What do you want in the next "Codex: Chaos Space Marines" ?

[AoC]

Crazy idea that just hit me, but what if Possessed weren't a Unit, but a Unit upgrade along side (and not exclusive of) the Mark/Icon?

 

This would allow for an opportunity to use Possessed Marines a bit more often.

Crazy idea, but what about possessed that are actually useful ? Seriously, this sound like a good idea.

 

What about allowing regular csm squads to buy upgraded characters who can pick special weapons for shooting and ranged instead of current boring 1 special weapon per 5 (and get those guys for free when buying every 5th marine)? Said mini-characters would have stats matching squad stats, but it would allow us to chaosify our forces (chaos is afterall all about freedom of choice, as long as this choice is close to violence, sacrifice etc), and make our sqads more diverse.

[Mykra]

I - I'd like to see Black Library authors do the fluff, while the dev's actually do the rules. It would be nice to see it both internally consistent with the great stuff that's come out of the Library in the last couple of years, plus keep away from the 'And my super mega dude went to the warp, totally rocked this 10,000 year old Daemon Primarch, wrote a nasty limerick on his heart, then totally went and drank some brew while wrecking a couple of daemon world's, b****es.'

 

II - Special rules back to the Chaos forces. I think one of the biggest things that takes the current Chaos Codex down is that Gav seemed to forget that you could add more than a stat-line onto models. Seeing Raptors get Hit-And-Run back, or something along the lines would go a long way to bringing the force back up to balance.

 

III - Allowing FOC changes based on HQ. Be it a rule like the GK giving certain HQ various 'techniques' to use every game, or moving cult troops to elite's and allowing the HQ's mark to unlock, I'd like to see a bit more flexibility in lists. It would be nice to break out Chaos Lord's again.

 

IV - Better point allocations. All my cult troops cost more than Grey Knights...really? Seventy points for my Thousand Sons squad leader? This is something they could have FAQ'd at least, but running 300 points a full troop selection with my best option being two plasma or melta guns in the unit is kinda crap.

 

V - Better unit options. Berzerkers having more save reducing or ignoring weapons, Thousand Sons having more than just super-bolters, Noise Marines getting their storm bolters stock and the blastmaster not at 40 points, plague marines getting some heavy weapon options. Possessed being made not so random - either buy the ability from a list, or make the abilities a bit more useful so you don't pay all that so the forces of Chaos give you the ability to scout six inches and then leave you high and dry. Chosen would be perfect to bring back the Veteran skills. Terminators need more Terminator weapons and armor options! (Power Mace and Boarding Shields, gooooo!)

 

VI - Bring back the rebel Chapter rules. Codex:Smurf's opened the door perfectly with Combat Tactics. They could just give a page of history of history, and the new Combat Tactic that replaces the 'generic' Black Legion one on the units for each of the Legions.

 

VII - Razorbacks or something similar please? We have Vindicators, so we've obviously found some way to get Post- Heresy tech up and running. I'd even take keeping the Rhino but giving it more options like the Havoc Launchers to make them a little more offensive.

 

VIII - Fix the Dreads! Put 'Fire Frenzy' as a problem that can happen when the Dread get's glances or pen'd if you must include it. I'd love to include these guys more, but sometimes I swear it feels like I'm just spotting the enemy a unit in my backfield at game's start.

 

IX - More 'Chaotic' Wargear; and that doesn't mean crap like 'Roll a D6, a 1? Oooo, you're screwed...turn to page...'. After reading the Dark Eldar Codex I was amazed at just how right and interesting a lot of the Wargear options were, even if they were kind of gimmicky or one-shot in places. I'd love, love, love to see the Ruinous powers get more of a personal touch like the Big T getting Wargear to help your casting and hurting enemy casting, Khorne getting new and interesting ways to turn you to a paste, Nurgle...being Nurgle. Who knows what the hell he'll come up with.

 

X - Daemons, bring them back please. I understand you have a Daemon army now, but that doesn't mean Chaos can't have a couple. Put them in the HQ, Elite, Fast Attack, and Heavy choices if you must to keep them limited. Let the small, cannon-fodder ones work at a 2:1 or 3:1 selection per FOC box. Up the price if you must. Running World Eaters with Bloodletter's isn't going to cut down on Daemon World armies, it's just going to sell more Bloodletter's. As a side note on Daemons: Fix Chaos Spawn, they're crap. And fix the Icons - I like the idea of them guiding the daemons to the material, I hate the idea they control my marks. 'Banner-Brother Jaraq is dead and suddenly..I feel less bloated and itchy and the flies are all gone! Man, why didn't we kill that dude earlier?!'

