Shadowstalker Grim Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Some more 101 goodness: Command Squad Wargear: Plenty of special weapons and close combat gear to choose from for this squad Purpose: To act as an accompanying squad to a Captain or operate on their own as an elitist unit, or a counter charge unit. The Command Squad is something players can only access through the Captain. Without him they cannot be added. This squad weighs in at an unchangeable 5 men, 1 of which is an apocathery. Together however they form a tough bodyguard unit, or even a tough elite operating unit. They have the statline of veterans and plenty of wargear to match and the apocathery that rides with them gives them all Feel No Pain to boot, which makes them rather tough and hard hitting. They are quite happy taking special weapons and pumping out firepower, or taking close combat weaponry and leaping into the fray. They can also get access to the company champion and company banner to improve their statline also. This isn't where they end however as the command squad can also ride on bikes for a very fast and deadly (if costly) investment, bringing fast paced death to anything in their way. Loadouts: Cheap-and-Cheerful: Company Champion, Company Banner, rest barebones - A cheap squad that has a reasonable profile for engaging with enemies of lower strength, but not effective against anything harder hitting, but also you aren't investing in something that matters much if it dies. Half-Half: 2 melta guns, 2 plasmaguns - A tough combination to fight off enemies from a range and to threaten a wide profile of enemies, from vehicles to tough infantry. Plasma-power: 4 Plasmaguns - With 4 plasmaguns in one place you might expect at least one gunner to die from his weapon 'getting hot' however the apocathery brings Feel No Pain which helps to mitigate this effect a bit, making this squad a very lethal shooting platform for hardcore enemy units. Combat-rush: Company Champion, Company Banner, Power Weapon, Flamer - This squad is oriented to get into the fray as fast as possible and whacks out with a couple of nice power weapon attacks, whilst the flamer helps it prevent getting bogged down in hordes. Hellfire: 4 Flamers - Perhaps not overly individually, the combined flamers should help make light work of any light infantry and possibly provide enough wounds on tougher infantry to even remove harder units, the tough profile of the squad means that they won't be afraid of the frontline. Heavy-Hitters: 3 Power Weapons, 1 Powerfist, 4 Storm Shields - A combination that allows the squad a strong defence with the storm shields and to go and smash some faces in close combat with their weapons, the powerfist helps against vehicles such as dreadnoughts, to prevent them getting stuck Tank hunters: 4 Meltaguns, Squad on Bikes - A squad that can move fast and take out tanks happily, the bikes only help the unit get to the optimum position to blast side or rear armour and the 4 guns can kill off enemies easily Biker heavy hitters, very good along a RB captain on bike and perfect with Khan: Apothecary, four stormshields, three lightning claws, one thunder hammer, banner. You can also drop a LC and a SS to add a champion, the unit is a little less effective but costs less, plus the champion is really good looking ! You can also add a Chappy to hit faces even harder. - Death Star. It costs an arm and a leg, it's really tricky to use under 2000 pts, but if you like Über units this what you want. Apothecary Vet with meltagun, SS and LC, *2 Vet with meltagun, SS and LC and banner Vet with meltagun, SS and TH This is extremely expensive, but you can always take a champion, so you keep some points for other things, and you've got five different models for wound allocation trickeries. There are more variants and all of them can take bikes making them much faster and slightly tougher too, however these loadouts are the main types and generally people will use these or a variant of these. Strengths: The Command Squad has obvious strengths, its members are tough as nails. Armed with a tough statline and an excellent inventory of wargear they are indeed a dangerous unit. The real problem for them is figuring out what they are going to do. Often they work best with the captain and backing up what he does, which is often getting stuck into a fight somewhere and can take plenty of wargear in order to acheive this end. They can also operate alone as a special weapons platform as nowhere else in our army list can we get access to a squad with so many special weapons. They can also operate well as counter charge unit, sitting back in the lines and waiting for the enemy to draw into their assault range, which can help keep pressure of your important shooting units. On bikes they are particularly proficient at any role as they run no risk of having their