Blood Dragons of Khorne

[BERZERKER!]

Hi all,

 

After much lost sleep and deep thought about what direction i want to take, and after hours spent deciding which models i would like to build, i came to the conclusion that i would like to do a Khorne warband.

 

I recently finished DoW2, and this gave me an interesting idea. I know that a daemon can be 'bound' into a place. So, say my chapter were trapped in a space hulk (DoW2 Spoiler!

as with brother Kyras and apothecary Galan, where they were perverted by the great unclean one Ulkair

) and that the bound Daemon was able to 'whisper' to them, this could lead to a fall to Chaos. They could be trapped by a warp storm, or via the Space Hulk slipping back into warp space.

 

I wanted to make this idea a little more feasible by founding the Blood Dragons (hope i haven't stolen anyone's chapter name) as a Blood Angels Successor (ie the red thirst makes it just a little bit easier for the Daemon to turn the marines into Khorne Bezerkers). I haven't decided whether to base the structure and spirit of the chapter on the Samurai culture of feudal Japan, although i wont take this theme quite as far as visually apparent if i do.

 

So, to begin, i have a few questions for you all;

 

1. I dont really want the chapter to be associated with the 'Horus Heresy' traitor legions.. Is it possible for the fallen chapter to serve a god of Chaos without being attached to the Chaos Space Marines as a whole?

 

2. My aforementioned space hulk idea.. silly, or fesible? I might not neccessarily use a space hulk, it just seemed to fit the kind of atmosphere that might pervert my chapter. I know that the chapter creation guide says not to have chapters disappearing into the warp (as an excuse to miss a pile of history), but if there is an explanation for what is happening to them during this time is it ok?

 

3. How might a greater Daemon of Khorne come to be bound into a space hulk?

 

4. Would a chapter be able to survive on a Space Hulk? Maybe they are able to set up a small scale forge onboad? maybe part of the hulk is a derelict battle barge, with plentiful stores? Maybe they simply resort to raiding for their supplies, and salvage what equipment they can in the aftermath of battle?

 

Obviously it isn't the whole chapter trapped on the hulk. I was thinking maybe just the Blood Guard (the chapters version of the Sanguinary Guard and personal retinue of the chapter master), so a relatively small number of marines.. maybe 100. This leaves me with two problems;

 

1. Where do the Khornate's find their recruits? what stops the band dying out immediately? Their ranks will be supported by Daemons, and machines of war, but not even Space marines are invincible. I can't decide whether the feudal societies of their original homeworld would care, or even understand, that their new masters were in league with the Ruinous Powers.

 

2. What happened to the rest of the chapter? The way i see it, they are either still hanging around somewhere (kills the homeworld idea), or i need to think of a reason for them to have all been destroyed.. Warp energies could have destroyed the fleet at the hulk, but the rest of the chapter?

 

I hope everyone can see where i'm coming from!

 

As always, hit me with the C&C please.

 

 

UPDATE

 

Hi again,

 

I've been discussing my ideas so far with my brother, and got together some more inspiration. But, with inspiration comes indecision.

 

I have two ideas about the initial loss of the chapter to chaos, and can't seem to pick one:

 

1) The ship is a Space Hulk that the chapter honour guard is sent to investigate, and bound inside is a Daemon prince of Khorne. He has been bound for thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of years. Why he is bound is a mystery, but he seeks to escape the confines of the Space Hulk and lavish in the glory of war once again. The honour guard board the Hulk, and it slips back into the warp, leaving them trapped.

 

+ The space hulk is an amalgam of other ships. this could include forge ships, etc, and provides a viable base of operations for the warband.

+ Explains why a Daemon Prince of khorne might result to manipulation.

- This leaves a large portion of the chapter still loyal, with no good explanation of what happens to them or why they might dissappear.

- Unoriginal idea?

 

2) The ship is a Daemonic vessel, commanded by a powerful and ancient servant of Khorne. The chapter's homeworld comes under Daemonic assault, and the space marines are taken unaware. Warpfire sears the planet surface, and Daemons slaughter the populace. In a final attempt to save the chapter, the honour guard board the vessel and seek out the Daemon Prince. Fighting a losing battle, the chief librarian sacrifices himself and binds the Daemon into an artifact/the ship/his armour, causing the ship to return to the warp and trapping the honour guard.

