What do you want in the next "Codex: Chaos Space Marines" ?

[Hellios]

Never said I don't like it Helios, I just thought to clear the argument between Lexington and Malverike Prime. And 'general' options are good, like more heavy support. But they way I see it, and I could be seeing it wrong, is that Malverike doesn't want 'general' options, but he wants that there are rules like 'If you play Iron Warriors, you are forced to stay behind the deployment zone till you destroyed half of the enemy units'

 

this quote makes me think so:

. If anything, the fluff should dictate how the armies work

Now again, I could be reading it wrong, or he could have wanted to explain it in a diffrent way, if that is the case, I'm sorry, but my point is that hard coded fluff rules make a game less enjoyable for players. Don't get me wrong, I love fluff. I'm insane enough to make all 9 legions, even buying and painting 5 Daemon princes to have evry mark covered.

All I want to say is that even though people like fluff and such, don't be too specific in you're 'I want this'. Think about the bigger picture, be more 'general', think about evry Chaos fan, mono-legion or otherwise ^_^

 

If I misinterpreted this all, accept my apologies and ignore the post :P

 

Well I think by fluff (not having a go here) different parts of an Iron warrior warband (which may be larger than a space marine chapter) will fight in different ways and have different roles. For example the people who pound away from 20miles away should they be attacked (say by a drop pod force that has got past the front lines) would fioght in a different way from the Iron Warriors who role it is to take the hole in wall once it has been made. I don't think (and I could be wrong) that Malverike Prime wants to force people to play in a certain way but wants people to be able to do so if they wish. If we think about it most armies are not that fluffy but instead represent a caricature of the army. In the small fights that get played most ofthe time the Eldar Avatar will most likely not be there but the Avatar is an important aspect of an Eldar force so we like to draw him in. In the same line of thought Iron Warrior long range artillery will not be in every fight and certainly would not be in the 4 by 4 area many people play on... However again it is an important apsect of who the Iron warriors are and so people like to show it. Right or wrong human nature tends to focus on what is different rather than what is the same.

[Lay]

I'm all for a return to Legion specific rules. We were given variant lists because of how popular themed armies had become (and still are). I prefer that approach which literally gives me what I want over the current one which is just artificially boosting the importance of SCs.

 

Besides, players who don't care about Legion specific rules have nothing to lose here. As long as there's a vanilla list in the Codex, their preferences aren't affected in any way.

[goldenwonder]

[Note - just personal opinions - some thought out and some from top of my head and most probably already put forward]

 

A return of Legion rules - just one page per legion as per Codex 3.5 would be enough along with some supporting fluff. (I would hasten to add for example (off top of my head with no concept of testing whatsoever :P ) different types of cultist for Alpha's and Word Bearers and something to better represent the Nigh Lords than just greater numbers of Raptors) As per 3.5, a return of god specific upgrades for vehicles, particularly Sonic Weapons for Slaanesh/Emp Children vehicles.

 

As per 3.5 these would modify the core list, allowing adequate flexibility to represent renegades for those who would prefer to do so.

 

A return of Ancient Enemies (really a Slaanesh Daemon Prince leading a warband of Bezerkers? :) ), the enmity between Space Wolves/Thousand Sons and the Blood Angel hatred of the Talon of Horus (e.g. all models within x range become subject to rage or something similar?)

 

Marks of Chaos not icons.

 

Daemon Princes & Chaos Lords being a 0-1 choice - either one or the other representing their status and authority within their warband. Outside of Apoc, I cannot see a warband being led by two Daemon Princes.

 

Chaos Lieutenants - a second in command/apprentice was something I was extremely fond of in the 3.5 'dex and something I would love to see again.

 

Two tiers of Sorcerer (2w/3w for example) (on a similar note - Thousand Sons sorcerers which replace champions - same points but with 2 wounds and a free power perhaps?)

 

Dreadnought Fire Frenzy - reworded to go for nearest enemy unit first targeting own troops only if no enemy is in LofS or range.

 

Dreadclaw Drop Pods.

 

Access to veteran skills for Chosen/Terminators.

 

Possessed that can purchase specific mutations (as per 3.5)

 

Limited access to Daemons from Codex Daemons (with greater numbers of a god-type permitted if army leader has that specific mark). Choice restricted by generals mark - e.g. MofS - Slaanesh Daemons Only or MofCU choice from all in lesser quantities of unit - perhaps an allowance for Word Bearers in line with fluff.