transport blown away from them! Weaknesses: The weaknesses of the Command Squad are fairly few really. Weighing in at 115 points for a 5 man squad that has access to an enormous armoury is their problem. Upgrading the squad can get very exensive, very quickly and once you've given each member a piece of kit that member becomes worth an awful lot! Theres much to be said for keeping one guy barebones in case someone needs to take a hit! But also they can only ever be 5 men strong and only 4 can take upgrades, the apocathery adds to the squad, but cannot contribute in a fight really and if he dies the whole squad loses its Feel No Pain! The squad will likely need a transport which, because of the cost will probably be a target and more so if its been upgraded and the captain is riding with it, unless its a biker squad, in which case it becomes massively expensive and has no armoured hull protecting it at all. The squad also can only be unlocked through the captain which means even if you just want the squad you have to pay at least 100 points for the captain in the first place! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2590192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowstalker Grim Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Master Of The Forge Wargear: Servo Harness OR Conversion beamer, power weapon, thunder hammer, combi weapons and bike as possible upgrades Purpose: Unlocks Dreadnoughts (any variety) as Heavy Support, Cheap leader, Long ranged firepower, Techmarine abilities. The Master Of The Forge (MOTF) is an odd character that compares to the Chaplain and Librarian. He has a nice reasonable selection of gear, though it certainly isn't long. But what it is suits him well. He can either use his harness to be up close and personal, or shoot with the exceptionally powerful conversion beamer from as far away as he can get! Generally he is taken to make Dreadnoughts available as Heavy Support choices, perfect for those drop podding or dreadnought armies. He can also take a bike to move with biker armies or to make maximum use of the conversion beamer's ability. Loadouts: Generally there are 2 loadouts - Servo-Harness, Power Weapon, Digital Weapons - Packing a reasonable close combat punch he'll move with dreads to keep them in good repair or he'll work with other units to try and give a reasonable bashing in close combat. Bike, Conversion Beamer - Though he sacrafices his servo harness for this weapon, he won't need to be anywhere near the front line and instead he prefers to move as fast away as he can and shoot the enemy with his gun to make the hardest of enemies take an exceptionalyl painful shot. His bike only helps him to keep his favoured distance. Strengths: The obvious strength of the MOTF is that he can bring lots of dreadnoughts to the field. After all this is probably why you are taking him and if you look at the dreadnought theres a good reason to have more of them! The MOTF himself is a reasonable fighter with artificer armour which gives him a decent 2+ save and 2 wounds which makes him pretty good in comparsion to the librarian and chaplain. The MOTF is also cheap at 100 points, making him reasonable as an addition to a force for his ability and modest combat ability. In his servo harness form he adds a reasonable punch to a unit and can confer his abilities there, or he can take the dreaded and deadly conversion beamer. The Conversion Beamer works better from the further away it is, which is often why he'll need the bike. Although the beamer takes away his precious servo harness it is a very powerful gun and at maximum efficiency can carve through just about anything he shoots at! The MOTF can also bolster defences, allowing some lucky unit a tough place to house up in! Weaknesses: The downfalls of the MOTF however are numerous. Whilst the Librarian and Chaplain help buff units, the MOTF can only add the same kind to more places. He himself isn't great. His servo harness form is reasonable but hardly dangerous for anything determined to hurt him, which isn't too hard as the only thing he has to protect himself is his artificer armour and with a mere two wounds, he'll probably die if anything wants to kill him particularly. Meanwhile the conversion beamer doesn't really work on foot, he needs to maintain distance and he can't do that walking...heck he can't do it being ferried really either, he needs the bike, which is a costly upgrade. Alone on a bike doesn't neccessarily mean hes going to be any safer either so he'll need to join an accompanying biker unit to be safe, which then don't contribute much as the MOTF is trying to keep away. If the enemy manage to get close however his gun isn't overly useful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2590229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowstalker Grim Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 