Sanguinary Priests in DoA/Jump Army

[syypher]

I've been in the process of making a DoA/Jump army recently...wanted some variety since I've only played mech BA armies! I was wondering what do you guys equip your priests with?

 

I was thinking of giving him combi-melta or plasma pistol.

 

Reasoning: I don't think I want to equip him with a PW or PF since I will probably be the one getting charged...and if they target my priest first which more than likely they will he will probably die quite quickly...If I get a ranged weapon like a combi-melta or plasma pistol/infernus pistol I can at least destroy some vehicle or lay some fire down to do something before he hits the dust. From what I've been reading and what I've seen most people make the priest priority target to kill when facing a DoA/Jump list with multiple RaS squads. That'd be nice if he destroyed a land raider or some vehicle on the turn he drops.

 

What are your thoughts on this? What wargear do you choose for your Sanguinary Priest and why?

[Jorre]

A sang priest is a expensive way to get a extra melta or plasma shot. With jump pack your looking at a 90 point single wound model that can be singled out in combat!

 

That said you really need to think about his role. I don't mind giving my priest a powerweapons if he's rolling with a assault squad those 3 extra power weapon attacks are quite usefull. However if he's rolling with sang guard or any other hard hitting elite squad I generally want him barebones as the unit will already hit hard enough and him having extra war gear will just make him a bigger target

[JamesI]

I go with a power weapon. Usually I get the charge and I want those extra power weapon/furious charge attacks.

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

However if he's rolling with sang guard or any other hard hitting elite squad I generally want him barebones as the unit will already hit hard enough and him having extra war gear will just make him a bigger target

 

Funny.. I actually reason the complete other way around..

 

When he is running with your RAS or other troops, you don't want a power weapon in there as what he is there for to boost the RAS itself with FC and FNP. He doesnt need to be there to do the killing for them.

But especially if you have him going with Sang Guard you want to give him a PW. The Sang Guard with Chapter Banner is a win-win addition for both units. The Sang Guard get FNP and FC, and the Sang Priest gets an extra attack from the Banner. I always run that one with a PW as my only PW Priest in my entire army.

 

Though, I am considering throwing in a Bike Squad with Sang Priest on Bike and that one might get a PW too ;-)

[breng77]

First off I would never give him a Plasma Pistol. While the odds of him dying from an overheat are small (2.8%) if it happens it would be a huge waste of points (especially if it was the turn he dropped in) and ruin the entire reason why you took the priest in the first place. In a DOA list I would probably give him nothing unless you had the points lying around after you took everything else, and then give him either a combi-melta or Inferus pistol depending on points.

[syypher]

I have 30 points left over from my lists then >_< Here are my lists @ 1k, 1.5k, 1.75k points...

 

As you can see @ 1,000 points I would be down 10 points if I drop the combi-melta. @1,500 pts I'd be down 20 points and @1,750 I'd be down 20 points as well. Where would you guys allocate those points towards? If you look at my lists I start running out of stuff to really "round out" the armies at 1,500 and 1,750... I end up, for those two point divisions, adding a few odd VV or giving the Sang Priest weapons since I run out of ideas of what to put in and fill up the points.

 

What would you guys suggest to do to fill up those points?

 

 

-------------------------------1000

Librarian 1

Jump Pack

 

Sanguinary Priest 1

Jump Pack

Combi-Melta x 1

 

Assault Squad 10

Meltagun x 2

Sgt: Power Fist

 

Assault Squad 10

Meltagun x 2

Sgt: Power Fist

 

Veteran Vanguard 7

Jump Packs x 7

Storm Shields x 4

Power Weapons x 3

Sgt: Power Fist

------------------------------- 1500

Librarian 1

Jump Pack

 

Sanguinary Priest 2

Jump Pack

Combi-Melta x 2

 

Honour Guard 5

Meltagun x 4

Jump Packs

 

Assault Squad 10

Meltagun x 2

Sgt: Power Fist

 