 

This is basically what I want to see. I don't think anything is really overboard or asking for too much.

[lokkorex]

hmm, let's see:

 

- sane hq dreadnoughts.

 

- dreadclaws

 

- some new special characters, at least one for each legion, some renegade characters, including rules for lord kaustos, and a few squad upgrade special characters.

 

- real bad-ass chosen; Ws and Bs 5, 2 attacks base, access to bikes, jump packs, maybe daemonic mounts for marked units(0-1 per army) and access to large amount of skills and special gear.

 

- a 2 wound hq choice, either an exalted champion/lieutenant or a bunch of aspiring champions, either 1-2 per FOC, or maybe like the aspiring champions from the eye of terror codex.

 

- dreads with the crazed rules from the 3.5 codex.

 

- lost and the damned; a mutant option, a traitor platoon option, and a cultist option.

 

- chaos spawn with some options for mutations or daemonic gifts.

 

- undivided icons that can summon all kinds of daemons, and god specific ones that can only summon god specific daemons, are better at summoning these daemons, and give boons akin to the current rules.

 

- rules for each legion that are NOT tied to using a special character (i'm looking at you c:sm...)

 

- possessed with daemonic gifts that are purchased, not rolled for randomly. possessed with god-specific marks get stats akin to that gods daemons.

 

- possession powers, meaning that a psyker, friendly or not, can get possessed.

 

- interesting daemon weapons instead of the generic ones we now have, bring back the dread axe and dark blade, the plague staff and berzerker mace!

 

- daemonic gifts(think daemon codex, but better, like the fantasy chaos books)

 

- daemons do not have to take psychic tests.

 

- marks, cults and legion upgrades for lords, sorcerers, terminators, fleshcrafters, tech-heretics, legionnaires, bikers and havocs: marks being undivided and one for each of the gods,

 

cults being khorne berzerkers,

devotees of excess(think damn skilled and quick fighters),

acolytes of change(think heavily mutated marines that roll for a randomly generated gift from tzeentch before deployment and with a 6+ invulnerable save),

raptors(jump pack, hit & run and warp scream),

obliterators(maybe just a free combi-weapon and incapacity to run) and

plague marines.

 

legions being world eaters(really scary melee fighters),

 

thousand sons(either scary psykers or damn tough rubric marines),

 

emperor's children(either noise marines or really scary melee fighters, these are the guys the eldar have nightmares about after all),

 

word bearers(fearless and good at summoning daemons, with dark apostles that give nearby word bearers and daemons extra boons akin to sm chaplains),

 

death guard(cloud of flies, capable of incorporating nurgling swarms into squads, maybe relentless, few heavy weapons, if any at all),

 

iron warriors(bunker-busters, not tank hunters, some kind of artillery, servo-arms for hq, something like sm techmarines bolster defences but maybe instead making a terrain feature dangerous terrain for enemy units, boons for squads holding or contesting an objective),

 

black legion(counter-attack and furious charge),

 

night lords(maybe something that messes with the opponents leadership or deployment and reserves),

 

alpha legion(scouts or maybe infiltrate, and fearless)

 

- real daemons, although some units will only be available in daemon only armies, such as daemonic cavalry and soulgrinders.

 

- more variety in armaments for land raiders and defilers, and maybe predators too, like reaper-autocannons instedad of the heavy bolter on the rhino.

 

- traitor apothecaries(fleshcrafters, upgrade for lords and sorcerers, and maybe for elite choices)

 

- traitor techmarines(tech-heretics)

 

- a split between legionnaires and renegades, the former having leadership 9 and access to heresy-era equipment and more veteran skills, and the renegades having a standard leadership of 8 and wider access to things like multi-meltas and plasma cannons.

 

just of the top of my mind, :)

 

more will come...

 

ps. if they can make five freaking codexes for the loyalists, where only two of them differs radically from that accursed book of guilliman, then they should be able to kick themselves into making one for each of the legions, and then make one extra for renegades. there, it has been said.