I guess i'll finish of HQs Honour Guard Wargear: Chapter Banner, Power Weapons, Artificer Armour, Auxilary Grenade Launcher, Relic Blades AND chance for Thunder Hammer and Digital Lasers for Champion Purpose: Accompanying the Chapter Master, Butchering Infantry, Counter Charge unit The Honour Guard are the elite bodyguards who accompany the Chapter Master. As befits them they come with some hardcore gear, every member has a power weapon and artificer armour. They can be likened to a scythe perhaps, cutting into enemies rapidly with a massive number of attacks that is only enhanced by the chapter banner and killing everything before the enemy can even retaliate. This fearsome squad can take some real punishment and whilst their upgrades are few, they are deadly ones found in few other places. Loadouts: Barebones: Chapter Champion, 2 Members - Smallest possible configuration as the base setup, it's small but hard hitting though won't take long to kill off Out of the Box: 2 Members, Champion, Banner - The out of the box set up packs plenty of punch and a relic blade on the champion can make it all the harder, generally it doesn't need to be much bigger to kill off what it hits Honour Guard Team: 3 Members, Champion, Banner - Only one member bigger than the out of the box loadout and the same size as the command squad unit, this unit takes an extra member, which can make all the difference in killing off enemy units (Around these parts you'll often hear this called the 'Idaho Pattern' because Captain Idaho coined the phrase and this is the loadout he uses, he argues a good case why its the optimum loadout too!) Bigger is Better: 9 Members, Champion, Banner - A large squad that weighs in costing a LOT of points, but will probably kill just about anything it hits, and can take quite a few losses before it becomes too weak to continue. Calgars lot: Same as above x3 - Ok its a horrific number of points to field and only Marneus Calgar can allow it, but this many honour guard are sure to make light work of the enemy! Strengths: The Honour Guard are a tough unit and with each model packing amazing starting gear its easy to see why! The Honour Guard can expect to make light work of even heavy infantry with their weapons and can take a bit of punishment with their tough armour, the upgrades for the unit only help to make them stronger and harder hitting, particularly the Chapter Banner and relic blades! Even a small squad can scythe their way through enemies, killing most, if not all, of them before the Honour Guard get struck back. A unit like this is best off pursuing enemies and killing them, although they can perform well as counter charge units too. Weaknesses: Honour Guard sadly are going to be few in number as they are a costly investment and are going to have a hard time taking casualties. As the squads are small anyway, they are really relying on killing the enemy before they get chance to retaliate as otherwise the loss of just one or two members can leave the squad without enough punching power to deal with enemies efficiently. They also lose out compared to the command squad who have access to Feel No Pain and whilst they have artificer armour, that can only do so much to protect them. They also cannot take many special weapons beyond melee upgrades and the auxilary grenade launcher, so they cannot replicate the Command Squad's special weapons platform and are much more melee oriented. The squad size starts off smaller too and making additions and upgrades again becomes very expensive very quickly for the Honour Guard. As with most marine units, the Honour Guard will fear enemy elite units such as Banshees, as they will strike first and tear right through the Honour Guard's armour, killing them off quickly! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2590250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted December 15, 2010 Author Share Posted December 15, 2010 Some good guides there Shadowstalker Grim. The Command Squad and MotF seem spot on to me, and the Honour look very good as well. A couple of things for the Honour Guard, perhaps (with permission of course) we could put the Idaho pattern Honour Guard squad in there, and also perhaps make it a little more explicit that elite combat units like Banshees will prove a big problem to the Honour Guard. Other than that thank you for 3 more top notch tacticas, and it looks like we just have the Elites and Fast Attack sections left. