Some questions about...

[arctic]

I've been away from 40k for a while and have started to rebuild my space wolves army. I've some questions about making what models I've got as efficient as possible:

1. Is Lukas worth his points? I got the model given to me and it looks very nice, but should it just be used as a wolf guard or battle leader instead?

2. What is the optimal load out for terminators, who will probably be footslogging? Again, I like the new models and want to use them (I've not built them yet).

3. I've no tanks, and I'm not really keen on them. Is footslogging a viable alternative? If so, what else should I include in my army?

 

Many thanks!

[Shieldwall]

Hey man,

 

My opinion:

 

1. Lukas isn't worth his points. It's a very characterful and fluffy model, but his rules are plain bad. There are some people argueing for using him as a suicide bomb, however that's incredibly pricy pointswise AND incredibly unreliable. If you're playing friendly games with lots of background, go ahead, but otherwise just use him as something else.

 

2. I'd propably try to keep them as cheap as possible with high unit size if you're gonna footslog them. Put in one or two stormshields vs. the enemy's big guns, a chainfist, and cyclones/ assaultcannons. Combiweapons are also quite cheap and extremely useful, you're propably best off with combiplasmas for the extra range.

 

3. You can field footsloggers, and you can still win with footsloggers. However, a meched up opponent may well have an advantage if you can't manage to catch him. Keep your units cheap and big, and it's doable.

 

greets

[LPetersson]

Welcome Back :lol:

 

1) I wouldn't say so, but your mileage may vary...

 

2) As Shieldwall says, keep them cheap. Personally I like to run my termies in squads of 5 with the following combos: SB/SS, WC/CML, CF/Combi Weapon, PW/Combi Weapon, PW/SB. I normally make the two combi weapons the same for two squads so they can hit something particularly hard or be fairly certain that they're gonna take out a tank.

In this edition there's precious little reason to take Assault Cannons over CMLs...

If I have the spare points, I usually add another stormshield to one or more squads.

I then use dreanoughts for backup. A TL-HF/HF in a drop pod, a TL-LC/ML on foot and a vanilla dread on foot.

 

3) Absolutely, but it can be tricky against someone with AP2/3 templates...

[arctic]

Thanks for the replies! I didn't think Lukas was too good, but I do like the model so he might end up being a battle leader.

 

Interesting about using a dreadnought to support terminators. Do you not find you've got too many points in elite with not enough left over for heavy support and/or fast attack? I'll be playing 1500 points.

 

What kit do cyclone missile launchers come with? Or are they best got from a bits store?

[Bulweih]

Welcome back brother!

You could handle the situation by letting your terminators lead Grey Hunter packs foot slogging, but in all honesty, with 1.5k points a dread could be a bit much.

The cyclone comes with the terminator squad box, not the assault termies mind. If you can snatch it from a bitz store, go ahead, because the wolfed up assault cannon and heavy flamer already come with our terminator box as you know.

[LPetersson]

Thanks for the replies! I didn't think Lukas was too good, but I do like the model so he might end up being a battle leader.

 

Interesting about using a dreadnought to support terminators. Do you not find you've got too many points in elite with not enough left over for heavy support and/or fast attack? I'll be playing 1500 points.

 

What kit do cyclone missile launchers come with? Or are they best got from a bits store?

 

You're welcome :D

The model is pretty cool, aye, and I'd be tempted to get him as a wolf guard model.

 

Ahh yes, I should have pointed out that I run an all terminator army, so my termies are troops :lol:

 

You're best off getting the CML from a bits store in my opinion, but be prepared to wait a while, they are very rare...

[nurglez]

the only kit that comes with a cyclone launcher is the normal space marine terminators. Bits sites do sometimes stock them, but they are wanted by a lot of people, so they do sell out quickly.

 

I myself also run a all terminator army, and as they are renegade, I use the chaos havoc launcher as stand ins and they do fine, I generally have more good comments then bad <_<

[Niiai]

If you know somebody with drop pods the last part of the rocket launcher can work as a cuclone missile launcher. Just stick a bit of cardboard on the back and glue it straight horisontaly on the terminators top.

[Valerian]

1. I definitely don't think Lucas is worth the points; just use the model as a Wolf Guard, or something.

 

2. I don't know that there is an optimal load, but you'll want a heavy weapon, probably the CML if you can find one, but the Assault Cannon is still a great weapon, so don't fret over this too much. You'll want one or two with Chain Fists to help you easily deal with any vehicles/walkers you come into contact with. Thunderhammers and Power Fists are okay, but I'd always go with the Chain Fist for the extra d6 of AP. Take a couple Combi-weapons; we get 'em for real cheap compared to most armies. I go for Combi-plasma on Terminators as they'll almost never kill themselves from Gets Hot. Take one with a Storm Shield to try and defeat any incoming Lascannon shot. One cool thing about our Wolf Guard is that you can even throw in a couple 18 point "slick" Wolf Guard in Power Armour to act as meat shields, if you want to.

 

3. You can do "footslogging" and be successful, but you'll still need mobility. A lot of the game is about getting where you need to go. 2 of 3 standard Missions require you to get you units to Objectives to control them, while the final mission still requires you to get into position to destroy enemy units for Kill Points.