 

+ Explains the dissappearance of the chapter. Only a seared, barren planet is left behind.

+ A more original idea than the space hulk. Also better explains better how the ship might corrupt the space marines.

- After this, the Daemon might just want to destroy the marines. However, if they can help him claim skulls for the throne, i can work around this.

- Might not be a viable base of operations.

 

I don't have a clear explanation of the nature of the Daemon ship.. I'm not sure this idea works. I can't think of a reason why Daemons would require a ship. I imagine it as more of a terror weapon, a material focus of warp energy. It has a warp storm aura, and casts gouts of warpfire onto the planet it assaults.. a sort of planet killer idea. This idea is sort of in the vain of the Reapers, from the Mass Effect series, if anyone has played it. Maybe the ship is a Daemon itself, but this removes the need of the Daemon Prince.

 

The more depth i write into it, the more i like the Daemon ship idea.. but does it make sense

 

So, which idea do people like best?

 

Thanks All

 

 

UPDATE

 

After a look over Battlefleet Gothic, I've seen two things that spurred the idea on. I've seen that Chaos Daemon ships do exist. Second, I've chosen an appropriate ship.

 

I want to use the something akin to Desolator battleship, as described by the GW website;

 

"Dating back to the very founding of the Imperium and utilising technology long since lost to the Adeptus Mechanicus, the Desolator is a potent behemoth of the stars, able to use its long range gun decks and powerful lances to decimate any fleet."

 

This fits the idea perfectly. The daemon is an ancient and powerful battleship, known as Soulrend. Its more than capable of protecting itself, and is able to bombard planets with warpfire (and this is how the chapter's homeworld is lost). However, the Daemon requires a crew and army to claim skulls for Knorne.

 

So, here is the new idea;

 

In an attempt to repel the daemonic assault on their homeworld, the chapter master, his honour guard, the chapters chief librarian and a cohort of the chapter's veterans board the daemon ship. After fighting their way to the heart of the ship, the chief librarian attempts to destroy the Daemon, throwing the ship, himself and his brothers into the warp. By some evil working of Khorne, the librarian instead binds his soul to the ship, and the Daemon to his body. In this way, the Daemon is able to manifest itself on the battlefield, and through the body of the librarian and the effect of the ship, can pervert the space marines who are now trapped within its unholy hull.

 

What are people's thoughts on this development?

 

Cheers!

 

 

UPDATE

 

Hi again everybody. Hope this doesn't count as threadomancy, i thought it might be a little silly to start a new thread.

 

Again, i've had a change of heart. I was looking over what i have so far, and my previous incarnations of an Iron Hands type successor, and decided that i've come too far from where i wanted to be. So, after much deliberation, i've come to the conclusion that i'd like to do a Dark Mechanicus army.

 

However, i want to keep the ideas that have developed over the course of this thread. So, the destruction of the chapter's homeworld and the chapters 1st company being trapped on the ship are staying. The Daemon, bound to the ship by the dark mechanicus (to keep open a warp rift that powers the ship's superweapons) can now manifest itself through the Librarian.

 

The ship is crewed by an Adept of the dark mechanicus, and his army of corrupted servitors and automatons. The marines are twisted to chaos and become the adept's grim servants implanted with experimental bionics and fueled by the souls of their victims (as is the ship). An obliterator cult enters the equation somewhere, i haven't figured this yet.

 

As always, with new ideas come new questions.

 

1) when the Daemon gains the ability to manifest, what stops it simply slaughtering the mechanicus adept for trapping it?

 

2) what stops the trapped marines killing the crew?

 

Cheers

[fivepointedstar]

stole mine.. but its ok my army is loyal. And is a BA Flesh Tearers Successor

 

Here's my link to my army set up, and color sheme.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=213743

[BERZERKER!]

Ahh, crap. :P

 

Sorry about that. I can change the name..

 

OR

 

Any chance you sent a task force to investigate a Space Hulk?

[fivepointedstar]

How about you and I go with a loyalist BD, and you do a Chaos Blood Dragons army that would be a far compermise.

 

My idea for my loyalists are there from a jurassic death world kinda like where the fleash tearers are from. my mounts are cold one's count as SM bikes. The dreadnoughts are carnosuars, and the jp'ers will have dragon wings.