 

dammit GW, do something already!

[Verbal Underbelly]

I'm sure all these suggestions have been made already by one or more of you but this is what I think...

 

• Three special weapon choices for squad rather than two.

• Marks of chaos instead of icon bearers.

• Legion troops as units upgrades (eg. CSM/Havocs/Chosen with Mark of Nurgle become Plague Marines/PM Havocs/PM Chosen etc.)

• Veteran skills that may be chosen by most basic units types.

• Lesser daemons may choose a Mark of Chaos (eg. Lesser daemons with MoN get +1 T, FNP and "defensive grenades").

• More [useful] upgrade options for HQ units and vehicles.

• Psychic defense.

• Access to the full range of heavy weapons and space marine vehicles.

• Better Dreadnoughts - the rules should reflect how cool the models are!

 

I reckon that would make me happy - just the ability to field a variety of characterful and powerful set-ups.

[maverike_prime]

I'm sure all these suggestions have been made already by one or more of you but this is what I think...

 

• Access to the full range of heavy weapons and space marine vehicles.

 

I've seen this one pop up several times in the course of this thread. I would like to state my thinking on this point:

 

Predators: They predate the heresy. Every Space Marine legion had them so Chaos has them.

Rhinos: Who the hell doesn't have these?

Razor Backs: A later modifcation of the Rhino. Vehicles could be captured by CHaos forces, and adapted by the Dark Mechanicus. Would be more limited the Rhino.

 

Whirlwind: I have to go back and look, but I swear I remember seeing pre-heresy Whirlwinds. With that thought, I don't understand why Chaos doesn't have Whirlwinds.

 

Land Raiders: We all know the standard Land Raider were in service prior to the heresy.

 

LR Crusader and Redeemer: These are both later variants developed after the heresy. Land Raiders are incredibly potent vehicles and to many chapters holy shrines of a short. Loosing a predator, yeah. They may make an attempt to recover/destroy it should it's crew turn traitor. A land Raider crew goes AWOL with the raider.... yeah I don't see any chapter not going all out balls to the walls to destroy/recover a stolen Land Raider. Hence I feel that Crusaders and Redeemers should be either not in the Chaos Codex or extremely limited (Like 0-1 in the HS section).

 

Land Speeder variants: the Anti-grav systems are very difficult for the Imperium to manufacture or maintain. Chaos Marines have teious ties with the dark Adeptus which does not have the resources of the Ad Mech. Chaos Marines seem to be lacking the discipline I figure is needed to maintain stuff like Land Speeders.

 

Bikes: Yeah we got 'em.

Attack Bikes: Why the heck don't we get these?!

[Phebrickid]

My MAJOR issue with the codex is the marks;

I understand the low-powered mark for units such as termies and normal marines for when you have squads that aren't properly aligned to a power, but then you can't have termies that are ''proper'' nurgle and are as corrupted as plague marines, and the same applies to your lords - a chaos lord of nurgle who doesn't have feel no pain for nurgle, or can't take the cool sonic weapons for slannesh just irritates me, you can't have a properly themed army unless you only want to take the basic squad (berzerkers etc...) and the named character.

This could be fixed with a two-scale mark system (doesn't apply to the normal CSM squad as them upgraded will just give you the normal staple 'god' unit) so you can have proper termies or lords etc... that can have access to god-specific upgrades, basicaly a return to the older codex where there were the four books in the back which allowed you to theme an army.

 

Also along the same lines I liked the different god's daemons being availiable rather than just the one type which doesn't really fit well as any type of daemon (not killy enough for khorne, not tough enough for nurgle etc...)

 

And bring back factions such as Iron warriors(etc...)!!!

[minigun762]

X - Daemons, bring them back please. I understand you have a Daemon army now, but that doesn't mean Chaos can't have a couple. Put them in the HQ, Elite, Fast Attack, and Heavy choices if you must to keep them limited. Let the small, cannon-fodder ones work at a 2:1 or 3:1 selection per FOC box. Up the price if you must. Running World Eaters with Bloodletter's isn't going to cut down on Daemon World armies, it's just going to sell more Bloodletter's. As a side note on Daemons: Fix Chaos Spawn, they're crap.