 

God specific Daemon Engines or upgrades for the Defiler.

 

From a fluff perspective - I'd like to see this side better written, perhaps integrating some of the events of the Heresy novels or Chaos Novels such as ADB's Night Lord series or Anthony Reynolds Word Bearers series or allow contributions guided by the direction to be taken by the codex author from BL writers (i.e. Dan Abnett/ADB/Graham McNeil/William King). The fluff should reflect that Chaos warbands can consist of Legion-specific forces (though a shadow of their former glories) and as warbands consisting of warriors from different legions and renegade Space Marines.

 

Finally I'd love to see Phill Kelly write the Codex - I'm a fan of his work on the Dark Eldar and Space Wolves and from a fluff PofV the Craftworld Eldar.

[Gaz Taylor]

Limited access to Daemons from Codex Daemons (with greater numbers of a god-type permitted if army leader has that specific mark). Choice restricted by generals mark - e.g. MofS - Slaanesh Daemons Only or MofCU choice from all in lesser quantities of unit - perhaps an allowance for Word Bearers in line with fluff.

 

Downside with this is that it creates loopholes as players will only pick Daemons which are powerful. I'm quite happy with generic Daemons (maybe mark them as well) as it shows Daemons assisting the CSM but not being summoned fully (so not that powerful)

 

Finally I'd love to see Phill Kelly write the Codex - I'm a fan of his work on the Dark Eldar and Space Wolves and from a fluff PofV the Craftworld Eldar.

 

I think Phill would be a good author for the codex (and he's a nice bloke in person) but I feel that it's going to be a joint effort due to the amount of things people would like GW to cover. I would like to see a big chunka lunka codex rather than one which has been cut down to try and get it all to fit in the current page count

[maverike_prime]

Never said I don't like it Helios, I just thought to clear the argument between Lexington and Malverike Prime. And 'general' options are good, like more heavy support. But they way I see it, and I could be seeing it wrong, is that Malverike doesn't want 'general' options, but he wants that there are rules like 'If you play Iron Warriors, you are forced to stay behind the deployment zone till you destroyed half of the enemy units'

 

this quote makes me think so:

. If anything, the fluff should dictate how the armies work

Now again, I could be reading it wrong, or he could have wanted to explain it in a diffrent way, if that is the case, I'm sorry, but my point is that hard coded fluff rules make a game less enjoyable for players. Don't get me wrong, I love fluff. I'm insane enough to make all 9 legions, even buying and painting 5 Daemon princes to have evry mark covered.

All I want to say is that even though people like fluff and such, don't be too specific in you're 'I want this'. Think about the bigger picture, be more 'general', think about evry Chaos fan, mono-legion or otherwise :)

 

If I misinterpreted this all, accept my apologies and ignore the post :)

 

you are sort of missing my point, but it's more my fault then yours Caboosebe. I'm not saying that if you play an Army called "Iron Warriors" (Your name for your army) that you absolutely must use heavy ordnance and sit back behind the deployment line. If you want to load them down with Bikes and Close Combat fud-fuds and paint them hot pink but still call them Iron Warriors go for. Just keep in mind you're going to get a lot of people asking you what you're smoking. I guess the best way I can explain this is as follows:

 

The Iron Warrior, Death Guard, Alpha Legion, World Eater, Emperors Children, Night Lords, Black Legion, and Thousand Sons are the key representative groups of the Chaos Space Marines. Just like the Salamanders, White Scars, Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists, Raven Guard, and UltraMarines are the key representatives of the Space Marines. In both cases the armies listed use different tactics with different styles of forces. There should be rules that allow us to build our armies to represent those different forces. Weather we choose to call them by those particular names is immaterial. For reasons of simplicity we just call them "Armies", but I am NOT saying that a player who runs 2,000 points worth of marines that are painted white with red and yellow lightning bolts that are called White Scars has to have 15 biker marines!

[Hellios]

The Iron Warrior, Death Guard, Alpha Legion, World Eater, Emperors Children, Night Lords, Black Legion, and Thousand Sons are the key representative groups of the Chaos Space Marines. Just like the Salamanders, White Scars, Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists, Raven Guard, and UltraMarines are the key representatives of the Space Marines. In both cases the armies listed use different tactics with different styles of forces. There should be rules that allow us to build our armies to represent those different forces. Weather we choose to call them by those particular names is immaterial. For reasons of simplicity we just call them "Armies", but I am NOT saying that a player who runs 2,000 points worth of marines that are painted white with red and yellow lightning bolts that are called White Scars has to have 15 biker marines!