 

the space hulk idea would work.

[elohimalpha]

Heyhey, looking pretty interesting so far!

 

1. I dont really want the chapter to be associated with the 'Horus Heresy' traitor legions.. Is it possible for the fallen chapter to serve a god of Chaos without being attached to the Chaos Space Marines as a whole?

Sure - something like 30 Chapters have converted to Chaos since the Second Founding (i'm sure someone more up on the fluff can give you a more accurate number). That being said, big Chaos warbands tend to absorb smaller ones if they can - not a problem for you if your guys are tough enough (could make for an interesting story how they fight to keep themselves "pure") or if they just popped out of the Warp.

 

2. My aforementioned space hulk idea.. silly, or fesible? I might not neccessarily use a space hulk, it just seemed to fit the kind of atmosphere that might pervert my chapter. I know that the chapter creation guide says not to have chapters disappearing into the warp (as an excuse to miss a pile of history), but if there is an explanation for what is happening to them during this time is it ok?

Feasible. I don't know how often this gets used, but I like it, and it for sure fits with what you have. I'm not sure how else you could have them isolated for a long enough period of time that some Inquisitor/other Chapter wouldn't catch wind of them. If there's an explanation for it and it's well writen - go for it. That guide's great, and I'm glad you read it (some could follow your example) but you can bend/break some guidelines when necessary.

 

3. How might a greater Daemon of Khorne come to be bound into a space hulk?

Hmm, not too sure about this one. My best guess would be some Chaos Sorcerer tried to summon one long ago (er, don't know if summoning would work for Khorne - no magic . . . hmm) and the demon of course killed him before whatever he wanted done was finished. Now he has to follow whoever has the sorcerer's skull (or whatever), but he's always scheming of how to get free.

 

One thing about Khorne, though - how likely would he be to twist/convert/otherwise manipulate? I can only see him doing it (if he even can) if it'll yield more Skulls for the Skull Throne!

 

4. Would a chapter be able to survive on a Space Hulk? Maybe they are able to set up a small scale forge onboad? maybe part of the hulk is a derelict battle barge, with plentiful stores? Maybe they simply resort to raiding for their supplies, and salvage what equipment they can in the aftermath of battle?

A Space Hulk can be as big as you want it to be - I'm sure some sort of forgeship/supplies could be found in there. If you're looking to have a "normal" sized force (again, Chaos can get away with anything here) then any of the options sound pretty good. Maybe they've got the ability to make armor and bolters, but they raid Astartes/Forge worlds for vehicles etc.

 

1. Where do the Khornate's find their recruits? what stops the band dying out immediately? Their ranks will be supported by Daemons, and machines of war, but not even Space marines are invincible. I can't decide whether the feudal societies of their original homeworld would care, or even understand, that their new masters were in league with the Ruinous Powers.

Not sure myself, but I can think of a few likely scenarios: 1) Khorne's so pleased with his new toys that he directs other "likeminded individuals" to join the ranks of the Blood Dragons. I'll bet Khorne isn't super-happy with the Chaos Undivided folks, so having him send over some of his bloodthirsty followers makes sense. 2) Slaves/prisoners - I know Khorne's all about the skulls, but he can't be too mindless about it or, as you say, he'd be without followers. I think capturing huge chunks of a world's population and making them fight to the death would be a pretty good way to not only get new recruits, but also a fresh pile of skulls with a side of blood. You could even extend this to capturing Loyalist Marines and twisting them to do Khorne's bloody work. Ah, scenario: you've got one captured Space Marine that can't be broken by "normal" methods, so the Blood Dragons throw a few hundred civilians at him - men, women, children, puppies, etc. If the Space Marine refuses to fight, he's going to die a long painful death at the hands of those he's supposed to protect. If he kills them, now he's tainted, and it's only a matter of time (maybe years or even decades!) til he makes the switch.

 

2. What happened to the rest of the chapter? The way i see it, they are either still hanging around somewhere (kills the homeworld idea), or i need to think of a reason for them to have all been destroyed.. Warp energies could have destroyed the fleet at the hulk, but the rest of the chapter?

