Vanguard vets

[Mezkh]

Probably deserves it's own thread because this crops up all the time

 

Always use a unit of ten Vanguard over two separate units of 5 with the same weapons loadout. The points cost is the same. The benefits gained from using combat squads if you want to achieve the same result are quite tangible.

 

I'm not too sure why but a lot of people seem to think taking separate 5 strong units saves you points somewhere..

 

It's a forced 15 point spend for the Sergeant's power weapon/discounted special weapon when you buy the unit. You don't get a freebie.

[shatter]

The only true advantages that I can see:

-Dedicated transports: 2 x 5 can buy 2 vehicles.

-Glaive encarmines can give a sergeant and therefore the squad the ability to make more complex units when they're heavy in PWs.(/LCs/glaives)

-not having all VVs on the same reserve roll.

-having a mix of infantry(with or without transport) & jump infantry VV.

 

2 x 5 is always a disadvantage with regard to kill points.

[Mezkh]

True, I presumed everyone would have jump packs in the OP. Oops! edited.

 

The Glaive option doesn't help with making a complex unit because a PW Sarge is still different to a PW vet, because of the fact he's a sarge, even if in all other aspects of statline they are the same.

 

-not having all VVs on the same reserve roll is the only real one. By splitting you increase the chance you'll have at least one unit available in the first batch of reserves, but you're also increasing your chance to not have all ten in the first batch. The joys of simple statistics :)

[Ranwulf]

The Sanguinor is the only other reason to play two of those squads.

 

Super Sergeant, ho!

 

Ran

[shatter]

The Glaive option doesn't help with making a complex unit because a PW Sarge is still different to a PW vet, because of the fact he's a sarge, even if in all other aspects of statline they are the same.

 

That one's arguable as being 'identical in gaming terms' (BRB taking saving throws, pg 25) is all that matters. A 'sergeant' is the same as any other fluff label and as such... is just fluff until rule-wise it's different and he's different in no way based on 'gaming terms'. Usually this is not the case as with many other units he is, in fact, an upgraded version with a different statline. In a VV squad, he's not an upgrade at all, he's the same.

 

The group I play with uses this RAW interpretation. I know other groups will exist that do not. So, it obviously depends on the group you're with as to whether this is a significant difference or not. And, of course, it's rarely invoked and barely significant even if so.

 

 

2 VV also means you can deploy at game start as well as place one in reserve and/or reserve via two different methods; table edge and DS. Table edge can be enormously superior to DS.

 

But as the OP stated, if one's going to DS 'em, 10 with or without combat squadding is generally superior.

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

Right, so im sure most of ye have seen my Astro vs Sanguinor thread for my DoA army. While fine tuning my list question arised of what would be better:

 

A 10 man VV w/ 8 Storm Shields, 2 Fists 3 Claws and Jump Packs

 

or 2 x 5 man with 4 Storm Shields, Fist, 2 Claws and 1 with Fist, Claw, 4 Storm Shields.

 

 

what do you guys think is best?

[Erasmus of Baal]

10-man. It allows combat squads to be variable rather than being necessarily fixed beforehand and only uses one force organization chart. I mean, I would say fewer storm shields to begin with, but my vote goes to 10-man.

[shatter]

I'd definitely take the 10 man as it has jump packs. =)

 

I wouldn't have so many stormshields in your shoes, rather spend those points on killiness; more PW/LC/TH.

 

If you're inclined to retain the option to reserve the whole 10 with a priest to join a 5man squad, HI the others, some special pistols aint a bad idea for the priest's 5.

[JamesI]

I've merged two basically identical topics on the question of 2 small vanguard or 1 large one.

 

The large vanguard has the advantage of allowing more attack bikes/land speeders/baal predators.