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2590402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted December 15, 2010 Author Share Posted December 15, 2010 Time for a Fast Attack 101. Attack Bikes Wargear: twin-linked bolters and heavy bolters on a 2 wound Space Marine Bike, and with options to upgrade the heavy bolter to a multi-melta. Purpose: quick response anti-infantry or tank hunting unit. The Space Marine attack bike is similar to the Land Speeder in that it is fast, and is one of the ways to mount melta on a fast platform. At a relatively cheap points cost a squadron of attack bikes can prove a big threat to more expensive tanks, turbo boosting close by before pouncing, eradicating the threat with precise melta blasts. Strengths: The attack bike is capable of mounting weaponry for either infantry or tanks, and so are flexible when it comes to list building, although they aren't as flexible on the field. With access to cheap multi-meltas, and being a relentless, fast platform the attack bikes can hunt down tanks and destroy them easily. Their high toughness and two wounds enable them to take some punishment, and debris from exploding tanks is very unlikely to hurt them. They also have two attacks standard, and so can be used to attempt to tie up enemy units in assault if all tanks are destroyed. They can turbo boost to their target, giving them a good cover save in the process, and due to their low profile are easy to hide. Weaknesses: With only power armour a precise krak missile or lascannon shot will kill them instantly. Furthermore, they cannot jump over terrain, and must therefore risk dangerous terrain checks, limiting their mobility. Once their targets are destroyed, they swiftly run out of utility as they aren't flexible enough to cope with both infantry and vehicles, and they are still vulnerable to being locked in assault and being hurt by small arms fire. Their deployment options are limited, meaning they may have to turbo boost across the open and hope on their cover saves before getting a chance to engage their target. Common builds: 2x multi-meltas: a small, cheap unit designed to take out big enemy transports 3x multi-meltas/heavy bolters: maximum amount of bikers you can take, the multi-meltas ensure tanks are destroyed, while the heavy bolters form a reaction unit designed to destroy units of enemy infantry. 2x multi-meltas and 1 heavy bolter: a unit designed to hunt tanks, using a heavy bolter bike to give some diversity and a bullet shield. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2590409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ookami_81 Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 Some more 101 goodness: Command Squad Wargear: Plenty of special weapons and close combat gear to choose from for this squad Purpose: To act as an accompanying squad to a Captain or operate on their own as an elitist unit, or a counter charge unit. The Command Squad is something players can only access through the Captain. Without him they cannot be added. This squad weighs in at an unchangeable 5 men, 1 of which is an apocathery. Together however they form a tough bodyguard unit, or even a tough elite operating unit. They have the statline of veterans and plenty of wargear to match and the apocathery that rides with them gives them all Feel No Pain to boot, which makes them rather tough and hard hitting. They are quite happy taking special weapons and pumping out firepower, or taking close combat weaponry and leaping into the fray. They can also get access to the company champion and company banner to improve their statline also. This isn't where they end however as the command squad can also ride on bikes for a very fast and deadly (if costly) investment, bringing fast paced death to anything in their way. Loadouts: Cheap-and-Cheerful: Company Champion, Company Banner, rest barebones - A cheap squad that has a reasonable profile for engaging with enemies of lower strength, but not effective against anything harder hitting, but also you aren't investing in something that matters much if it dies. Half-Half: 2 melta guns, 2 plasmaguns - A tough combination to fight off enemies from a range and to threaten a wide profile of enemies, from vehicles to tough infantry. Plasma-power: 4 Plasmaguns - With 4 plasmaguns in one place you might expect at least one gunner to die from his weapon 'getting hot' however the apocathery brings Feel No Pain which helps to mitigate this effect a bit, making this squad a very lethal shooting platform for hardcore enemy units. Combat-rush: Company Champion, Company Banner, Power Weapon, Flamer - This squad is oriented to get into the fray as fast as possible and whacks out with a couple of nice power weapon attacks, whilst the flamer helps it prevent getting bogged down in hordes. Hellfire: 4 Flamers - Perhaps not overly individually, the combined flamers should help make light work of any light infantry and possibly provide enough wounds on tougher infantry to even remove harder units, the tough profile of the squad means that they won't be afraid of the frontline. Heavy-Hitters: 3 Power Weapons, 1 Powerfist, 4 Storm Shields - A combination that allows the squad a strong defence with the storm shields and to