 

I think the easiest/best way to incorporate actual Daemons into lists is put the 4 basic Troop choices for Codex: Daemons as Elite choices in Codex: CSM. Hell you could be fancy and add an Undivided Daemon like Furies if you wanted to. Same price and everything but now its limited to a max of 3 slots so you're still keeping the focus on CSMs, not Daemons.

[Iron Lord]

Or if you're wanting to simply it- introduce "basic" daemons- and have all 4 common types, be upgrades to the "basic" daemon entry- so you only need one entry, but have 5 types of daemon.

 

The Ebon Geist from Rogue Trader, looks like a good generic, non-winged Daemon.

[Flying Monkey Soldiers]

Just my thoughts...

 

* Marks of Chaos which turn units into Cult Troops. +1 WS and FC for Khorne, +1 T and FNP for Nurgle, something to do with Psykers for Tzeentch and +1 I and Hit and Run for Slaanesh.

* If it focuses on Renegades more than Legions... Land Speeders, Assault Cannons... the toys Renegades should have.

* If it focuses on Legions more than Renegades... Break out some fancy pre-heresy stuff...

* I'd say folding Codex Daemons into Codex Chaos Marines but then Chaos would have A LOT of options...

[totgeboren]

I really think they should remove the Icons, and the two-tiered marks. No matter which way you look at it, it just creates problems. And as a designer said for the 3.5 dex "Every World Eater is a Berzerker, but not every Berzerker is a World Eater".

 

The difference between an 8000 year old Khornate Chaos Marine and a 10,000 year old should be so small not to count. This would also eliminate the silly situation we have where the basic troops are more elite than their elite counterparts.

[maverike_prime]

Just my thoughts...

 

* Marks of Chaos which turn units into Cult Troops. +1 WS and FC for Khorne, +1 T and FNP for Nurgle, something to do with Psykers for Tzeentch and +1 I and Hit and Run for Slaanesh.

 

dear god no! If they go to that system I really will have to stop playing Chaos so long as that is in place. I'm sorry. Cultist marines are the results of extreme conditions, either of time or of circumstance. The Thousand Sons Rubric marines are a unique entity. There isn't some training ground somewhere that trains traitor marines to become Rubric marines. There will never be more Rubric marines. Ahirhman did a fairly good job at trashing the legion when he cast the Rubric. I highly highly highly doubt he will ever the resources to create new Rubric marines. Noise Marines are the result of thousands of years of experimentation by Fabius Bile and corruption by Slannesh. They're not made in a day, or even a decade. Plague Marines don't just come into existence at the spur of the moment. They are the result of extreme infection at the hands of Nurgle, sometimes over the course of decades, sometimes merely over the course of decades while trapped in the warp and only a few hours in the real world. Khorne Berzerkers... guys don't just wake up one day and say "Hey I want to become a froathing psychocitic killer. Hey Khorne can you do that for me?". They typically start out as a case of bitter rivalry, or martial pride. "I must beat that person!" Khorne grants them a little extra power. They beat that opponent to claim their prize. But later on they encounter something else that challenges them. So they seek more power, and khorne grants it to them. And on and on and on the pattern progresses, each step a little more power is granted, and little more blood lust is seeded until one day, many years down the line the warrior finally snaps and becomes the frothing psycho killer.

 

No. Cult marines =/= marked Chaos Marines =/= Cult Marines. That was my single biggest pet peeve in the 3.5 codex, that you couldn't run non-thousand Sons Tzeentch marines. You gave Chaos Marines the mark of Tzeentch, boom. They became thousand sons in every measurable way. No, I'm sorry. Cult Marine units NEED to be separate from Chaos Marine units.

 

I really think they should remove the Icons, and the two-tiered marks. No matter which way you look at it, it just creates problems. And as a designer said for the 3.5 dex "Every World Eater is a Berzerker, but not every Berzerker is a World Eater".

 

The difference between an 8000 year old Khornate Chaos Marine and a 10,000 year old should be so small not to count. This would also eliminate the silly situation we have where the basic troops are more elite than their elite counterparts.

 

what two-tiered marks?

[Kristoff]

I really think they should remove the Icons, and the two-tiered marks. No matter which way you look at it, it just creates problems. And as a designer said for the 3.5 dex "Every World Eater is a Berzerker, but not every Berzerker is a World Eater".

 

The difference between an 8000 year old Khornate Chaos Marine and a 10,000 year old should be so small not to count. This would also eliminate the silly situation we have where the basic troops are more elite than their elite counterparts.