Assault Squad 10

Meltagun x 2

Sgt: Power Fist

 

Assault Squad 10

Meltagun x 2

Sgt: Power Fist

 

Veteran Vanguard 6

Jump Packs x 6

Storm Shields x 4

Power Weapons x 2

Sgt: Power Fist

-------------------------------1750

Librarian 1

Jump Pack

Infernus Pistol

 

Sanguinary Priest 2

Jump Pack

Combi-Melta x 2

 

Honour Guard 5

Meltagun x 4

Jump Packs

 

Assault Squad 10

Meltagun x 2

Sgt: Power Fist

 

Assault Squad 10

Meltagun x 2

Sgt: Power Fist

 

Assault Squad 10

Meltagun x 2

Sgt: Power Fist

 

Veteran Vanguard 10

Jump Packs x 10

Storm Shields x 6

Power Weapons x 4

Power Fist

Sgt: Power Fist

-------------------------------

[shatter]

All my priests have PWs. But that's the only weapon possible for TDA priests. >.<

 

I'm in the PW/LC crowd for them in general though. I think the cost of the model is too high to give them limited CC damage output.

[breng77]

My problem with giving them a CCW is that I don't want them to fight in CC as it opens up the possibility that they will get killed. When Considering their damage out put I consider that the whole squad has a better damage output. (Look at it this way would you pay 7.5 points per model for a 10 man squad to get FNP and FC?, now extend that to other units within 6") AS soon as you put him into BTB in combat he can die to one poor turn or rolling, or 1 PW.

[Rybnick]

What I've found with my DoA army and priests is that they are infinitely better with a PW/LC. Granted you put them in danger by charging them into CC, but from what I've found if they are with an assault squad it's pretty hard to keep them out of CC anyway you may as well give them something killy to make use of their WS/S/I5 on the charge. They have better odds of surviving if you kill more models at I5, in my personal experience the priest outlives a lot of the squads he attaches too.

 

I generally run with 2 priests in my DoA army each identical, so 180 points for 2 JP/PW priests one generally in a ASM squad and 1 with my SG.

[shatter]

I certainly appreciate that point of view but I feel that in a DoA situation, one has fewer turns to actually kill stuff in. One cannot increase a unit's killiness after a point, short of adding more units. So, it kinda comes down to maximising killiness per reserve roll. To give up a special weapon (CC) slot on (CC) troops (with a priest) especially, as they're limited in this regard (sans DC), can be counter-productive.

...

BUT... should one only have one priest with the intention to bubble a lot of units, I'd want him without a PW and (ultimately) attached to a support unit like tactical termies (that have the large footprint advantage) or sternguard. BTW, sternguard in a 2nd pod is awesome for DoA style armies. ie. they arrive turn 2(+). Sticking corbs in with them makes them almost DoA.

 

This 'killiness per reserve roll' I think forces a certain load-out aggression.

 

the possibility that they will get killed.

 

Eggs and omelets. =p

[syypher]

BTW, sternguard in a 2nd pod is awesome for DoA style armies. ie. they arrive turn 2(+). Sticking corbs in with them makes them almost DoA.

 

This 'killiness per reserve roll' I think forces a certain load-out aggression.

 

the possibility that they will get killed.[/b]

 

Eggs and omelets. =p

 

I was thinking of this idea but what would you have in the first pod? Most everything else already has DoA and will be arriving in that way. Plus my first Pod would come down by itself since I can do the reserve rolls for DoA on my first turn. Whatever is in that Pod is going to be alone and shot to death by everything. I can understand if my list was maybe half mech half DoA but it's all DoA. I would love to field that in a 2nd Pod for the turn my DoA/Jump guys come in. How would you do that?

[shatter]

3 man DC? =) And their pod can have a homer.

 

It's quite easy if you're using SRs. The DC go in here, but they can still buy that empty pod to jam up the opponent's flank or fire arcs.