go and smash some faces in close combat with their weapons, the powerfist helps against vehicles such as dreadnoughts, to prevent them getting stuck There are more variants and all of them can take bikes making them much faster and slightly tougher too, however these loadouts are the main types and generally people will use these or a variant of these. Strengths: The Command Squad has obvious strengths, its members are tough as nails. Armed with a tough statline and an excellent inventory of wargear they are indeed a dangerous unit. The real problem for them is figuring out what they are going to do. Often they work best with the captain and backing up what he does, which is often getting stuck into a fight somewhere and can take plenty of wargear in order to acheive this end. They can also operate alone as a special weapons platform as nowhere else in our army list can we get access to a squad with so many special weapons. They can also operate well as counter charge unit, sitting back in the lines and waiting for the enemy to draw into their assault range, which can help keep pressure of your important shooting units. On bikes they are particularly proficient at any role as they run no risk of having their transport blown away from them! Weaknesses: The weaknesses of the Command Squad are fairly few really. Weighing in at 115 points for a 5 man squad that has access to an enormous armoury is their problem. Upgrading the squad can get very exensive, very quickly and once you've given each member a piece of kit that member becomes worth an awful lot! Theres much to be said for keeping one guy barebones in case someone needs to take a hit! But also they can only ever be 5 men strong and only 4 can take upgrades, the apocathery adds to the squad, but cannot contribute in a fight really and if he dies the whole squad loses its Feel No Pain! The squad will likely need a transport which, because of the cost will probably be a target and more so if its been upgraded and the captain is riding with it, unless its a biker squad, in which case it becomes massively expensive and has no armoured hull protecting it at all. The squad also can only be unlocked through the captain which means even if you just want the squad you have to pay at least 100 points for the captain in the first place! For the command squad you can add three loadouts on bikes. They are costy but they have their place in a Bike list with a Biker captain or Khan. Usually you want your command squad to be CC oriented in order to balance the relatively poor performance of biker armies in this aspect of the fight. But there could be exceptions. - Tank hunters: Apothecary, four meltaguns, five bikes. That unit will show its usefullness when facing huge meched army like IG. There is never enough melta against squadrons of heavy tanks. - CC heavy hitters, very good along a RB captain on bike and perfect with Khan: Apothecary, four stormshields, three lightning claws, one thunder hammer, banner. You can also drop a LC and a SS to add a champion, the unit is a little less effective but costs less, plus the champion is really good looking ! You can also add a Chappy to hit faces even harder. - Death Star. It costs an arm and a leg, it's really tricky to use under 2000 pts, but if you like Über units this what you want. Apothecary Vet with meltagun, SS and LC, *2 Vet with meltagun, SS and LC and banner Vet with meltagun, SS and TH This is extremely expensive, but you can always take a champion, so you keep some points for other things, and you've got five different models for wound allocation trickeries. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2590793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted December 16, 2010 Author Share Posted December 16, 2010 That's a fantastic summary on biker command squads Ookami_81, we'll put that under common builds as well :D. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2590843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowstalker Grim Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 Well thank you or the good feedback! @ DarkGuard Some good points on the HG, though i'd be reluctant to name a group 'Idaho pattern' not because I have anything against the term or Idaho, but because new people may not who Idaho is or why its called the Idaho pattern, I just think that may be a bit confusing! However I'll add it in as it is an exceptional loadout with I believe: 3 Members, Champ, Banner. @Ookami_81 I noted that all loadouts are often taken on bikes so the melta squad one is covered, however i feel the last 2 are worthy of their own slots! Thanks for pointing them out! If you don't mind I'll add them to my post Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2590865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ookami_81 Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 @Ookami_81 I noted that all loadouts are often taken on bikes so the melta squad one is covered, however i feel the last 2 are worthy of their own slots! Thanks for pointing them out! Oops didn't see it. On a second thought I don't see a four melta load out, but maybe it's sleepless night over sleepless night that blinds me. