Culexus

[Zerib]

I have never run the Culexus, I normally run Callidus or Eversor, but with more and more psykers do you think it is becoming more viable? Also the possibility of pinning in conjunction would be interesting. I do realize that at the end of the day there are better over all units to spend the points on but I am still curious as to what others may think.

[Brovius]

In apocalypse, Culexus + a few IG Psyker battle squads = ultimate death.

+1 S5 AP1 shot from the Animus for every psyker within 12" is nuts when paired with IG

[Hellios]

I have never run the Culexus, I normally run Callidus or Eversor, but with more and more psykers do you think it is becoming more viable? Also the possibility of pinning in conjunction would be interesting. I do realize that at the end of the day there are better over all units to spend the points on but I am still curious as to what others may think.

 

The culexus has always been useable it just requires more thought and it is certainly better against some armies than others. I used to take one fairly often in 3.5 and 4... My inq stuff stays at home now because I'm on other things.

 

In apocalypse, Culexus + a few IG Psyker battle squads = ultimate death.

+1 S5 AP1 shot from the Animus for every psyker within 12" is nuts when paired with IG

 

While I've seen this done (in apocalypse and normal games) it isn't that great because it means your psykers may not do much... the assassin has a short range which means that both will be close enough for the enemy to reach out and touch. In apocalypse it isn't a very good idea because you have so much firepower on the table that the assassin or the psykers (even in chimeras... you could stick them in a land raider) will be killed.

[Gentlemanloser]

Culexus, usable?

 

Useable, yes.

 

Most effective choice for it's points/slot, no.

[number6]

IMHO, "usable" depends on how willing you are to stretch the definition. Sure, technically, anything in any codex is "usable" to the extent that you always have some chance to pull off a useful tactic or kill with the unit in question. But I think Culexus assassins are "useful" to the same extent that Fast Attack Grey Knights and Purgation squads are "useful". Which is to say: for all practical purposes, they really aren't "useful". They're wastes of points and force org slots. Don't bother.

 

The only assassin that has maintained its utility all the way to today is the Callidus. Even she's overcosted, but at least she can still be depended upon to actually do something.

[Gentlemanloser]

Not disagreeing with anything #6 posted. :D

 

That's the bottom line really!

[Zerib]

I am in agreement with number6. I was just curious is all if anyone had used it and it consistently was effective. So far the Callidus is number one in that spot with the Eversor following in at a close 2nd.

[Chengar Qordath]

I don't think the Culexus can ever be consistently effective, since all of its good abilities are just too dependent on the opponent's army list. Dark Eldar, Tau, and Necrons have no psykers at all, and it is by no means unusual for any other army in the game to have no psykers in the list. Facing a psykerless army leaves the Culexus pretty weak, and if if he's up against an army with a way to negate his Soulless ability through Stubborn, Fearless, or some other morale-boosting ability then it gets worse.

[Gentlemanloser]

While the Eversor is second, it's not close.

 

He's second only becuase the Culuxes and Vindicare are more rubbish.

 

With the inability to rde in a transport, even if he is good at CC you're never going to get him there. Any sane opponent will just shoot him before he makes CC.

 

The Callidus is only good, becuase (apart from her AWIYE which is usually always useful, unless you face the ever more common full reserve army) of her unique deployment.

 

This places her exactly where you need her, for maximum template and CC damage, to troops you either *need* to take out, or are weak enough you can reliably expect her to destroy.

[Zerib]

I feel that he is a close second because as long as I go first I should be able to charge. As well he becomes a target priority especially if I put him out of line of sight. It will force the enemy to either back up or move forward to engage him.

[Chengar Qordath]

To be fair to the Vindicare, there are times when his sniping ability can be very useful, like knocking out hidden Powerfists/Klaws or getting rid of Sanguinary Priests, Apothecaries, or any other rule-giving models. He's still not a good choice, but there are times when he can be very useful.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Actually with any of the Assassins you have to be careful which one your going to take against any particular army.

 

Firstly the Vindicare, now he is great for taking out power clawed vets/seargants and such. But ive had use for him to take out Farseers or Warlocks in Eldar armies. He is great for taking out Hvy weapon teams too. And never forget that with a good shot is capable of putting a hole in any tank. Ive taken a Baneblade out with mine.

 

Callidus, well ofcourse alot of people are going nuts over this girl. Appears, drops a template on you and then assaults you with a weapon you wont get any save from. AWIYE is good to, for moving something vital before the game.

 

Eversor, well if you want a homicidal maniac that blows up when killed he is your man. Just use cover and screen him were possible before he assualts your enemy. Can take it to any HQ squad.

 

Finally my favourite Celexus. Now you all say not worth the points, really. Dont forget that this guy if he s withing 12" of your enemy (and you too) will have a max LD of 7. Nothing stops this rule so far. So now take a LD test/Pinning, Perils of the Warp and Moral test and see what happens. If used right it doesnt matter he is against a Psykerless army. Ive used him against a SM force with no Librarians, and seriously hurt him. If used right you can push your opponents army right off the board clearing a whole corner. Remember if there withing 6" of you they have to pass a Moral check (at LD 7) or fall back. If they want to shoot or charge you, pass a LD test first.

Back him up with a Dreadnought or tank and seriously watch your opponent screw his face up trying to kill him.