 

Mobility comes in two forms: Operational Mobility (getting to the battlefield), and Tactical Mobility (moving around on the battlefield). With Behind Enemy Lines, our Wolf Scouts have excellent Operational Mobility, and can arrive usually right where you want them on any board edge; but once the arrive they only have average Tactical Mobility. Drop Pod deployed units are similar with good OM, but average TM. It's a good idea to have one or more of these units in your footslogging lists.

 

Swift Claws, And Thunderwolf Cavalry have average OM (nothing special), but have great TM (especially Swift Claws with ability to Turbo-boost.

 

Sky Claws and Land Speeders have excellent TM, and with ability to Deep Strike, can have improved OM, as well.

 

You will need several units with good mobility to perform the tasks that your otherwise footslogging infantry will not be able to do for you. You won't be able to walk Grey Hunters all across the board to control enemy objectives or assault enemy support units. However, your units with good mobility can take care of those tasks (at peat contesting objectives for you), while your Grey Hunters, Wolf Guard, and others work on preventing the enemy from achieving his goals.

 

Many folks go "pure" and try to footslog every unit, Drop Pod every unit, or go mechanized and put every unit in a rhino or razorback. I go hybrid, with a little of each, in an attempt to get the exact capability that I think I need for each unit. My "typical" list consists of one unit in a Land Raider, three in Pods, one on Bikes, two coming in Behind Enemy Lines, and the rest just walking. Works well for me.

 

Valerian

[Decoy]

Lukas really only shines in Apocalypse games, when you can get him to suck down a Super-heavy in close combat. Even then, getting him there is nigh-impossible. However, the 1/10 times that it happens is absolutely priceless. "Your unharmed gargant is sucked into a stasis warp forever. Enjoy."

[Tsavong Lah]

What kit do cyclone missile launchers come with? Or are they best got from a bits store?

 

Cyclone Missile Launchers are almost impossible to find, and ridiculously expensive when you do come across them. I just use the Missile Launcher from the Imperial Guard Sentinels—with a little bit of cutting it can be made to fit onto a Terminator torso quite well, and they're very easy to find, since very few IG players seem to use them. My friend who plays IG had four sitting around that he didn't want, so I got my two CMLs for free. :devil:

[arctic]

Thanks again for the replies. I'll have a look at converting something into a cyclone missile launcher.

 

I plan on run a squad of long fangs (I'll put up an army list for review when I've got all my ideas together). Would it be better to put the CML with this squad, or run him with the rest of the terminators?

[Valerian]

Thanks again for the replies. I'll have a look at converting something into a cyclone missile launcher.

 

I plan on run a squad of long fangs (I'll put up an army list for review when I've got all my ideas together). Would it be better to put the CML with this squad, or run him with the rest of the terminators?

 

Lots of folks run him with the Long Fangs, but I prefer not to. The Fangs already have plenty of long ranged firepower, and you lose the advantage of Relentless if you attach the CML guy to them. Keeping him with Terminators gives that unit a heavy firepower capability they won't otherwise have, and he'll maintain his ability to be mobile. Alternately, you can attach him to a Grey Hunter pack, to improve their firepower.

 

For my Fang Packs, I attach 18 point Wolf Guard with no upgrades to act as meatshields for the expensive/important heavy weapons. I usually put the CML model with my Rear Guard Grey Hunter pack; he is great for helping them secure a fiendly Objective.

 

V

[arctic]

Thanks Valerian, this (and your previous post) is excellent advice. I will look at putting together an army list tomorrow and post it up over the next day or so.

[CainTheHunter]

Thanks again for the replies. I'll have a look at converting something into a cyclone missile launcher.

 

Typhoon missile launchers are the simpliest way to go. Another one is to use two bits of deathwind missile launcher from drop pod set, but that's a bit more tricky. E-bay is your friend as well - the old metal cyclon bits are available quite often, and with some patience You can get Yourself a couple of those. I managed to get them at fairly good price ~ 5-6 GBP for each, together with the old terminator metal models.

Just checked - there are several old metal space wolf termies with cyclone launcher on e-bay right now for 10 bucks if You are in US.

[Wildfire]

Lots of folks run him with the Long Fangs, but I prefer not to. The Fangs already have plenty of long ranged firepower, and you lose the advantage of Relentless if you attach the CML guy to them. Keeping him with Terminators gives that unit a heavy firepower capability they won't otherwise have, and he'll maintain his ability to be mobile. Alternately, you can attach him to a Grey Hunter pack, to improve their firepower.

 

For my Fang Packs, I attach 18 point Wolf Guard with no upgrades to act as meatshields for the expensive/important heavy weapons. I usually put the CML model with my Rear Guard Grey Hunter pack; he is great for helping them secure a fiendly Objective.

 

V

 

I'm going to voice a limited disagreement here. A naked WG is great for a LF pack, true. But including a CML termie with the LFs gives them some firepower even when they need to relocate (as they sometimes do). It also gives them some CC punch, whcih is good since they'll often be left in the back of the lines by themselves.

 

That being said, the primary disadvantage of termies in a LF pack (or any pack, really) is that it precludes the use of rhinos and razorbacks.