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2590877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowstalker Grim Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 Crumbs! You're right! Bah silly me! Yup I'll add 4 meltas! There was me thinking 4 plasmas! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2590878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted December 16, 2010 Author Share Posted December 16, 2010 Well thank you or the good feedback! @ DarkGuard Some good points on the HG, though i'd be reluctant to name a group 'Idaho pattern' not because I have anything against the term or Idaho, but because new people may not who Idaho is or why its called the Idaho pattern, I just think that may be a bit confusing! However I'll add it in as it is an exceptional loadout with I believe: 3 Members, Champ, Banner. Well it is Idaho's squad, but I see what you mean. You could just state it, and perhaps at the end of the description say it was inspired by Captain Idaho on these forums. Other than that, its looking good. Plus, 6 more entries left, getting close now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2590886 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowstalker Grim Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 IronClad Dreadnoughts Wargear: Hurricane Bolter Arm AND/OR Chainfist Arm AND/OR Seismic Hammer Arm AND/OR Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon Arm (can take 2 possible arms obviously), Some built in weapons and some upgrades Purpose: An assault dreadnought, for close range fighting The Ironclad is a dreadnought built solely for fighting up close and personal. It sits a head and shoulders over its bretheren with AV 13 for the most part instead of AV 12, which helps it shrug off all but determined firepower. It's wargear selection is adept at helping it kill off enemies in close combat and short range fights, whether they be vehicle or infantry. Generally it's lack of long range power means that it can be a little wasted if it walks, but a drop pod gets it right into its optimum position for killing and will inevitably draw a lot of fire! This beast of a vehicle is what marines use to get up close and personal with the enemy! Loadouts: Seismic Hammer, DCCW, Built in Heavy Flamers - Often Drop Podded into the ranks of the enemy and with its armament it can walk straight out and start frying enemy infantry, its DCCW and Thunder Hammer should make light work of vehicles if catches them and will warrant a lot of firepower at it. Will struggle to do as much damage to vehicles as it has only flamers, so could end up slightly redundent there. Seismic Hammer, DCCW, Heavy Flamer, Meltagun - Same as above really, but less focus on the anti-infantry and a bit more anti-tank punch at a range too, much more efficient at covering a variety of roles than the above loadout. Hurricane Bolter, Chainfist, Hunter Killer Missiles - Able to operate a bit more at a range, it may be viable to walk to the fray. Its Missiles give it some decent punch at a range against vehicles, whilst the hurricane bolter handles infantry and the chainfist can take out vehicles Strengths: Generally this dreadnought is all about the up close and personal, once inside this optimum bracket, it can can lay down some serious killing power on a range of targets. Generally though it can be most threatening to enemy backline vehicles when combined with the drop pod, indeed it seems like it was designed to operate in a drop pod! Once it lands it tough armour profile keeps it safe from most fire and it'll force the enemy to engage it, or risk severe damage! This is why the Ironclad is so fearsome, it demands enemy attention! Weaknesses: The Ironclad has problems operating outside short range fights as its weaponry isn't exactly long ranged. This often means that it can be left high and dry, doing little in a battle if placed badly. Also drop podding in alone will probably see it die a very quick death and is often written off as a suicide dreadnought. It's weaponry may threaten vehicles, but it can have a hard time catching them on foot and may well spend ages playing catch-up, trying desperately to hit the vehicle with its arms! The Ironclad also suffers the same problems as its regular and Venerable bretheren, in that it has too few attacks to be able to cut its way out of a horde all by itself and can end up tied up! The fact it remains at S4 too also reduces the otherwise Close Combat orientation, rather than being