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What do you want in the next "Codex: Chaos Space Marines" ?

maverike_prime

By maverike_prime
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Brother Nathan Venerable Brother

Brother Nathan

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i disagree, deamons should have their own dex. dont see why they should rely on marines to be able to be felided compleately. them havng a dex makes sense. yet i would like the deamons rules from the old dex. And the addition of plaguemarines only having plague bearers, etc. for the legion specific armys. wouldnt be good thousand sons summoning khron bezerkers. would be balenced but no fluffy...

and probably no greater deamons...dont see them answering the call of a legion.

Dark Apostle Thirst Venerable Brother

Dark Apostle Thirst

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Daemons should have their own Codex, simply because it expands their fluff and how people view them. If they don't have their codex, you lose all that fluff that you could give them... unless you want to use up space in the Chaos Space Marine Codex that could be spent on giving fluff for the Chaos Space Marines.
Captain Juan Juarez Venerable Brother

Captain Juan Juarez

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To be honest, i think the problem whth Chaos forces in general is that their are so many options in fluff but none of them are really realised in rules the way their Imperial counterparts are.

 

Ideally there should be a mini-series of Chaos Codices; Marines, Guard/Rebels and Daemons.

Captain Idaho Venerable Brother

Captain Idaho

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Definitely, a Chaos Renegades for most of the Legions & those humans that are deviant Chaos worshippers, plus a Chaos Powers esque Codex for the 4 Legions that are most associated with Chaos & the Daemons seems like the most practical option.
Brother Nihm Venerable Brother

Brother Nihm

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Daemons should have their own Codex, simply because it expands their fluff and how people view them. If they don't have their codex, you lose all that fluff that you could give them... unless you want to use up space in the Chaos Space Marine Codex that could be spent on giving fluff for the Chaos Space Marines.

 

They made do in previous editions, 2nd edition in particular.
Yep they made do just fine. I'd take daemons with flavour and variety (+ established fluff) over Generic any day.

 

I wouldn't want them included in C:CSM though, in the way they are presented in C:Daemons.

But some sort of alliance rule/shared forge Org allowance (in the 'dex), akin to the old editions wouldn't be a bad thing.

MagicMan Venerable Brother

MagicMan

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I always liked the way the Chaos 'Dexs were interchangeable.

 

 

Even way back when i used to play fantasy, you could use Warriors of Chaos/ Beastmen / Daemons of Chaos in one army.

 

 

Using units from the other army books used a special or rare choice, they could do the same and make it use up an elite slot or something.

Artein Veteran

Artein

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Warriors of Chaos and Daemons of Chaos were one army, Hordes of Chaos. And yeah, units were taking different slots depending on army general, so there were basically two army lists, Mortals and Daemons with same units in one Army Book.

Beastmen of Chaos were different army but you could use HoCh units in BoCh and BoCh units in HoCh.

Lexington Venerable Brother

Lexington

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Personally, I've never understood what the heck the Daemon Codex is supposed to represent. I mean, sure, there's exclusively Daemonic invasions, but they're immensely rare, and their implementation in the game of 40K doesn't make any sense, background-wise - "the Ultramarines were heading to Wal-Mart one day, fully armed and equipped for battle, and suddenly some Daemons showed up!"
Dark Apostle Thirst Venerable Brother

Dark Apostle Thirst

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Personally, I've never understood what the heck the Daemon Codex is supposed to represent. I mean, sure, there's exclusively Daemonic invasions, but they're immensely rare, and their implementation in the game of 40K doesn't make any sense, background-wise - "the Ultramarines were heading to Wal-Mart one day, fully armed and equipped for battle, and suddenly some Daemons showed up!"

I would actually put them more home in Apocalypse fluffwise - Ultramarines head over to beat some Chaos Marines, Chaos Marines summon daemons who appear as they are with the current codex.

maverike_prime Venerable Brother

maverike_prime

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Personally, I've never understood what the heck the Daemon Codex is supposed to represent. I mean, sure, there's exclusively Daemonic invasions, but they're immensely rare, and their implementation in the game of 40K doesn't make any sense, background-wise - "the Ultramarines were heading to Wal-Mart one day, fully armed and equipped for battle, and suddenly some Daemons showed up!"