 

what two-tiered marks?

 

The Two-Tiered Mark system is basically 3 versions of the basic units (Troop Marine, Terminators, Chosen, Raptors, Bikes, and Havocs, maybe Possessed). One is Unmarked, basic Marine nothing fancy (well, except for Chosen, Possessed, and Terminators). The First Mark is the second version which works similar to how the Icons work now, basically buffing a stat and MAYBE some basic wargear options (Weapon Specialists can take noise weapons, chain axes, etc). The Second Mark is the third version and completely turns the Marine into a Cult Marine, so Berzerker Bikers, Rubric Terminators, Noise Havocs, etc, with both buffed stats, Unique/Universal Special Rules, and fancy equipment access.

[maverike_prime]

I really think they should remove the Icons, and the two-tiered marks. No matter which way you look at it, it just creates problems. And as a designer said for the 3.5 dex "Every World Eater is a Berzerker, but not every Berzerker is a World Eater".

 

The difference between an 8000 year old Khornate Chaos Marine and a 10,000 year old should be so small not to count. This would also eliminate the silly situation we have where the basic troops are more elite than their elite counterparts.

 

what two-tiered marks?

 

The Two-Tiered Mark system is basically 3 versions of the basic units (Troop Marine, Terminators, Chosen, Raptors, Bikes, and Havocs, maybe Possessed). One is Unmarked, basic Marine nothing fancy (well, except for Chosen, Possessed, and Terminators). The First Mark is the second version which works similar to how the Icons work now, basically buffing a stat and MAYBE some basic wargear options (Weapon Specialists can take noise weapons, chain axes, etc). The Second Mark is the third version and completely turns the Marine into a Cult Marine, so Berzerker Bikers, Rubric Terminators, Noise Havocs, etc, with both buffed stats, Unique/Universal Special Rules, and fancy equipment access.

 

hmm. Never heard it referred to has a two-tiered mark system, but I can see what you mean.

[totgeboren]

What I ment by the two-tiered mark system is that we now have Chaos Marines who worship Nurgle enough to receive his blessing (CSM with Icons or Mark of Nurgle), and we have Chaos Marines who worship Nurgle enough to receive his blessing (The Mark of Nurgle, but this time on troops, Plague Marines).

 

Different rules for the same thing in my eyes. If we had a God-specific Codex, where each God had their own army list, I could see the point of having lots of different rules for the Mark of X, but now, when we have a combined codex, that is supposed to allow us to represent all the Legions, and Renegades too, I don't think having different rules for Marks on some troops compared to the same Mark on other troops and characters makes any sense.

 

And worship of specific gods are a kinda all or nothing deal. You can't be a half-time Noise Marine. Those that don't go overboard have the Mark of Chaos Undivided, and those who who don't worship the Chaos Gods have no mark, not even the Mark of Chaos Undivided.

[AoC]

What I ment by the two-tiered mark system is that we now have Chaos Marines who worship Nurgle enough to receive his blessing (CSM with Icons or Mark of Nurgle), and we have Chaos Marines who worship Nurgle enough to receive his blessing (The Mark of Nurgle, but this time on troops, Plague Marines).

 

Different rules for the same thing in my eyes. If we had a God-specific Codex, where each God had their own army list, I could see the point of having lots of different rules for the Mark of X, but now, when we have a combined codex, that is supposed to allow us to represent all the Legions, and Renegades too, I don't think having different rules for Marks on some troops compared to the same Mark on other troops and characters makes any sense.

 

And worship of specific gods are a kinda all or nothing deal. You can't be a half-time Noise Marine. Those that don't go overboard have the Mark of Chaos Undivided, and those who who don't worship the Chaos Gods have no mark, not even the Mark of Chaos Undivided.

Why can't we have something that is neither 2 tier system nor 1 tier system ? Both are boring and pure nonsense.

 

It should be fluid mark system (mark does not give anything by itself, but allow user to get gifts from patron god, just that).

[Tzimisce169]

here is my 2p's worth.

 

1: i want the option of possessing my dread but in doing so reduce it's BS to 3 and get rid of the insanity.

2: I want proper cult troops. I don't want termies with the mark of khorne - i want world eater termies.

3: FGS bring back the legions.