Well, it depends on how long ago they disappeared - if it was 8000 years ago, there's probably not too many people wondering what happened to a relative handful of marines. If the Chapter the Blood Dragons are decended from still exists, their records might not. Even if their records do exist, there's no reason that anyone would/should know that the Blood Dragons are that lost company - maybe the Blood Dragons themselves don't know. Time's messed up in the Warp, so you could easily have them think only a little time has passed when in reality millenia have gone by. Plus, having them disappear a long time ago makes it more feasible to be descended from the Blood Angels - their gene-seed isn't in high use from what I've read.

 

If they disappeared more recently... hm, not sure. Maybe the rest of the Chapter is still on the lookout for these guys, or maybe the Blood Dragons are commited to killing them first as a demonstration of strength - there's some options here too.

 

I say keep em on the space hulk if they've figured out how to control it. If not, then fleet-based raiders for sure. I can't see them leaving the populace of their homeworld alive long enough to puzzle out their Masters' new attitude change, but I guess as long as the society revoloved around martial prowess and maximal killing, it could work. I like the idea of a feudal Samurai-flavored background, especially with some Chaos twists - Asian-culture-inspired Chapters are always refreshing to see (when done well - no pressure!).

 

Looks like you've got some really solid starting points here - looking forward to seeing where this goes!

[BERZERKER!]

One thing about Khorne, though - how likely would he be to twist/convert/otherwise manipulate? I can only see him doing it (if he even can) if it'll yield more Skulls for the Skull Throne!

 

I'm thinking that a daemon, of any of the gods, would use any methods available if it was somehow bound. He could have been trapped in some artifact for thousands of years... he needs to break free, and he needs these space marines to break him free. So he appeals to their bloodlust. He twists their minds to his cause.

 

I want to write him in so i can use him in games, but in a way that he isn't completely free.. he can manifest himself physically (maybe through a fallen librarian character?) but he is still tied to the space hulk, so he cannot leave completely. In fact, through the help of said librarian and warband, he can claim skulls for the skull throne! Maybe he is bound there by Khorne himself?

 

A Space Hulk can be as big as you want it to be - I'm sure some sort of forgeship/supplies could be found in there. If you're looking to have a "normal" sized force (again, Chaos can get away with anything here) then any of the options sound pretty good. Maybe they've got the ability to make armor and bolters, but they raid Astartes/Forge worlds for vehicles etc.

 

I'm not really all that interested in vehicles. I like walkers (insane dreads! woop!) but dont really care for tanks. So thats not really a problem, but a good way to explain why i have no tanks :lol:

 

Cheers!

[elohimalpha]

I'm thinking that a daemon, of any of the gods, would use any methods available if it was somehow bound. He could have been trapped in some artifact for thousands of years... he needs to break free, and he needs these space marines to break him free. So he appeals to their bloodlust. He twists their minds to his cause.

 

I want to write him in so i can use him in games, but in a way that he isn't completely free.. he can manifest himself physically (maybe through a fallen librarian character?) but he is still tied to the space hulk, so he cannot leave completely. In fact, through the help of said librarian and warband, he can claim skulls for the skull throne! Maybe he is bound there by Khorne himself?

Good call - I need to remember that demons don't necessarily need to use magic to work their schemes. I like the idea of him being bound to the hulk - it'd give the Blood Dragons (of Khorne!) an added reason to make the space hulk work for them. In that case - are they fully in control of the ship? I can see a raiding party being worried that the ship may not be there (or even exist!) when they get back - all the more reason to hurry! Are they looking for ways to get the bound demon off the ship permanently while still keeping him bound?

 

Khorne binding his own demon to a ship - that's interesting. It could easily be for punishment - now if the demon can get the Blood Dragons to shed enough blood for Korne, he'll someday win his freedom.

 

Using a fallen Librarian sounds like a win! How far away from the ship can the demon manifest itself? I have this vision of a massive ship appearing in high-orbit just before a massive red thing appears out of nowhere and some heads go "missing".

 

Just a word of caution - it's great that you've found some inspiration in the models themselves - just be careful not to let the models dictate the article (just so I'm perfectly clear, you haven't done this)

[Heru]

Ahh, crap. :lol:

 

Sorry about that. I can change the name..

 

OR

 

Any chance you sent a task force to investigate a Space Hulk?