[syypher]

Hmm..I don't know about that.. Too expensive for a suicide unit.. it has to be as cheap as possible since its going to be thrown away.. maybe a drop pod by itself empty? Whatever goes down t1 by itself + the drop pod is probably going to die. I mean the enemies entire force is going to be shooting at it....

 

OR

 

I can take the JP's off the HG with 4 meltas and put them in the Drop Pod. Their main purpose is to pop stuff anyways...but that takes away from the target saturation of multiple DS units coming in on my turn 2...It would make target prioritizing much easier for the opponent. T1 kill HG, T2 kill w/e comes in...

 

Like the idea but I don't think it can work really well with a DS idea. Probably best in a Drop Pod type army...

[Redfinger]

The preist can only be targeted in cc if he is in base to base w/ the attacking sqaud, I usually leave my preists naked, or give them a LC, the extra power wound on the charge is nice, so what you do is this...

 

if your attacking a unit w/ no power weapons, then get the preist into base to base w/ the squad and let him smash things, you need to move him in such a way that he is in bases to base w/ as few models as possible, this will minimize the attacks that can go against him.

 

If you are attacking a hard hitting unit then keep the priest at the back out of cc and base to base, he will still provide the fnp, but will not be able to be targeted that round, according to the new faq, the next round models will need to be moved for him to make b2b, so that round you may loose him.

 

The other thing you cann do, is move him prior to the assault such that he has "left" the unit he is with and join him to another near by unit that is close enough to still grant the fnp bubble...just some thoughts.

 

Ashton

[shatter]

Hmm..I don't know about that.. Too expensive for a suicide unit.. it has to be as cheap as possible since its going to be thrown away.. maybe a drop pod by itself empty? Whatever goes down t1 by itself + the drop pod is probably going to die. I mean the enemies entire force is going to be shooting at it....

 

OR

 

I can take the JP's off the HG with 4 meltas and put them in the Drop Pod. Their main purpose is to pop stuff anyways...but that takes away from the target saturation of multiple DS units coming in on my turn 2...It would make target prioritizing much easier for the opponent. T1 kill HG, T2 kill w/e comes in...

 

Like the idea but I don't think it can work really well with a DS idea. Probably best in a Drop Pod type army...

 

 

The 3DC, or 5 infantry RAS cost much the same (95/100) with a pod. Just because you send down a pod doesn't mean they need to be inside it. They can be on table edge reserve or, deployed on the table as per mission (helping the rest of your DoAs stay in reserve). I'd prefer 3 bolter DC as they're slightly more resilient to medium range saturation type weapons by not needing a priest and will be useful sooner because of relentless and, well... boltguns. Empty pods, with or without cargo, weapons or beacons are very very handy. Closing a path between terrain pieces is sometimes priceless. It's also handy to 'gather' enemy CC rage type models into a mass that can be multi-charged later... by HIV if you're lucky. errr...

 

I'm not in any way suggesting DoA armies should have this to the exclusion of all other things. It's just an idea that has multiple uses.

 

 

If no one's familiar with some priest and IC rule trickery in the OR; check it out.

[SamaNagol]

If they have a Jump Pack ALWAYS WITHOUT FAIL GIVE THEM A POWER WEAPON OF SOME TYPE.

 

You want their kill zone cleared asap.

[breng77]

If they have a Jump Pack ALWAYS WITHOUT FAIL GIVE THEM A POWER WEAPON OF SOME TYPE.

 

You want their kill zone cleared asap.

 

Do you mean you want to squad wipe your opponent, otherwise I am not sure how giving them a PW helps them.

[SamaNagol]

On the charge they strike at a higher than normal I value compared to MEQs and are ICs. If everything in B2B with them is dead, they are safe from any returning strikes. It is pretty easy to position your charge so that your Priest is only making contact with 2 models. And on average you won't wipe out a 10 man marine squad on the charge with 10 Assault Marines with a fist and a Priest with a PW anyway, so you will still be clearing them up in the opposition assault phase.

