Logan Wing beating advice

[Necronsftw]

I play a DoA list and am having trouble fending off a Logan wing list? Is there any advice or help, he has 3 thunder wolves 15 long fangs 3 long wolves. All this 3+ invuns and cover saves 3+ from stealth is beyond annoying. So is there anyway you can help!

[SnorriSnorrison]

To counter the Thunderwolves, it might be a good idea to hold a unit of DC with or without JP in reserves, include a Reclusiarch or even Lemartes and give them powerweapons. Reroll to-hits and to-wounds at init 5 is not very nice, at least not for the enemy. :P

 

You can use Vanguards to react on his longfangs and one or two Baals as well, give them a nice lead injection to the face. If you cause enough wounds, the save does not matter.

Also, missile launchers often have problems with armour 13.

 

I´ve used a Furioso Dread in drop-pod when facing longfangs. Drop it next to the unit, pop smokes and await the shooting. one unit of 5 longfangs should not be enough to explode it, so he must fire on the Dread with his other units, which helps your other units.

 

Lone Wolves are a problem indeed, and I haven't faced them that often. Maybe somebody else can give you some advice on this.

 

Well, that's it from me. I hope it was helpful for you.

[Necronsftw]

The lone wolves will differentially be a big problem! That is something I really need to counter!

[DV8]

Lone Wolves were designed specifically to tank damage. They pose threats to whatever they face and were designed to withstand tremendous amounts of damage. A competent Space Wolf player that uses them will equip them with Terminator Armor, Storm Shield and Chainfist, which gives them a resilient 2+/3+ save with FNP and EW stacked on top.

 

However, Lone Wolves of all types are severely limited in speed, and without a transport of some kind will constantly struggle if they are forced to redeploy constantly. As you play DoA/Jump Infantry, it's not difficult at all to simply avoid Lone Wolves.

 

Now I should mention that a GOOD Loganwing player takes Lone Wolves specifically to hold their line, and you won't be able to avoid them if you want to hit the rest of their army (think of them as the enemy blockers in football). Thus you have two direct choices. Maneouver around them, or hit them so hard you blow right through them. Swamp them with melta/pistol fire and use power weapons on combat. Deny that FNP save and they will fail enough 2+ or 3+ saves eventually.

 

If the Loganwing player hasn't taken any Rune Priests for psychic defense and offense (a good one will have them though) then consider taking Mephiston. With Sanguine Sword, Wings of Sanguinius, and Fleet, he's fast enough to catch up with and take out Thunderwolf Cavalry with ease. He also had a high enough toughness and wounds to tank any hits that might return his way.

 

Lastly, consider taking some Drop Pod units (Death Company?) perhaps to drop in front of the Long Fangs, blocking LoS and forcing them to redeploy and/or deal with the immediate threat.

 

Above all remember a proper well built Loganwing army is designed specifically to tank the hits it takes, and hammer the enemy back. Its the Space Wolf equivalent of Deathwing, but far more flexibility. Your goal is to identify and surgically strike at the various support elements to remove the "pillars" that hold up their defensive and/or offensive line.

 

 

DV8

[Necronsftw]

Well I do not know how Mephiston would go agaist a storm shield and thunder hammer, thunderwolf cav unit! Now the list he uses is something along the lines of this his troops will be wolf guard but they will have a squad of 6 1 guy in terminator armor with a cyclone missile launcher the others are in power armor with a various amount of power weapons and wolf claws.

[Morticon]

Fear of Darkness libbies work wonders. Just make sure what you're hitting isnt near Logan so he gets no reroll.

[Necronsftw]

Alright just remember the thunder wolves are all in single squads

[Ranwulf]

Two Furioso Librarians Dreads hitting with CC weapons, with a Priest close to them to Furious Charge.

 

Very, very capable to killing Thunder Wolf Cavarly.

 

Long Fangs: Go with Vanguard Veterans.

 

Remember, one of the main advantages of Jump armies are the speed and manouverabilty. You HAVE to be the one controlling the table, not you enemy. Don't "react" to his squads. Just because he let a Drop Pod with Termies somewhere, YOU are the one suppose to choose what to kill or not.

 

Ran

[Gv0zD]

Remember, one of the main advantages of Jump armies are the speed and manouverabilty. You HAVE to be the one controlling the table, not you enemy. Don't "react" to his squads. Just because he let a Drop Pod with Termies somewhere, YOU are the one suppose to choose what to kill or not.

 

Ran

 

I concur. That's the point of having DoA list as I see it. 

As for Fear of Darkness, as Mort said it should do pretty well against his Long Fangs.

 

EDIT: Oh, and DV8 provided good advice on dealing with Long Fangs - Drop Pod DC in front of them. Should work too, IMHO.

[SamaNagol]

Power Weapons kill Lone Wolves when you cant avoid them. Missile Launchers are hardly effective against a list with no vehicles, focus on his units which will actually hurt you.

 

Thunder Wolves you can take down with furious charging Death company and a chaplain. Especially if there is only one of them per unit

[Necronsftw]

Some very good responses I will be trying it out today

[SamaNagol]

Astorath is actually very good for making short work of Terminators with his high I, S6 axe which Re-Rolls to hit on the charge and makes all invulnerable saves re-roll. And he fits in with your DOA theme.

 

If you can't afford him, I would 100% find points for Lemartes in a unit of 5 DC with Jump Packs and a Thunder Hammer, Power Weapon and an Infernus Pistol. Lemartes after taking a wound is an untargetable monster in combat.

[syypher]

Astorath is actually very good for making short work of Terminators with his high I, S6 axe which Re-Rolls to hit on the charge and makes all invulnerable saves re-roll. And he fits in with your DOA theme.