 

Take that Word Bearers... Here but forgotten :)

[maverike_prime]

The Iron Warrior, Death Guard, Alpha Legion, World Eater, Emperors Children, Night Lords, Black Legion, and Thousand Sons are the key representative groups of the Chaos Space Marines. Just like the Salamanders, White Scars, Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists, Raven Guard, and UltraMarines are the key representatives of the Space Marines. In both cases the armies listed use different tactics with different styles of forces. There should be rules that allow us to build our armies to represent those different forces. Weather we choose to call them by those particular names is immaterial. For reasons of simplicity we just call them "Armies", but I am NOT saying that a player who runs 2,000 points worth of marines that are painted white with red and yellow lightning bolts that are called White Scars has to have 15 biker marines!

 

Take that Word Bearers... Here but forgotten :)

 

BAH! I knew I was forgetting someone. Hey I've been running 18 hours days since before Thanksgiving. I'm entitled to forget one annoying Psycho-zealot legion.

[Magnus Thane]

Nothing. But by the same point nothing is given for painting your CSMs Boltgun metal and calling them Iron Warriors either.

I don't really see what's wrong with this - there's nothing that's particularly different, structurally, between the "undivided" Legions. They have their specialties in warfare, but it's not like there's ever been unique Iron Warrior Siege Squads or anything. A Chaos Space Marine is a Chaos Space Marine is a Chaos Space Marine, just as its been since the 2nd Edition Chaos Codex fifteen damn years ago.

 

Yes, during the IA/3.5 Chaos Codex era, you had specialty "Legion Lists" in the back of the book, but these were inherently ridiculous; nothing about letting some Plague Marines tag along to the battlefields makes Iron Warriors suddenly lose their siege abilities or muddles the trickery of the Alpha Legion, so why did only "Legion Exclusive" lists gain these abilities? It's silly, and I'm glad to see the backside of that ugly trend.

 

Imagine if in the next Space Marine Codex you have Rules for playing Ultra-Marines, and then you have rules for playing non-ultras. Not rules to play Salamanders or White scars, just non-ultramarines. Limiting the likes of the Iron Hands, Imperial Fists, and Crimson fists to be nothing more then names and colors. Do you think the Space Marine players would like that?

Well, that's the situation now, and I don't hear a lot of complaints about it. Sure, there's a few special characters in the book that play around with army-wide rules, but not every Imperial Fists army is led by Lysander, and, despite his surprisingly frequent appearances, you can actually make Salamander armies that aren't attached to Vulkan He'stan's wacky crusade. Without them, these Legions look and play identically to an Ultramarine force because they all hold more or less to the military structure laid down in the Codex.

 

happy chaos family ?different legions working at warband level or even squad level .

Once again, we're talking about concepts that've been canonical since the mid-90's. Open up a 2nd Edition Chaos Codex, and you'll find a story running throughout the book about a Night Lords raid that utilizes Berzerkers and Noise Marines. Contrary to the strange origin myth that's penetrated the Chaos Marine community over the last few years, Chaos did not simply spring fully-formed from Pete Haines' brow, armed with Legion lists and ultra-customizable Daemon Princes. The 3.5 Chaos book was a hiccup in what's otherwise been a fairly well-established army list.

 

 

A LOT of good points! A cookie for you, good sir!

[chaplain belisarius]

we just need more options in the next dex...more crazy fluffy chaotic nastiness (marks of chaos, mono-god armies, legion rules)

 

I agree with phil kelly writing the next dex...that guy writes a darn fine dex! :)

[caboosebe]

you are sort of missing my point, but it's more my fault then yours Caboosebe. I'm not saying that if you play an Army called "Iron Warriors" (Your name for your army) that you absolutely must use heavy ordnance and sit back behind the deployment line. If you want to load them down with Bikes and Close Combat fud-fuds and paint them hot pink but still call them Iron Warriors go for. Just keep in mind you're going to get a lot of people asking you what you're smoking. I guess the best way I can explain this is as follows:

 

The Iron Warrior, Death Guard, Alpha Legion, World Eater, Emperors Children, Night Lords, Black Legion, and Thousand Sons are the key representative groups of the Chaos Space Marines. Just like the Salamanders, White Scars, Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists, Raven Guard, and UltraMarines are the key representatives of the Space Marines. In both cases the armies listed use different tactics with different styles of forces. There should be rules that allow us to build our armies to represent those different forces. Weather we choose to call them by those particular names is immaterial. For reasons of simplicity we just call them "Armies", but I am NOT saying that a player who runs 2,000 points worth of marines that are painted white with red and yellow lightning bolts that are called White Scars has to have 15 biker marines!

