Blood Fangs.

 

TDA

[Decepticon Soundwave]

blood claws not blood fangs. And they cost the same points cost 15pts per model.

[Thradok]

I think what it comes down to is GW doesn't know why people play their game. People want to play the army that they want to play, the one they made their own fluff for or a specific legion. They want to use the same codex to make unique lists, not just minor variations. Give us the ability to customize the army we field as much us we can customize our army on the hobby side of things.

 

EDIT: This does not include the specific chapter Codexes, like BA or GK, obviously.

[AoC]

You have your four marks for the powers which change the unit to Berzerkers, Plague marines etc..

 

dear god please no! I am firmly of the belief that Cult marines should be wholly separate from Chaos Marines. No ability of upgrade should allow you take a non-cult unit and turn it into a cult unit.

 

With that being said, I feel that there needs to be 7 troop types for Chaos Marines:

 

Slaanesh Noise Marines (These need to be stream lined to either be good for range, or good for CC. Right now they're just kinda-so so at either)

Khornate Berzerkers (Fix their Chain Axes so make them worth it again)

Plague Marines (Upgrade option for poison blades?)

Thousand Sons Rubric Marines (These guys really need something besides ap3 bolters. That's nice, but really, something. Please!)

Traitor Marines (Basic Chaos Space Marines. Representing the marines that have turned traitor in the last 5,000 years or so. More anti-imperium then pro-chaos)

Legionaires (The Traitor Legion. Have a system of Legion Tactics that changes based on the Lord. This way you can emphasis the different legions)

Traitor Gaurdsman (Nuff said)

 

 

Rather not. I don't want to see all of them as troops. If anything should be troops, it's going to be just ONE CHOICE. Chaos Marines. Other troops i can see as unlocks (with HQ with proper loadout, mark driven. for example if you have champion [any hq selection] with mark of khorne with terminator armor, khorne terminators are troops. If you have nurgle champion on bike, nurgle bikers are troops. But if you have undivided champion with power/chaos armor without pack, all power/chaos armor troops, regardless of mark are troops, similar concept with daemons, also mark driven).

 

I feel marked units shouldn't be boring one dimensional troops, i want to see varied lists, even mono-god list should have ton of options and troops that don't play the same way (for example i don't feel that nurgle should be just about survival in form of bonus T, it should be about spreading corruption too).

 

Also, WS, 5 I 5, W 2, LD 10and inv save would be good choice for our experienced chaos marines with thousand years of combat experience, i mean, if even lowly grey knights can have such stats, chaos deserve even better stats.

[malika666]

The Legionnaires thing would only work for certain Legions. I think the Death Guard, Thousand Sons and World Eaters form some sort of exception. For the World Eaters it was stated in the Khorne Berzerkers background, something along the lines that all World Eaters are Berzerkers but not all Berzerkers are World Eaters. The same could be applied to the Death Guard and Plague Marines. The Thousand Sons are mostly automatons, except for the Sorcerers.

[AoC]

The Legionnaires thing would only work for certain Legions. I think the Death Guard, Thousand Sons and World Eaters form some sort of exception. For the World Eaters it was stated in the Khorne Berzerkers background, something along the lines that all World Eaters are Berzerkers but not all Berzerkers are World Eaters. The same could be applied to the Death Guard and Plague Marines. The Thousand Sons are mostly automatons, except for the Sorcerers.

??? It's chaos, defecting and betrayal is common (thus even newly created warband can sport legionnaires, who feel fancy enough to join/create such warband). Besides, all WE as berzerkers is really crap fluff. All legions can use legionnaires, total loyalty is not really that common in eye of terror after all.

[Hellios]

The Legionnaires thing would only work for certain Legions. I think the Death Guard, Thousand Sons and World Eaters form some sort of exception. For the World Eaters it was stated in the Khorne Berzerkers background, something along the lines that all World Eaters are Berzerkers but not all Berzerkers are World Eaters. The same could be applied to the Death Guard and Plague Marines. The Thousand Sons are mostly automatons, except for the Sorcerers.

??? It's chaos, defecting and betrayal is common (thus even newly created warband can sport legionnaires, who feel fancy enough to join/create such warband). Besides, all WE as berzerkers is really crap fluff. All legions can use legionnaires, total loyalty is not really that common in eye of terror after all.

 

 

TBH I imagine berserkers with heavy weapons who are relentless... good times...

[malika666]

How about making Abaddon truly one of the scariest and most powerful special characters in 40k?

[maverike_prime]

How about making Abaddon truly one of the scariest and most powerful special characters in 40k?

 

my suggestion for some new rule for Abs:

 

Master of Drachn'yan: Abaddon wields one of the most powerful daemon weapons ever to enter the mortal world. His Daemon Weapons adds 2D6 attacks to Abaddon's Base characteristic. Abaddon's mastery of the daemon bound with in the weapon is absolute. He does not roll for Mastery. Further more, in any assault phase where Abaddon charges roll a d6 and Consult the Table below. The Effect lasts until the beginning of Abaddon's next assault phase:

 

1: Abaddon may re-roll any failed to wound rolls this turn.

2: Abaddon may re-roll any failed to hit rolls this turn.

3: Abaddon's blade cries out for the blood of the target. He ignores invulnerable saves.

4: Unending Bliss: The princes of excess channels energy through the blade, enveloping all that are struck by it's blade in an wave of bliss and ecstasy. All enemy models in Base to Base contact with Abaddon suffer -1 to their Initiative.

5: Lightning of Tzeencth: The Daemon with in the blade has summoned the aide of Tzeentch and unleashes a violent lightning storm. add D3 attacks to Abaddon's total.