4: Obliterators seriously need fixing. I like the whole "energy weapons only" thing but S:4, T:4 and only 1 power fist........did the writers actually look at the model or not?

5: a meshing of the daemon codex and the chaos marine codex to the point where a "chaos" player can take an all marine army, all daemon army or a mixture of both.

6: bring back the hatred between the gods, i'm sick of seeing Slaaneshi princes leading a deathguard army. Fluff-wise this would not happen so why do it in game.

7: God specific vehicles.

8: army selection mods based on who/what leads your army.

9: didn't the legions have techmarines? shouldn't they be a choice in the codex?

10: sacred numbers and free champions. this was a brilliant idea - bring it back.

 

ok thats all for now but i'm sure there are laundry list of things

[Kristoff]

Why can't we have something that is neither 2 tier system nor 1 tier system ? Both are boring and pure nonsense.

 

It should be fluid mark system (mark does not give anything by itself, but allow user to get gifts from patron god, just that).

 

So basicly everything becomes like 3.5 Posessed? This is something that GW has walked away from. From one stand point, it's a far more robust system, but I wouldn't expect it pass through the initial brain storming session.

 

The reason behind the 2-Tier Mark system is a simplified collection of Unique Special Rules. It also provides a fluff reason behind the game rules.

[AoC]

Why can't we have something that is neither 2 tier system nor 1 tier system ? Both are boring and pure nonsense.

 

It should be fluid mark system (mark does not give anything by itself, but allow user to get gifts from patron god, just that).

 

So basicly everything becomes like 3.5 Posessed? This is something that GW has walked away from. From one stand point, it's a far more robust system, but I wouldn't expect it pass through the initial brain storming session.

 

The reason behind the 2-Tier Mark system is a simplified collection of Unique Special Rules. It also provides a fluff reason behind the game rules.

 

It's a bit different, as possessed have no god-specific gifts and is applied on entire squad, not per model.

 

They walked away from late 4ed design system, too.

It would allow varied mono-god armies.

 

Two tiered system lack variety, as all units from single god fulfill the same niche thus mono-god armies are boring like hell from in-game perspective. Having different gameplay options for each god would make the codex better (for example some nurgle units may be more resilient while second may affect opponent units in proximity with noxious clouds and the third nurgle unit may become concealed from enemy fire via swarm of flies that surround them). Having just resilient and more resilient is not as fun.

[totgeboren]

I hope they reconsider the current, (and this goes for the previous codex too) philosophy where Cult units can only perform one task. Berzerkers can only be equipped for close combat, Plague Marines can only be equipped for firefights, TS can only be bodyguards for Sorcerers and so on.

 

I would much rather see for example Berzerker having all the same options as normal Chaos Marines. If the Mark of Khorne gives you say +1 attack and furious charge, most Berzerkers will run around with pistols anyway. However, not allowing them proper special weapons only adds a restriction that forces Khorne players to pick something else for say tank-busting in the case of meltagun. And allowing them boltguns wouldn't really mess anything up.

 

Just about everyone wants a Plague Marine with a heavy bolter. Plague Marines have all the same options as normal CSM, except a heavy weapon if they number 10 or more. And really, not many would rather pick a heavy weapon instead of a second special weapon, especially if you need 10 PM in order to access it!

 

Special weapons for TS is an incredibly easy fix, allowing TS players to make much more interesting armies where you have options on how to construct your force.

 

A Khorne or Tzeentch- themed army has got no other option than "Infantry go after infantry", therefore they must use their other units as anti-tank units. By limiting the core unit in god-specific armies like they have, they are also limiting every other option in the codex, because they are built around the core.

 

I say a mark should be mark. The mark of nurgle should do the same no matter who has it. But instead allow people the option of tooling their marked squads for different tasks, by giving them access to all the same options as normal chaos marines.

 

In order to keep normal CSM units as a competitive choice (very important for me, since I play WB), they have to first of all be costed appropriately. Also, No More Icons! Cant stress that enough. Allow them the option of the Mark of Chaos Undivided or a skill.

 

I would also like Cult troops to be elites, unless the Lord has the proper mark. A system like the Sagas of SW characters would also be perfect, where you can pick different abilities, like making all Cults troops, or turning your Lord into a Dark Apostle, or allowing you say some outflanking schenanigans and reserve-roll modification (for AL) and so on.