 

Sorry, my bad. I was thinking you would have players forced into playing style rather then giving them the option of playing that style ^^ My bad, and I apologize :(.

[maverike_prime]

No need for appologies Cabbosebe. I should have phrased my response a bit better.

[Black Hand]

Having gone off and thought about it, I would like to see a little more leeway as to what could make up an effective army and yet still "work," for those who like their fluff.

I mean, I actually kinda like the current codex, as it's a fairly solid one as codexes go. Lord knows we could be the Necrons right now, for example. The real problem lies in the bareness of the unit options; a lot of people would like to do certain cool little things that they remember from the previous codex, and that I can understand. Personally, I wouldn't mind a codex similar to the current SM one in terms of functionality and design, with legion-specific rules doled out by special characters or something similar and the rest of the units somewhat more usable for all. It wouldn't be as super-customizable as the previous codex, but hey, there'd be something to work with at least.

[Chengar Qordath]

So, could we get a general agreement for a well-balanced codex that's flexible and has enough options to allow a fluff-accurate portrayal of all the major Chaos factions without unreasonably restricting anyone's ability to play a Renegade, DiY, or other non-legion force?

[Borinar]

How about:

 

Marks for vehicles, ideas:

 

Khorne - Tank Hunters, Rending Weapons, re-roll tank shocks or +1 ramming?

Nurgle - (-)1 on damage chart rolls, 4+ cover save at all times or +1 Armor?

Slaanesh - +1" movement, scout, stealth or infiltrate?

Tzeentch - Vehicle psychic power, Skimmer/Fast or open topped with 5+invulnerable save?

 

Better Fast Attack options.

 

Daemons in units as upgrades? <cough bloodletters on bikes, or juggernaught calvery>

 

More Chaos Land Radier sponson options instead of a variant.

 

A reason to bring a chaos lord other than hinding in a transport. Perhaps a much cheaper cost.

 

Special Characters for each Original legion as well as some traitor bands.

[Black Hand]

So, could we get a general agreement for a well-balanced codex that's flexible and has enough options to allow a fluff-accurate portrayal of all the major Chaos factions without unreasonably restricting anyone's ability to play a Renegade, DiY, or other non-legion force?

 

Yep, I can settle for that.

[maverike_prime]

So, could we get a general agreement for a well-balanced codex that's flexible and has enough options to allow a fluff-accurate portrayal of all the major Chaos factions without unreasonably restricting anyone's ability to play a Renegade, DiY, or other non-legion force?

 

Could we? sure we could. But then we'd no longer be Chaos.

[maverike_prime]

How about:

 

Marks for vehicles, ideas:

 

Khorne - Tank Hunters, Rending Weapons, re-roll tank shocks or +1 ramming?

tank hunter on a tank? Am I only that raises an eye brow at that idea?

 

Better Fast Attack options.

Well yeah. I mean can we PLEASE get Chaos Trikes already?

 

Daemons in units as upgrades? <cough bloodletters on bikes, or juggernaught calvery>

Eh from a fluff stand point I'm not too keen on this idea. The Daemons codex makes it pretty clear that daemons don't like humans, and I've always gotten the sense that with the exception of Daemons that have been bound to human masters, Daemons in the Chaos forces are fighting the same enemy as the chaos marines, they are not fighting for the Chaos marines.

 

More Chaos Land Radier sponson options instead of a variant.

Eh, I'd rather have a varient that could be dedicated to a particular purpose (Tank hunting, Infantry slashing) rather then just "Plasma Cannon Sponsons"

Special Characters for each Original legion as well as some traitor bands.

 

I had actually started work on some Special characters to address the legion points. Lemme see if I can pull up the stuff for 'em.

 

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a316/maverike_prime/Warhammer/ferrosus.gif

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a316/maverike_prime/Warhammer/erator.gif

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a316/maverike_prime/Warhammer/zhal.gif

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a316/maverike_prime/Warhammer/argos.gif

 

That's my 2 kraks. Well okay, I'm up to like a Whirlwind payload at this point. But still there they are.

