thade Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Hey guys, I don't have my codex or my rulebook with me, so here I am. =) Khan on Moondrakken (his bike) gains Fleet and the ability to Run; does he confer these powers on whatever squad he joins? Why or why not? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216605-khan-on-a-bike-fleet-for-all/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 it only says he gains the abilties, and they are listed as not being passed onto a squad he joins in the BRB IIRC.. seems like one of those pointless rules Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216605-khan-on-a-bike-fleet-for-all/#findComment-2583179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 I'm pretty sure Fleet is one of those asterisked rules in the USR section of the BRB, which an IC loses if he joins a squad without it, yes? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216605-khan-on-a-bike-fleet-for-all/#findComment-2583184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
muadib02 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 The way its written it states that Khan gains the ability to run. So I would say that only he gets to run and be fleet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216605-khan-on-a-bike-fleet-for-all/#findComment-2583191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 GC08 (et al); I do recall the * as well now. That makes it clear for Fleet...but what about his "Ability to Run"? He doesn't confer that on the squad of course, but does he lose the ability when he joins a squad? My hunch is that he does; doesn't make much sense for him to Run, and have the rest of the unit - which can't run - effectively Run 0" and count as having Run (i.e. they can't shoot or assault that turn). So strange. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216605-khan-on-a-bike-fleet-for-all/#findComment-2583226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan VK Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 If riding Moondrakkan, Kor'sarro Khan has the ability to run in the Shooting phase and has the fleet special rule (see the rulebook for details). Codex: Space Marines page 94 Bikes cannot run in the Shooting phase. BRB page 53 Also, Fleet does indeed have an asterisk before it in the UNIVERSAL SPECIAL RULES section of the BRB. It is clear that Kor'sarro Khan gains the ability to run in the Shooting phase and the Fleet USR. No other models with the unit type Bike gain the ability to run in the Shooting phase, as that is not stated in Kor'sarro Khan's entry and the BRB explicitly forbids it. If Kor'sarro Khan joins a unit without the Fleet USR, regardless of unit type, he loses the Fleet USR and does not grant it to the unit he joins. [EDIT: Argh, a minute too late! Curse you, Thade! :)] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216605-khan-on-a-bike-fleet-for-all/#findComment-2583228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 im pretty sure the addition of running is just in place to allow him to fleet, something which bikes cant do.. if he had fleet but wasnt able to run we would have another large discussion topic on it.. shows GW does think about some its its rules mechanics. as for granting it to the unit i doubt it, BUT something which gets me thinking.. as its a run move and therefore not technically 'movement' (as in the phase) would he be able to run even when atatched to others who cant.. he doesnt need to stay within 2" becuase the checks for that are made at the end of every movement phase. a big part of me says this is stupid, but id like to see what RAW says on the matter edit: the rule doesnt say he grants run to the unit, but its not listed as a rule lost by the IC when he joins a unit.. therefore Khan should still have it.. not sure if he grants it to the unit yet though Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216605-khan-on-a-bike-fleet-for-all/#findComment-2583239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan VK Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 GC08 (et al); I do recall the * as well now. That makes it clear for Fleet...but what about his "Ability to Run"? He doesn't confer that on the squad of course, but does he lose the ability when he joins a squad? My hunch is that he does; doesn't make much sense for him to Run, and have the rest of the unit - which can't run - effectively Run 0" and count as having Run (i.e. they can't shoot or assault that turn). So strange. I just read all of the IC and Movement rules I could find, and I do not see a definitive answer. The interpretation I will be using in my basement is if the IC is part of the Unit then the IC must obey all restrictions on that Unit while he remains with that Unit, whether it is obeying the Slow and Purposeful USR or being unable to Run in the Shooting phase. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216605-khan-on-a-bike-fleet-for-all/#findComment-2583243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatman Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 I assume that even if he runs he has to stay in coherency though, GC08. Normal units have to keep coherency while running. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216605-khan-on-a-bike-fleet-for-all/#findComment-2583253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Yeah the only cool use for this would be if you took him in an army with Shrike, and Attatched Him and Shrike to a squad of Assault marines or JP Vanguard Vets. Infiltrated them for a Turn 1 Furious Charge. It would be cool, expensive, but cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216605-khan-on-a-bike-fleet-for-all/#findComment-2583259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Yeah the only cool use for this would be if you took him in an army with Shrike, and Attatched Him and Shrike to a squad of Assault marines or JP Vanguard Vets. Infiltrated them for a Turn 1 Furious Charge. It would be cool, expensive, but cool. yeah i think i covered that in my scout HQ article.. @meatman, didnt realise that... but does that mean he can still run? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216605-khan-on-a-bike-fleet-for-all/#findComment-2583262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan VK Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 I assume that even if he runs he has to stay in coherency though, GC08. Normal units have to keep coherency while running. Even though I think it is rules-lawyering shenanigans that would offend me during a friendly game, it has been argued that by the RAW units are not forced to maintain coherency outside of the Movement phase unless otherwise specified. Models must maintain coherency while assaulting, falling back, disembarking, and avoiding Tank Shock!, but running in the Shooting phase makes no mention of coherency. [EDIT: This assumes you accept the 'movement' is not 'Movement' argument, which I do not.] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216605-khan-on-a-bike-fleet-for-all/#findComment-2583274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatman Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Yeah the only cool use for this would be if you took him in an army with Shrike, and Attatched Him and Shrike to a squad of Assault marines or JP Vanguard Vets. Infiltrated them for a Turn 1 Furious Charge. It would be cool, expensive, but cool. yeah i think i covered that in my scout HQ article.. @meatman, didnt realise that... but does that mean he can still run? Well, the rules say bikes can't run, so presumably he can run, but I guess this would stop the rest of the squad shooting? The only time I can see him running in a squad would be to get at the front of the group, or with jump pack infantry. Dan VK, even if you could run out of coherency, you have to move back into it as soon as you are able, so that offers no benefit at all for your running. Except maybe to spread out further for templates. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216605-khan-on-a-bike-fleet-for-all/#findComment-2583347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Dan VK, even if you could run out of coherency, you have to move back into it as soon as you are able, so that offers no benefit at all for your running. Except maybe to spread out further for templates. it would be silly things like gaining that extra few inches to prevent a marine unit from regrouping.. OR he could split from the unit in the next turn meaning they wouldnt have to reform Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216605-khan-on-a-bike-fleet-for-all/#findComment-2583353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 What he wouldnt be able to do is run in a unit of bikes- because you move at the speed of the slowest model in the unit, wich would be 0. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216605-khan-on-a-bike-fleet-for-all/#findComment-2583444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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