In regards to two DIY Chapters having the same name / colourscheme / whatever:

Addendum: There is some evidence to suggest that the Fire Angels as a Chapter may not be the first to hold their name and livery, either in whole or in part; a circumstance which while unusual is not without precedent in the history of the Adeptus Astartes. This problem leads to some confusion as to the provenance of battle honours, and mention of Space Marine units bearing similar titles or derivations of name (rendered both in High and Low Gothic as well as various Administratum vox-compt scripts) that exist in numerous records contradicting the information presented here. This is a problem to which almost no Chapter's record is immune. Such data 'ghosts' are a constant source of difficulty in an Imperium whose incalculable and cyclopean breadth and depth seems only exceeded by the quill-strokes needed to record it by countless hands.

[BERZERKER!]

Just a word of caution - it's great that you've found some inspiration in the models themselves - just be careful not to let the models dictate the article (just so I'm perfectly clear, you haven't done this)

 

Thanks for the warning. I know too well what happens down that road. I tried to design my last chapter around my army list.. didn't go well, to say the least.

 

However, i'm more inspired by the idea of the character. My army will be led by a Daemon of Khorne. He seeks 'redemption' (i :lol: at the irony) for some misdeed, bound into a cold, lifeless space hulk where he can taste no blood and cannot feel the joy of slaughter. What deed? Only he and Khorne himself know. It is ten thousand years past! I feel this adds to the charm of the warband.

 

Thanks :lol:

[hummus]

There are also 2 gw knights of blood armies

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Knights_of_Blood

[BERZERKER!]

edit: update moved to first post

[elohimalpha]

In regards to your update - the first idea is pretty good, but not exactly groundbreaking - totally fine for an origin by the way. Your second idea is my favorite; not just a demon-in-a-ship - the demon is the ship (if you need inspiration, watch Event Horizon - yikes). Even though it's a bigtime planet-killer, it'll still need troops to do the work of the Skull Throne. Can't see why it wouldn't make a viable base of operations - if you don't want some internal forge, you can always steal a forge ship from some poor fleet.

 

Liking this even more - keep it up!

[BERZERKER!]

Yeah, I'm really getting into the second idea too.

 

I've updated the first post with my progress :P

[elohimalpha]

This newest update oozes cool. One thing to consider is with all this firepower, you'll need a good reason to only use it in the most extreme circumstances - just like the Inquisition doesn't resort to exterminatus as its first option. The need for recruits could be one reason, but what about something even more sinister - maybe the daemon needs to feed on souls to function properly, providing all the more reason for the Dragons to raid worlds: they don't want to be next on the menu!

 

I like the interplay between the librarian, daemon and ship. They're all pretty much the same thing now, right? Let's see if I got this right: the librarian binds the daemon to the ship, and the daemon manifests itself through the librarian? Cruel irony! So, anyone fighting these guys would really have to take out all three elements to make sure they've got it all - the Grey Knights have their work cut out for them!

[BERZERKER!]

Hi

 

I had thought about that.. the name, 'soul reaver', fits with this. The Daemon feeds on souls.

 

The librarian hasn't bound the Daemon to the ship, though.. the Daemon is the ship. He has bound it to himself, in an effort to destroy it.. he himself becomes a Daemon Prince, but he and the ship are one. Both must be destroyed, or neither can be.

 

In terms of its weaponry.. maybe the souls power the ship? to use to much energy would mean the Daemon would lose its greatest weapon. Though it is powerful, the vessel is alone, and is wary of full fleets of ships. Plus, it is very, very old and i imagine not maintained for the most part.. hence many of its original weapons might not work..

 

I'm liking this more and more all the time! :P

 

Cheers

[soddinnutter]

Would not use 'soul reaver' unless you want people thinking about Legacy of Kain.

[Brother Delias]

Ok, here is my general answers to your questions(take them as you will)

 

1. I dont really want the chapter to be associated with the 'Horus Heresy' traitor legions.. Is it possible for the fallen chapter to serve a god of Chaos without being attached to the Chaos Space Marines as a whole?

 

Easy enough, you have many ways to go about this. The two easiest ones are as follows:

 

Renegade chapter: May very well fit with your idea of getting trapped on a space hulk, prehaps they turned renegade due to the presence of the daemon, maybe they were drawn to the Hulk by it, either way... Renegade chapters usually have NO ties with the traitor legions.