[David the Despoiler]

Chaos Space Marines - As is.

 

Marks for Chaos Space Marines - As is, Icons each have a special rule (Fleet for one turn for Khorne, Feel no Pain for one turn for Nurgle, d3 to either Initiative, Attack or Strength for one turn for Slaanesh, +1 AP or STR to all weapons for one turn for Tzeentch)

 

Legionnaires - 2 attacks profile, Vet Skills for extra points, Marks turn them into Cult Troops (AKA Berzerkers, Thousand Sons, etc). Otherwise, same as CSM. (They are a troops choice)

 

Chosen - 2 attacks profile, ws 5, Vet Skills for extra points, Marks turn them into Cult Troops. Any model in the unit may be upgraded to an Aspiring Champion. Champions have access to basic armory (power weapon, lightning claw, power fist, etc). Up to 5 models may take Special Weapons in the unit, may be upgraded to use one of the following: Terminator Armor, Daemonic Mount (depends on Mark), Jump Pack or Bike.

 

Possessed - Champion upgrade (possession gift depends on Mark. +D3 attacks for Khorne, +D3 wounds for Nurgle, +D3 WS for Slaanesh or a Psychic Power for Tzeentch). If unmarked, gain +D3 WS. (All models in the same unit that are possessed roll at the same time at the beginning of the game).

 

Khorne Berzerkers - As is, but add Rending.

 

Thousand Sons - Allow access to Special/ Heavy Weapons, give each special (or heavy) weapon an enscorcelled stat-line. For example, an AP3 Flamer, a plasma gun that doesn't overheat (since when does glassed sand feel pain?), a melta gun with an extra 2 inches of range (and an extra inch of melta range), a missile launcher that gets AP4 on its Frag Missile and AP1 to Krak Missiles. Optional Sorcerer. Slow and Purposeful remains. Give them GRENADES!

 

Noise Marines - Feel no pain, I6, Sonic Blasters made into Assault 2 AP5, range 18 or heavy 2, range 24, AP4. No Cover Saves. Blast Master stays the same, except it also ignores cover.

 

Plague Marines - Toughness 5 (no brackets!), Defensive Grenades, I3. Points cost reduction.

 

Those are the only real original thoughts I have on changing things up...

 

Make an upgrade for Lords akin to Sagas for Space Wolfs. One for each Legion. Then add a "fluffy" restriction (like the Space Wolfs), for example on the Mark the units under his command can have and the units he can or cannot take. This may replace an army-wide Special Rule like "For the Glory of Chaos!" (Re-roll failed moral tests) with something Legion specific (to show they're not after the Glory of Chaos, they're after vengeance on the Imperium) like Army-wide Outflanking, while the Character and any unit he joins (as well as their transport) may pick any table edge to come on from. Army-wide Fleet, while the Character and his unit move like Beasts. Just examples, not well thought out at all!

 

I feel that this would appeal to both the players that feel the need to have the Rules hold their hands and tell them how to play their Legion, while at the same would offer enough combination and individuality for those players that want to make a character with particular traits. This way we don't restrict those that want to be unique and we give those that want properly displayed rules for Legions.

 

There's more that I want, but I won't go into detail over it. Most of it has already been mentioned (although not extrapolated upon, such as Daemon Weapons) and some has already been fairly said many times (0-1 restriction on Daemon Princes).

[Dammeron]

- A single, flexible army list that can be tailored quite easily and with a minimum of fuss by players without the overly baroque applications of the 3.5 Codex. How can this be done? Quite simply:

 

- Establish a more tried and tested "Mark" system over the ridiculous "icon" system,i.e. any Chaos model may purchase a Mark of Blah or a Mark of Bleh for blah-blah points. The Marks serve as simple stat upgrades (e.g. +1A for MoK, +1T for MoN). All models in a single unit must purchase same Mark. From here, Chaos units open up options to purchase particular upgrades depending on what Mark they have (for example, models with the MoN may purchase the "Plague Marine" upgrade, in which they gain the abilities associated with that particular "cult"). All models in a unit must purchase the same upgrade. Models with the Mark of Chaos Undivided may purchase a single upgrade redolent of the existing legions (for example, if you want your marines to be Night Lords, they may purchase the "Night Stalkers" upgrade in which they gain Stealth and impose a -1 Ld penalty on any enemy unit they successfully charge in assault).

