Tank Shock vs MC/ Assault question

[Badaboom]

Hi Brothers,

 

just finished a friendly 2000 pts match against Tyranids, and we have faced a couple of strange situations, plus some other questions have arised:

 

-I wanted to multi-assault a unit of Warriors and Hormagaunts, and I was right in front of both units, with the Warriors barely 3 inches to my left. My flamers consumed the Termagaunts completly, leaving none standing, so it seems I was not able to assault at all. As a result, my squad was assault by three Tyranid units later on (they surprisingly survived three rounds of combat and ebded up winning the fight with some Hammernator help).

 

-Is this correct? Or should I be able to assault another unit if the original one has been completly obliterated? It seems stupid to me to have an enemy unit right in front of you and do not be able to charge it in this situation.

 

-Can I Tank Shock a MC? I have had many chances to do it during the game, but my friend told me it was just silly that a Carnifex could be killed by a charging Rhino (provided the Carnifex failed the Victory or Death! attack).

 

Thanks for reading, guys.

[Leonaides]

Yup first question is correct - because you killed the whole unit of gaunts, you cannot charge them, therefore you cannot multi-charge into the warriors also. This is why you have to think very carefully before shooting too many things at a unit if you want to multi-charge.

 

Secondly - nothing to say that aMC cannot be tank-shocked. I dont care how big and tough a carnifex is - if a Rhino runs over it its getting flattened by 20-odd tonnes of angry metal, and will end up the thickness of a pancake, and the consistency of a deep-fried mars bar (squidgy with occasional crunchy bits).

[dswanick]

Secondly - nothing to say that aMC cannot be tank-shocked. I dont care how big and tough a carnifex is - if a Rhino runs over it its getting flattened by 20-odd tonnes of angry metal, and will end up the thickness of a pancake, and the consistency of a deep-fried mars bar (squidgy with occasional crunchy bits).

CRUNCHIES!!!

 

Where's Thade?!?

 

CRUNCHIES!!!

[Techmarine Data007]

I'm tempted to try that now, should I come up against a MC with a suitably handicapped vehicle.

 

"TANK SHOCK!!"

"Wait, what...?"

[Dan VK]

Secondly - nothing to say that aMC cannot be tank-shocked. I dont care how big and tough a carnifex is - if a Rhino runs over it its getting flattened by 20-odd tonnes of angry metal, and will end up the thickness of a pancake, and the consistency of a deep-fried mars bar (squidgy with occasional crunchy bits).

CRUNCHIES!!!

 

Where's Thade?!?

 

CRUNCHIES!!!

 

:D

[Tanhausen]

You know that a MC has S+2D6 to open the vehicles armour... right? That better be a really wasted tank and a desperate situation!

[Frosty the Pyro]

this is why MC rarely choose death or glory as oposed to just corgaly steping out of the way. Although I personaly think MC should follow the same rules as a walker (aka has to be rammed, not tank shocked, with an effective armor value of 6+toughness for determining the damge to the rammer), because by fluff monsterous creatures are larger and stronger than all but the toughest walkers, and a rihno running into one would far more likely crush its front armor on the Monsterous Creature's leg than run it over.

[Leonaides]

I never said it was necessarily a good idea - but just occasionally the MC rolls snake-eyes and goes splat. That sort of Hail Mary move gets remembered for years to come, wherever old warhammer-ers get together for a few brewskis (or similar).

[Disruptor_fe404]

Happens more often than one might think, between extra armour and Monstrous Creatures rolling Armament Destroyed results fairly often.

[vonny]

Which is why, if the MC is in synapse range or otherwise fearless, it'll step aside, charge the vehicle in the ensuing tyranid turn and rip it to shreds at it's leisure.

[breng77]

Yeah the only reason to Death or Glory would be on turn 5 to prevent an objective being contested. A carnifex would auto glance a rhino, a 3 on 2D6 would pen. THough it is still possible that the MC would roll a 1 or 3 (so about a 33% cahnce) and not stop the vehicle. Which is why people rarely do so. The only time I will almost always D -o-G is with an AP 1 weapon (melta especially) THe odds of you stopping the vehicle is exceedingly high (79%) as you have a 76% chance of penetrating and only the roll of a 2 does not stop the vehicle..

[Grey Mage]

Unless they have EA or equivilant, in wich case your back to the 1/3 chance.

[breng77]

No you would not b/c with AP 1 the vehicle is stopped on a 1, 3, 4, 5, or 6 on a pen and 3,5,6 on a glance. EA eliminates the 1 (pen) and 3 (glance) Results. On a tank shock (rhino) a melta weapon glances 5.6% of the time(2/36) and penetrates 91.7% of the time. So You have about a 63% chance of Stopping a Rhino W/ Extra armor. Other vehicles obviously the percent chance goes down (AV 12 is 73.6% in no EA, 58% with EA, AV 13 65.7%, and 51.8%, and AV 14 44% and 34.2%) This of course does not take into account open topped vehicles (easier to stop) things like Holofields, energy shields, Flicker fields, the monolith, many of which make the odds much worse.

[Isiah]

We're straying into areas that aren't OR issues per se – interesting number-crunching though. But those tactical efficiency issues should be discussed elsewhere.

 

Cheers

I