[breng77]

True, but you cannot guarantee that he won't be in BTB unless you kill all of the opposition as your opponent picks which models take wounds, on top of which he will need to be in BTB in the second round of combat.

[Bradley Powers]

I've actually had good luck with my Priest chillin' in close combat, assuming you're careful about where you pick. I had a 5 man assault squad that the priest was originally attached to get killed by a nasty round of shooting, so he charged the remnants of a fire warrior squad and hung out for two turns waiting for my VV to DoA and save the day! Again, careful with this strategy, chillin' in close combat works less when you're chillin' with, saaay, a Hive Tyrant :(

[SamaNagol]

True, but you cannot guarantee that he won't be in BTB unless you kill all of the opposition as your opponent picks which models take wounds, on top of which he will need to be in BTB in the second round of combat.

 

He will need to be in b2b regardless in the opponents' assault phase, because ICs pile in first.

[breng77]

Yes, but he does not have to be in your assault phase, in which case his chance of dying is 0. So Unless the attacks from the priest are making a huge difference (it seems to me like you would kill about one additional marine on average.) I would rather keep him out of BTB for a turn.

[shatter]

Which means he will be in B2B contact with essentially a stronger unit and doing so without I advantage (vs MEQ). You're exchanging low chance to die your phase for higher chance to die (and/or lose combat entirely!) his phase. Sometimes this can be nice, most times not. Regardless, keeping an IC out of B2B doesn't depend on the weapon he's carrying so your method of 'protection' can be used for either.

 

Personally, I'd rather have the increased chances to win combats and be able to move PWs around the army during the game in addition to the bubbles. Priests are pretty good veterans.

[TheHarrower]

He will need to be in b2b regardless in the opponents' assault phase, because ICs pile in first.

 

Thank you. Give the Priest a PW and let his WS5 and 2A bring righteous fury to all foes of the Emperor!

[breng77]

Which means he will be in B2B contact with essentially a stronger unit and doing so without I advantage (vs MEQ). You're exchanging low chance to die your phase for higher chance to die (and/or lose combat entirely!) his phase. Sometimes this can be nice, most times not. Regardless, keeping an IC out of B2B doesn't depend on the weapon he's carrying so your method of 'protection' can be used for either.

 

Personally, I'd rather have the increased chances to win combats and be able to move PWs around the army during the game in addition to the bubbles. Priests are pretty good veterans.

 

This depends on the placement of your opponents fist(if one exists) If the fist is somewhere where you can make it into BTB with it with the squad you are right. If your opponent gets to move his fist then, the chance of dying is actually higher. I also don't think that the chance of him dying in round to is statistically higher as unless you squad wipe your opponent he is going to get to hit you 2 times instead of just one. The priest simply does not have the power to kill enough models for me to think that the difference is significant enough.

 

On the charge an assault squad deals about 8 wounds, and the priest about 2PW wounds at I5, with the sarge dealing another 2 PW wounds (either with a fist or PW, the fist is better in this case, so we will go with that). After saves You end up with about 4-5 dead marines before they charge (About 3 without the priest) . So say 5. 4 Marines strike back, and likely cause no wounds. Both sargents strike with fists BA kill 2 Marines kill 1. They lose by 6 and need to make LD on a 3. Likely Fail and run. Assuming you catch them they need to take 6 more saves killing 2 marines. (or they run and either get walked off the board or regroup). The key here is that if you are unlucky the priest may have died (about a 17% chance from a regular wound.) He has to take this risk again next turn bringing the odds of him dying up to 34%. If he was not involved, you still in combat. The marines are still unlikely to cause more than 1 wound, an lose comabt by 4. Meaning they are still likely to run, and then take 4 more saves losing one marine. So now your priest is taking on the same number of marines he did in the first combat, but he only has to take hits one time, likely from one standard marine. You are also much more likely to remain locked in combat, and not get shot by your opponent.