- Using this system it would be very easy to create an entire army of one of the established cults/legions, whilst also mixing and matching the upgrades across one's army to produce more tailor made Renegade forces. Very easy to implement.

- It also opens up the possibilities of having more than one chaos "cult" associated with each Chaos power. For example, models with the mark of Tzeentch may purchase the "Spirit Warriors" upgrade for blah blah points, in which instance they become classic Thousand Sons automata, but they may also choose to purchase the "Weaver of Fates" ability, in which instance the unit may make a single re-roll of certain specific dice per turn.

[Notanoob]

@Dammeron

 

I already did something like you mentioned. Very close to a few other ideas in fact, but my post seems to have been ignored. :P I'll repost it here:

 

I'm just going to throw an idea out there for the whole legions and renegades stuff...

 

Options:

regular stuff for CSM squad...

remove personal icons/squad icons

May select one of the following:

Khornate(+1A)...x points per model

Nurglich(+1T)...x points per model

Slaaneshi(+1I)...x points per model

Tzeentchian(+1InvSv)...x points

Alpha Legionary(A2 Ld10, Infiltrate)...x points per model

Black Legionary(A2 Ld10, essentially Chaos Chosen without infiltrate)...x points per model

Death Guard...(A2 Ld10, +1T, FNP, Fearless, Defensive nades, only may take special weapons)x points per model

Emperor's Child(A2 Ld10, +1I, Sonic Blasters as option for every squad member, Blastmaster, Sonic Pistol, Doom Siren)...x points per model

Iron Warrior(A2 Ld10, Tank Hunters/Stubborn/reduces enemies or improves own cover save)...x points per model

Night Lord(A2 Ld10, Stealth, Acute Sense, -1Ld to enemies in CC)...x points per model

Thousand Sun(A2 Ld10, AP3 Bolters (Heavy, Storm, Pistol, Combi), Relentless Aspiring Chap replaced with Sorcerer)...x points per model

Word Bearer(A2 Ld10, Fearless, not sure what else though, something to do with Daemons?)...x points per model

World Eater(A2 Ld10, +1WS, A, Fearless, Furious Charge, maybe FNP?, no bolters and no weapons options but replace every 8th bolt pistol with plasma pistol)...x points per model

 

The Squad may take a Chaos Icon, it functions as a teleporter homer. If the model with the Icon is killed, assume another squad member picked it up.

 

Thus, you can represent any legion, their cheaper initiate cousins/Renegades, but without the restrictions that 3.5 dislikers dread. Just throw this hunk on every infantry unit, include some changes based on unit (ex. Nightlord upgraded Raptors become troops), and the appropriate upgrade possibilities for vehicles (Destroyer, warp fire, bodies strapped to it night lords style etc.) then you're a good ways there.

 

After the above throw in Cultists, Beastmen and the Daemons dex (with the ability to run them alone, so as not to deny anyone anything), add Dark Mechanicum stuff in the vein of Forge World's stuff, fix a few other things (NO insanity rule for the dread in any way shape or form, possessed choose mutation, reasonable point costs on FA choices, usable lords/sorcerers) and you've got everything.

[d@n]

GW could make the currant codex alot better by putting out a FAQ cutting maybe 15-20% of the point cost of everything. I mean everything is worse in the csm codex compared to the imperial.

[caboosebe]

GW could make the currant codex alot better by putting out a FAQ cutting maybe 15-20% of the point cost of everything. I mean everything is worse in the csm codex compared to the imperial.

We're still an edition behind, remember that.

[d@n]

GW could make the currant codex alot better by putting out a FAQ cutting maybe 15-20% of the point cost of everything. I mean everything is worse in the csm codex compared to the imperial.

We're still an edition behind, remember that.

I know but thay only released the codex a few years ago so its unlikely that gw will release a new one any time soon, and it was thrown together, i mean the steel brethren prefering drop pods and then not giving us drop pods, a fast attack choice with slow and purposeful and forgetting to give the land raider our machine spirit equivalent .

[Spacefrisian]

Maybe GW should start those small codexes again like back in the day when they had Codex Craftworld besides the regular Eldar codex.

[Brother Nihm]

Maybe GW should start those small codexes again like back in the day when they had Codex Craftworld besides the regular Eldar codex.

Late 4th ed. GW stated that they didn't want to do books for sub-lists any more, like the EoT codex for example - so I doubt we'll see that again.