 

It was meant to represent a new source of in-flow of money for Games Workshop. Like you said, fluff wise full demonic-incursions are extremly rare. Like wise 90% of demonic incursions are prempted by cultists actions or Chaos Marines campaigns. It is exceedingly rare for a full blown Demonic incursion to occur of it's own devices and actions.

Brother Nathan Venerable Brother

Brother Nathan

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really they should be more in clutist lists than chaos marines, like a choas marines would need the help of deamons beyond taking bulletsinsead of his actaul troops... and actually the deamon incursions seem to be quite prevalient in the fluff with things going wrong with warp drives and gellar feilds failing etc. considering that the majority of travelin the imperiumis done through the warp that does actualy leave probably more space for deamons than other armys (dark eldar come from one planent...)

Actually codexes that chaos could do with would be like:

codex chaos legions

codex renegades(main focus probably huron blackheart and the likes)

codex chaos space marines and black legion

codex cultist /chaos guard/meat sheild(though it is possible to do ths using codex imerial guard but you have no models. maby having mirror models like straken and some dark mechanicum master adept)

codex choas deamonic incursion(ie each would have a few deamons, but theis them alll)

codex dark mechanicum (although codex mechanicum.. mirror dex?)

 

 

And maby a few others, like some anti deamon hunters or some such. or an inquisitor hunter? but as it is thats like tripling the curent chaos models available... of course id still likeall founding chapters legions to have their own dexes...

Sangneur Battle-Brother

Sangneur

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First things fist (yes, fist, we're that crazy) I'd love to see Phil Kelly and Jes work on our book. Even though I didn't like somethings in DE, I thought space wolves was great.

 

I want to warn you before you read my throbbing wall of man-gush that it's definitely opinionated, and will never happen so lose your sanity at your own risk. I'm working on a fan dex originally just for myself for the fun of it, but a couple of people have asked to see it when it's done so I may actually point it and try and balance it. Either way, the book uses a lot of my beliefs listed here. I'll try not to rant too much for those who actually read this monstrosity.

 

What I want the next book to look like is be a fairly generique one that covers all the bases for everything, not extensively mind you but reasonably. For example: I want units that can take the MoTz, and seperate Rubric Marines, but I don't want them to add a unit of psychic robits from a Thousand Sons. The book should cover all the legions, and not go to the extent of the 3.5 book which from my observation had to make up stuff to make sure everyone was a snowflake. Word bearers with extra troops? Why? They use lots of troops, that's easily represented by the player taking, get this, lots of troops, not giving them extra troop choices. Covering the legions is pretty simple, because all you need to do is give some special abilities to troops, or make HQs unlock stuff like troops or wargear. To flesh out the army a bit, add a couple of Daemon choices, and add a few mortal troop choices to flesh out the troop slot since the cult troops should move into the elites slot. Renegades don't really need much to represent them, maybe different wargear for some stuff, most of the tech has been retconned to have existed in the heresy, and tech was BETTER then, so the idea that our gear is old and therefore worse/decayed doesn't hold much water.

 

After that book (which shouldn't be too thick, as it only requires options that move choices to represent the legions, and the addition of a couple of choices) I'd like to see a second book. This is where my idea becomes a unicorn that'll will never be, by the way. In this book, it would contain the choices to make a Lost and the Damned, Chaos Daemons, and Traitor Legion army (mortal slaves having been added in the previous book), by adding and changing some choices.

 

The Lost and the Damned army would add to the mortal choices, allowing additional HQs of mortal followers, in addition to the existent HQs, add a couple of elites (Big mutants etc.), and move some choices around, making CSM elites or whatnot. This list should be able to represent an army of mortals, and army of mortals prodded by CSM, an army of mortals with Daemonic backing, or a mix of the three.

 

For the Chaos Daemons army, it should allow daemons to be the HQ of the army, allow heralds, and permit more Daemons than were allowed in the previous book to be used. This list should represent a full on daemonic incursion, a cult summoning a horde of daemons, a CSM army with lots of Daemons summoned, or get this: a Word Bearers army, since it can have Daemons as troops and CSM as elite backing.