6: Nurgles blight: The Blade becomes momentairally infused with the worst of contagons, a poison that knows no physical limits. It seeps into the body of it's target and destroys it from with in. Abaddon's attacks inflict instant death.

 

 

That's just off the top of my head.

[Iron Lord]

In 3rd ed, Drachn'yen's signature trait, was auto-killing wounded targets- and auto-penetrating hit vehicles.

 

Maybe take an idea from Apocalypse and make it a Destroyer weapon?

[Son of Rawl]

In 3rd ed, Drachn'yen's signature trait, was auto-killing wounded targets- and auto-penetrating hit vehicles.

 

Maybe take an idea from Apocalypse and make it a Destroyer weapon?

 

Yup and how awesome it was, had some good times with that rule wish they bring it back

[Decepticon Soundwave]

Although I generally agree on principal that a special character like yabbadabbadoddon should only betaken in games of 3k or more having a destroyer weapon is purely for apoc. So unless we want yabbadabba to only beallowed in apoc games I suggest that maybe just maybe he have a specialized eternal warrior.

 

Arch Heretic Eternal: Abaddon has been around for so long and has battled the forces of the imperium, the eldarand various other races for over 10,000 years and has accumulated many trophies and blessings from hisdark patrons aside from having all the marks applied Abaddon has the Eternal warrior USR, however his is special there is no effect that can remove him from play unless he has taken his final wound. This includes Lukas the trickster and thegreyknights brotherhood champion.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

The only beefs I have with Abaddon's current incarnation are the daemon weapon rolling a 1 thing, and his lack of retinue. Remove the daemon weapon problem and give him access to a retinue, and his cost-prohibitive points would actually make sense.

[Hellios]

Although I generally agree on principal that a special character like yabbadabbadoddon should only betaken in games of 3k or more having a destroyer weapon is purely for apoc. So unless we want yabbadabba to only beallowed in apoc games I suggest that maybe just maybe he have a specialized eternal warrior.

 

Orks have a weapon with the larege blast template I think... that can remove all models touched by the template... now that is more like vortex weapons... and if vortex weapons can be allowed I don't see some form of attack with destroyer like qualities breaking the game.

[maverike_prime]

Although I generally agree on principal that a special character like yabbadabbadoddon should only betaken in games of 3k or more having a destroyer weapon is purely for apoc. So unless we want yabbadabba to only beallowed in apoc games I suggest that maybe just maybe he have a specialized eternal warrior.

 

Orks have a weapon with the larege blast template I think... that can remove all models touched by the template... now that is more like vortex weapons... and if vortex weapons can be allowed I don't see some form of attack with destroyer like qualities breaking the game.

 

Just because one race has it, doesn't make it a good idea. I am still vehemently opposed to Dante's Nerf-U ability and will always consider it to be a bad idea game wise.

[Hellios]

Although I generally agree on principal that a special character like yabbadabbadoddon should only betaken in games of 3k or more having a destroyer weapon is purely for apoc. So unless we want yabbadabba to only beallowed in apoc games I suggest that maybe just maybe he have a specialized eternal warrior.

 

Orks have a weapon with the larege blast template I think... that can remove all models touched by the template... now that is more like vortex weapons... and if vortex weapons can be allowed I don't see some form of attack with destroyer like qualities breaking the game.

 

Just because one race has it, doesn't make it a good idea. I am still vehemently opposed to Dante's Nerf-U ability and will always consider it to be a bad idea game wise.

 

I wasn't saying it was a good idea... I was just saying it is too late now... if you don't like rock and roll...

[Decepticon Soundwave]

hmmm I think the point is as Chaos players we are above the imperial gouda...lol

 

I think the ork power though is kinda a mishap where in you can lose a decent amount of stuff on other rolls.

[Hellios]

hmmm I think the point is as Chaos players we are above the imperial gouda...lol

 

I think the ork power though is kinda a mishap where in you can lose a decent amount of stuff on other rolls.

 

 

Yes and if you get a bad roll for a daemon weapon? Good things happen right? Personally I think they should use the old leadership based mastery.

[Brother Nihm]

Or replace it entirely with a mechanic that isn't silly and actually makes sense. :)

[Decepticon Soundwave]

Yes but mishaps with deamon weapons are only bad for the wielder ork mishaps are potentially bad for everyone. I mean guardsmen and tay ooooo don't like when a big mek with the crazy cannon does a beam me up scotty into combat with them. Not so good when that happens and it is Khorne Beserkers though.

[Warsmith Aznable]

Or replace it entirely with a mechanic that isn't silly and actually makes sense. <_<

 

I absolutely hate it when my Lord just stands there doing nothing in the middle of combat (or even kills himself...), but I really have no idea how they would make it fair, because the possibility of 15 armor save denying attacks from one dude is evil. I like the idea of a Leadership test much better than hitting myself every third round (which is how it usually pans out). He's either bringing the pain or just screwing around, so I'm afraid that any fixes would also reduce his threat level, because my Chaos Lord absolutely wrecks the place those rounds he's not fighting his own axe.

[Candleshoes]

@Max

 

Those swings are coming in at strength 4, only wounding MEQ half the time. It's punchy, but hardly broken, especially with some of the unit/equipment escalation over the last few codexes. Even when he is rolling well on it, he usually is compensating for the unit he is with, along with the wounds he could be doing at higher strength.

 

But I agree, a new system with some fresh ideas would be ideal. Heck, even using 2 dice and having it fail on double ones, but make the result catastrophically bad for the user.