 

If you can't afford him, I would 100% find points for Lemartes in a unit of 5 DC with Jump Packs and a Thunder Hammer, Power Weapon and an Infernus Pistol. Lemartes after taking a wound is an untargetable monster in combat.

 

I have no experience with using DC in a JP/DoA army like the original poster but have you tried this before? I don't see how they will fare well against TWC, especially with an HQ attached that gets more +A for what he killed last round. When you DS in their 19-24" threat range will probably catch you. And if you DS far so that way he can't catch you rage will just take over your guys.

 

I'm making a DoA/JP army myself and am very hesitant to include DC since I can't control them. Sang Guard/ Chaplain/Priest maybe? I'm not sure how to deal with them with a DoA/ JP army effectively either...

 

Best way I know of is rate of fire but DoA armies don't really have that option.

 

I do have a 10x VV squad with SS and PW/PFs in it but I don't think that can keep up with the TWC+HQ combo. Their 2+ and 3++ is superior

[SamaNagol]

The TWC and HQ option is pretty costly, you are looking at 250+ for the ThunderLord and then however many points for the 3 TWC with Shields and one Hammer. And most Lords will be taking Saga of the Bear, unless it is a 2 TWL list?

 

If your Vanguard can tank the charge and have models left then hopefully you have something on the board like a unit of Sang Guard or Death Co that can actually get a charge off on the TWC.

 

It is a pretty Elite army but you really need to be able to use your VGV like screening units in Warmachine to protect that nasty stuff behind them. 10 VGV with Storm Shields are actually one of the most vital parts of a working DOA list, in my opinion.

 

DOA BA lists are like Crit Specced Warriors in World of Warcraft. They can't tank as much damage as their Protection specced equivalents, the Space Wolves in this instance, but if they can actually get a charge off, they will definitely do more damage.

 

I do like a unit of DC in a DoA list for 2 reasons, you can drop them behind the enemy lines and not worry about them being kited, cos they will get to charge SOMETHING. And secondly, most people are so terrified of Death Company that they will focus fire into them at the expense of touching your scoring Troops and shiny Elite Assault troops.

[Crynn]

For god sake will peopl stop recomending deathcompany for this. the fact is you will have to go to him with your list. so when your dc drop next to the lone wolves all that will haopen is they will get hit with missile launchers that dny all their saves and then charged by a unit of SW to finish them off denying all the bonuses of having a chaplian. It is a waste. Vang vets are a much better option. Do not deck the entire sqauad out with SS as they with out a priest will then just die to boltguns and normal cc attacks which the sw have many of. Give them some power weapons maybe a shield or 2 if you feel the need, kill the entire long fang squad on deep strike, then probably die when you get counted but at least they will have taken up a threat and absorbed fire and done some dmg to another squad, that is a good outcome. If all he has is missile launchers then AV 13 runs supreme. Unfortunately you want to run a full DoA army I take it, otherwise i would have suggest Vindis especially if he has squads of TWC, if they are all seperate units or have SS it will be less effective but it will also mean he has a large number ok KP's or a really expensive squad. Meph can go toe to toe with a SWCLord but while they will probably take each other out it is a waste of mephs potential. You may be better off using the sanguinor against him who is actually specifically against a TWCLord more likely to ome out on top as well as providing some nice little army buffs.

 

Lib dread with wings and shield will be nice if you can get them into his normal squads even if the have a single str 8 power fist you should be fine and they with wings are fast enough to get there on there own terms, normally i do not advocate lib dreads but if all he has is missile launchers and no melta on guys in transports hell do very well. Also consider using honor guards to get your priests it is the most point efficienmt way to get a priest with a JP, also he cannot be targeted out and is not an additional KP, the HG are also an amazing squad, give them a few LC's and SS's a banner and a lib with unleash rage and they mulch terminator or and greyhunter squad, afew meltas doesnt go astray either. Which leads to my next point you NEED to kill things at i5, get a lib with rage and sword, If this guy is such an ass to take 15 long fangs let him know that sang sword is a once cast (by raw it is) then use unleash rage on the lib and the HG as well and they will kill a squad on their turn every turn before they can even retaliate. Also the psychic defence is usefull but im presuming he doesnt have a rune priest thank god.

 

I am not saying you are definately going to win this as against his army a mobile AV 13 spam will work better but you can definately bring it to him. He has a tough list with long wolf lone wolf spam with a TWCLord so dont go easy on him.

 

Good luck with your future games.

 

Regards,

 

Crynn.

[Necronsftw]

I can give them the free glavie encarimne on the sarg for free, I might do that for the power weapon

[SamaNagol]

I love how you poo-poo DC as an answer, then offer up the Librarian Dreadnought which will get lit up like a fireworks display by 2 units of Missile Launcher Long Fangs.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

In my experience against Logan wing, they usually took terminators with SB and PW rather than your typical TH&SS configuration due to cost efficiency. If this is the case than you can beat them in CC with good (FC) initiative and power weapons, like from a Sanguinary Guard for example.

 

Vindicators will also help a lot and you may even consider outflanking Flamestorm Cannon Baals - but it sounds like you are not running any tanks?

 

Do you have a storm raven? I agree that longfangs will love your dreadnought as a target marching across the board, but delivered in a raven he is gold.

 

Otherwise you could DS vanguards into his shooties and ruin their day with a drop assault and focus everyone else on the termies.

[Brother Nathan]

vindicators, nough said. rember str 10 insta kills wolves, and he has to spread those wounds inflicted...

[Necronsftw]

But he does have his 3++ invuns on his space wolves