 

For the Traitor Legions, the book should contain very little on these, because very little should be required, for some armies, only a couple extra rules should be needed, maybe some extra wargear, and some restrictions, the Thousand Sons for example may get those shiny robots in here, or extra psychic powers.

 

/rant

 

If I try and edit this too much I'll end up ranting even more, so I'd better leave it at that.

 

P.S: I also want GW to wrap up all the SM into a book like this, and then have a little book that shows you how to collect a SW, BT, DA, or BA army, since they all share the same units, with a couple of additions/subtractions.

 

Edit: I'm addicted to commas

subtlebrush Novitiate

subtlebrush

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I would love to see...

 

  1. Daemons and their respective Greater Daemons either come back as they were, Bloodletters, Daemonettes etc. OR just keep them out of the list entirely.
  2. If daemons are done with, bring back Cultists. If not, still bring back Cultists.
  3. Split the "Renegades" from the "Legions".
  4. DREADCLAWS! For the sake of all that is unholy give us DREADCLAWS!!!!!!!

 

Other then all that I would say to just spice it up a bit. Give Chaos more variety, the Chaos Space Marine Codex should be as big if not more then the Standard Space Marine Codex page wise and rules wise. Look at the current Chaos Codex, they just barely go into the Horus Heresy. They both have loads and loads of fluff to distribute.

Captain Idaho Venerable Brother

Captain Idaho

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It's almost as if the Codex regards the Horus Heresy as a minor event eh? The "charm" of Chaos Marines used to be that they were the very same traitors from 10,000 years past, something that was always included in Chaos Marine Codex books in the past. The emphasis has since been changed. Obviously a fluff consideration, but I felt an important one.
Sangneur Battle-Brother

Sangneur

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It's almost as if the Codex regards the Horus Heresy as a minor event eh? The "charm" of Chaos Marines used to be that they were the very same traitors from 10,000 years past, something that was always included in Chaos Marine Codex books in the past. The emphasis has since been changed. Obviously a fluff consideration, but I felt an important one.

 

This is something that first got me into chaos. In most settings the evil races are either all young brats, or an ancient evil that rules through brats. But in 40k the main vallains are all ancient evils, they're not weak, they're strong, and cunning. The Most elite forces aren't the noble and courageous good guys, they're some terrible monsters that live in the spatial equivalent of hell. They're also the best and brightest man ever produced, and they're the enemy.

 

But a lot of the recent stuff says they're young brats that die in the hundreds (see Codex: Ultramarines, Alpha Legion Vs. White Scars and Ultramarines), and those who don't like Abaddon apparently suffer from storm trooper syndrome. Though I doubt a storm trooper could botch as much as he has.

subtlebrush Novitiate

subtlebrush

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Yeah it seems everything in the "current" Codex is just plain BLAH. Even the artwork. I went thru my 3.5 edition codex earlier and it still manages to inspire me even now to start a Chaos army. The current edition however just seems way too focused on the renegade forces and although Dave Gallegher IS a professional artist (and has many AMAZING pieces) his work in this book (which it seems was only him to work on) just seems... rushed and bland. If they could bring out the big guns ( Paul Dainton, Alex Boyd and Karl Kopinski) again for the next edition and spice up the rules I think they could produce a very good Codex. I mean grab a copy of the last edition and look at all the examples of Chaos Marines on every page, just gets the imagination rolling.
Captain Idaho Venerable Brother

Captain Idaho

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It's funny in a way; the most recent Codex Chaos Marines is pretty unpopular after the success of it's predecesor, yet it is the same generic format people moan about Codex Space Marines NOT having!
Brother Nihm Venerable Brother

Brother Nihm

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It's almost as if the Codex regards the Horus Heresy as a minor event eh? The "charm" of Chaos Marines used to be that they were the very same traitors from 10,000 years past, something that was always included in Chaos Marine Codex books in the past. The emphasis has since been changed. Obviously a fluff consideration, but I felt an important one.
hammer + nail + head.

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