 

A bit less extreme special rules, but more options for different army compositions.

[lokkorex]

totgeboren: you've made some very good suggestions, i don't think i've ever read a single piece of background that said the thousand sons didn't use heavy weapons and special weapons pre-heresy, and it's death guard legionnaires that i know didn't prefer heavy weapons, not all the other marines through the years that's fallen to the favour of nurgle.

[Hellios]

I'm happy to have a god upgrade as long as there is a cult upgrade... aka I want Khorne terminators who are as good as zerkers but inside terminator armour and with different weapons not just terminators +1 attack...

 

As for Tzeentch... it seems that most of the people who follow him are psykers/sorcerers (or become so after following him...) they could make it an invulnerable save for all tzeentch worshippers and then rubrics have 2 wounds... or maybe some brotherhood of psykers like the grey knights have to show them as low level sorcerers... which would stop the stupid 700pt squads of chosen aspiring sorcerers... although they are cool in Apocalypse :P

 

As for why Rubrics don't have special or Heavy weapons... apparently it is because the Rubrics cannot deal with more complicated weapon systems than the Bolter... although I'm not sure they are that complicated compared to the bolter... My prefered method would be to balance the sorcerers out so that they are not overcosted for what they do or so they they actually kick ass and it is like having a librarian in each squad!

 

-EDIT-

 

Also people we are nearly at 1,000 posts... can the rage of chaos players make a topic last that long XD heh this is mad.

[Brother Nihm]

It is longer in fact, if you go back 4 years on the B&C alone and tally up all the rage/dislike/constructive criticism posts from unsatisfied Chaos players - let's stop right there actually, because that doesn't even bear thinking about..

 

Given how GW has worked the market (meaning us players and collectors) in the past though, I think that we are in for waiting several years more before we will see a new book.

[totgeboren]

totgeboren: you've made some very good suggestions, i don't think i've ever read a single piece of background that said the thousand sons didn't use heavy weapons and special weapons pre-heresy, and it's death guard legionnaires that i know didn't prefer heavy weapons, not all the other marines through the years that's fallen to the favour of nurgle.

 

Thanks, and you made an important observation here. Death Guards didn't prefer heavy weapons, but Plague Marines =/= Death Guard. In the current fluff, there are Black Legion Plague Marines. And I really really hope they get rid of the "über" marks for the troops and the half-hearted mark/icon for everyone else.

 

If they did that, you could have your very own Chapter that has fallen to say Nurgle or Khorne, and fights in whatever way you want them to fight. Just because you like Khorne does not mean you must want a World Eater army, that follows World Eater organization.

 

Don't the codex speak of the Knights of Blood (or something like that?) that are Blood Angel successors that have fallen to Khorne? They would still be marines who have trained and fought by the Codex Astartes for hundreds or thousands of years. I doubt they would all just throw their heavy and special weapons away, and suddenly abandon their tactical and strategical skills.

 

Let people play the warband/chapter/Legion of their choosing. Making the marked core troops extremely one-dimensional serves no purpose other than making the codex suck.

[AoC]

Making the marked core troops extremely one-dimensional serves no purpose other than making the codex suck.

QFT. Sig worthy.

 

Unfortunately, thats what GW are is trying to do atm :D

[the jeske]

If they did that, you could have your very own Chapter that has fallen to say Nurgle or Khorne, and fights in whatever way you want them to fight. Just because you like Khorne does not mean you must want a World Eater army, that follows World Eater organization.

ah so focus on renegades . Hmm how strange they did that with this dex and it didnt work . I mean where are those post on the forum about "I made the other red khorn marines can you help me with the list" ? I dont see them on the forums not just the ones run in english .

 

I would rather have a WE army and a DG army that have different game play , then have the "option" to run countless renegade armies that all look identical . + Personaly I find the whole focus on renegades making little sense . Legions were huge organisations and unlike a few hundred strong/company sized warbands [that have no supplies or support] , them surviving in the eye does make sense .

 

 

They would still be marines who have trained and fought by the Codex Astartes for hundreds or thousands of years.

and after you get marked to khorn you gom"kill kill kill" . khorn worshipers are monothematical at least in the non FW fluff. + our own codex tells us that as soon as a marine goes rogue they throw away every form of boundry they had[and a book telling you how stuff should be done is just that] .