[Gentlemanloser]

I feel that he is a close second because as long as I go first I should be able to charge. As well he becomes a target priority especially if I put him out of line of sight. It will force the enemy to either back up or move forward to engage him.

 

He's not fleet. You'll never get a first turn charge.

 

And highly doubtful of a second turn one either, if he's the only mini you have infiltrating. And if you've sunk more points on DCA to infiltrate with him.... Oh well. B)

 

Can take it to any HQ squad

 

No, he can't. Even with a lucky number of attacks roll! There are numberous single HQs that will eat him for breakfast. The cheapest being probably the Avatar or Skulltaker. Plus not having any Grenades will just make your opponents use thier own cover to neutralise his CC effectiveness.

[Chengar Qordath]

I feel that he is a close second because as long as I go first I should be able to charge. As well he becomes a target priority especially if I put him out of line of sight. It will force the enemy to either back up or move forward to engage him.

 

He's not fleet. You'll never get a first turn charge.

Don't forget that the Eversor can assault up to 12" thanks to his combat drugs. First-turn charge with an Eversor is quite possible.

[Inquisitor Fox]

Also remember that infiltrators can outflank. Should the enemy player make a mistep in his maneuvering or deployment it's possible to perform a flank charge on one of his units, or to reinforce your own forces (situational, but possible)

[Gentlemanloser]

Don't forget that the Eversor can assault up to 12" thanks to his combat drugs. First-turn charge with an Eversor is quite possible.

 

No, he can't. Not without Fleet. In LoS you have to infiltrate over 18" away. And if you're out of LoS (for the entire army) for the 12" Infiltrate (somehow, thanks to True LoS...) you're not going to be able to get a first turn charge, due to the cover in the way.

 

Also remember that infiltrators can outflank. Should the enemy player make a mistep in his maneuvering or deployment it's possible to perform a flank charge on one of his units, or to reinforce your own forces (situational, but possible)

 

Well, there is that, but it still can't be a first turn charge. :lol:

[Chengar Qordath]

Don't forget that the Eversor can assault up to 12" thanks to his combat drugs. First-turn charge with an Eversor is quite possible.

 

No, he can't. Not without Fleet. In LoS you have to infiltrate over 18" away. And if you're out of LoS (for the entire army) for the 12" Infiltrate (somehow, thanks to True LoS...) you're not going to be able to get a first turn charge, due to the cover in the way.

Getting into charge range after infiltrating out of LOS depends on how exactly the terrain is set up and/or how any difficult terrain tests go. With 18" of move+charge to work it is indisputably possible to get into close combat with something that is only a little over 12" away.

[Gentlemanloser]

It's out of LoS in 12" for the whole army. If you can find somewhere that's out of LoS for the entirety of your opponents army (edit: within the 18" ofcourse!), and still remain within 12" of some of it, go for it.

 

But then it's most likely impassible terrain you can't move through anyway (Which will increase the distance you have to travel as you have to travel around it), and to be honest I've *never* come across any terrain like that, in any game of 5th I've played.

 

True LoS ftw, eh. :woot:

[ValourousHeart]

@ Gentlemanloser,

 

Does your gaming group count any terrain that blocks LOS as impassable?

Or does most of the terrain you use not block LOS?

 

Just off the top of my head, GW's Sanctum Imperialis, seems like it would grant no LOS to models on the first floor, would not be impassable as there is a door, and if placed centrally on the table could easily put the eversor 12" from the enemy.

Granted this is just one building, and no guarantee that you will be deploying on the proper side, nor is it guaranteed that this building will be in range of a unit that you want to charge.

 

But this building is hardly unique in its ability to hide a model from most of the board... in fact every building that GW produces, just considering the layout presented on the website, provides ample space to hide a single infantry model without any implication that the terrain is impassable.

Unless of course your group has ruled that no LOS means impassable.

 

As has already been said, assaulting into cover is bad for an assassin.

So assuming we know not to do that, even if the assassin starts in cover, the shortest distance he can assault is 13"... which should be more than enough to cover the 12" he has to start away from an enemy unit.

 

Intact buildings (like the Bastion) make this even easier, as you just exit buildings like you would a transport without the need for a difficult terrain roll.

Since the building didn't move (haha), you get your full move plus assault, in addition to being placed upto 2" from the door.

 

*edit* - bastion example

[Gentlemanloser]

Does your gaming group count any terrain that blocks LOS as impassable? Or does most of the terrain you use not block LOS?

 

If you can't be seen by a wall, it blocks LoS, but unless it's impassable, you can move through it. But we do use a lot of Craters, Forests, Ruins, etc. All difficult terrain, and with enough gaps that it's near impossible to block entire LoS to the rest of the opposing army in range.

 

Bastions/Bunkers would block LoS, and be impassible (unless you're inside, which is a different topic all together, and really depends on where the door is facing), but unless you're inside them, standing behind one is again near impossible to block LoS to the entire army. The Squad closest you want to CC, sure. But the squad next to them that's still within 12", a lot more difficult.

 

And people don't usually place Bastions/Bunkers 12" away of thier deployment Zones with Doors facing towards them to allow this sort of access to invulnerable Infiltrators for first turn charges.

 

But if you can get away with it, go for it!