 

Pirate Faction: This is a cobbled together mix of the dregs of traitor society, renegades, and thos egenerally fallen from grace. They have no ties to anything exept themselves, and are only unified by a strong and usually bloodthristy warlord.

 

2. My aforementioned space hulk idea.. silly, or fesible? I might not neccessarily use a space hulk, it just seemed to fit the kind of atmosphere that might pervert my chapter. I know that the chapter creation guide says not to have chapters disappearing into the warp (as an excuse to miss a pile of history), but if there is an explanation for what is happening to them during this time is it ok?

 

Considering my Faction travels around on a planet taken over by a daemon under the control of a sorcerer?? simply, make a good enough story behind it, and it will work well enough to suite your needs.

 

3. How might a greater Daemon of Khorne come to be bound into a space hulk?

 

This one takes me back... I used to run a character on an RP chat site that was nothing more than a possessed weapon... Say there was a daemon weapon that had been lost on the hullk, or at one time there was a sorcerer that had summoned a daemon and the daemon left a residule presence on the hulk... again, your only limit is the limit of your own imagination.

 

4. Would a chapter be able to survive on a Space Hulk? Maybe they are able to set up a small scale forge onboad? maybe part of the hulk is a derelict battle barge, with plentiful stores? Maybe they simply resort to raiding for their supplies, and salvage what equipment they can in the aftermath of battle?

 

It seems you answered your own question here...

 

Obviously it isn't the whole chapter trapped on the hulk. I was thinking maybe just the Blood Guard (the chapters version of the Sanguinary Guard and personal retinue of the chapter master), so a relatively small number of marines.. maybe 100. This leaves me with two problems;

 

generally speaking 100 members is a standard loyalist battle company, with a chapter spanning 1000 members, knowing the general makeup of what makes a chapter should help.

 

1. Where do the Khornate's find their recruits? what stops the band dying out immediately? Their ranks will be supported by Daemons, and machines of war, but not even Space marines are invincible. I can't decide whether the feudal societies of their original homeworld would care, or even understand, that their new masters were in league with the Ruinous Powers.

 

Here, you have to think about your backstory alot... a simple thought is that a feudal society actually lends itself into worship of Khorne. You have to remember that Khorne is the embodiment of War. Feudal societies historically have always fought what were known as house battles, usually one on one battles for honor... rarely though, they became far more bloody. Choice there is up to you... my suggestion is do a little reasearch into the key elements of your backstory.

 

2. What happened to the rest of the chapter? The way i see it, they are either still hanging around somewhere (kills the homeworld idea), or i need to think of a reason for them to have all been destroyed.. Warp energies could have destroyed the fleet at the hulk, but the rest of the chapter?

 

Who knows... if there is a homeworld, then maybe the loyalist remains of the chapter escaped, and now harry the now much greater Khornate faction? Maybe they were killed off during the retaking of your homeworld, or(much to the hatred of the imperium) once the renegades return, they are able to convert the remaining loyalists.

 

 

You have a good thought process so far, it just needs refining... Work out the kinks, and you have a VERY good storyline to what can then be built as an EXCELLENT army... IMHO, an army without a storyline... is just a guy playing RISK, you're already 1up in my book

[BERZERKER!]

Just a big thanks to everyone for the help so far, its really nice that people take the time and effort to give such thorough feedback.

 

Would not use 'soul reaver' unless you want people thinking about Legacy of Kain.

 

Forgive my ignorance people, but i hadn't previously seen this game.. that's out the window. Im thinking of instead calling the Daemon/Ship "Soulrend". Thoughts?

[BERZERKER!]

Update added

[soddinnutter]

Looking good.

 

The Dark Mechanicus are possibly the least used aspect of the 40kverse that has so much potential.

 

Not necessarily 'evil' as such. They are the Mad Scientists of setting.

 

The Deamon may not have killed him because he is carrying forbidden warp-tech.

 

The Chapter may not have killed either of them when they first entered the Hulk because its 20 miles from one end to the other, labyrinthine and sometimes when it goes into the warp it's internal plan rearranges itself. They may not have been aware of each other for a few decades, and it may have been a few more decades before they ever met.