stronger Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2590887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 Well thank you or the good feedback! @ DarkGuard Some good points on the HG, though i'd be reluctant to name a group 'Idaho pattern' not because I have anything against the term or Idaho, but because new people may not who Idaho is or why its called the Idaho pattern, I just think that may be a bit confusing! However I'll add it in as it is an exceptional loadout with I believe: 3 Members, Champ, Banner. Well it is Idaho's squad, but I see what you mean. You could just state it, and perhaps at the end of the description say it was inspired by Captain Idaho on these forums. Other than that, its looking good. Plus, 6 more entries left, getting close now. I'm flattered, but it's not neccessary. :P Whilst I seem to use Honour Guard the most in the whole world, I'm sure other players would have used the same configuration had the inclination. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2590974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted December 16, 2010 Author Share Posted December 16, 2010 @Shadowstalker Grim: thanks again for another 101, a couple of points to make, mainly being that perhaps to emphasise the fact that the heavy flamer/meltagun is common as it can threaten anything when it hits the ground, whereas dual flamer is useless against mech or if you scatter next to a land raider. Also, it is still WS4, and so isn't amazing in a fight, despite the extra attack. And, it's a seismic hammer :P. Otherwise it looks good. @Captain Idaho: no problem, you deserve credit for making them work in your army, I doubt I'd get them working in mine (I can't even take them in mine!). Definitely deserves a mention as they seem a dangerous unit on the field of battle. Also to all, we have 5 101s left, so if you see one you like go for it! I myself haven't had much experience with the remaining units (though I may comment on Techmarines), and am now currently looking to start editing all the other 101s for the final compilation, so if I'm not on here as much then you know why, it's not that I've lost interest in my own project. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2591305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowstalker Grim Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Vanguard Veterans Wargear: Various Close combat weaponry, jump packs, Plasma pistols Purpose: Close combat oriented squad, engaging enemies in combat or counter charging The vanguard veterans are the elite fighting units of the space marines, the proverbial scalpel of the astartes assault forces, unlike the sledgehammer that is assault terminators. They come with the standard veteran profile and wargear and start off armed in a similar fashion to assault marines, but with different wargear options. They are much more lethal in a close combat fight! Indeed they could even be elite units, but find themselves in fast attack thanks to their jump pack options. They can engage a range of targets, but excel at sweeping infantry units away with their attacks. Loadouts: Barebones: Bolt Pistols, Chainswords - Armed with what they came with, this squad can dish out a nice number of attacks at a more budget price, although it cannot deal with tougher enemies as easily Half-Half: 2 with Power weapons, 2 with Storm Shields - A tougher and more resilient squad that can dish out some nasty attacks and still take in some attacks thanks to the storm shields, the few upgrades keeps the squad cheaper too Shooting-Slashing: 2 Power Weapons, 2 Plasma Pistols - A more offensive mix than above, it is likely to kill some enmies in the shooting before hand and then dish out some nasty combat punishment too All out: 4 Power Weapons, Thunder Hammer - A much more offensive mix, this squad is going to be quite pricey and take a few hits, but it'll deal out some nasty death to enemy units. UberHellDeathSquad: Jump Packs, Plasma Pistols, Power Weapons and Relic Blade for 10 members - Fast moving and powerful, this squad will decimate almost anything it wants apart from vehicles. The many plasma pistols stand a chance of opening light vehicles, whilst also being exceptional at puncturing heavy infantry. The weaponry will cleave most enemy units down before any retaliation. Each member is worth around 60 points however! Strengths: As befits a close combat squad, the vanguard excel in fighting. They have options for all kinds of weaponry to help them bring death to enemies in melee, which helps them engage more targets. They have the options for jump packs to help them reach combat faster, although they can just take a regular transport. Their decent statline means that they can help kill off enemies reasonably and they appear in fast attack, despite their otherwise elite nature. They can also deepstrike with jump packs and can use a special rule 'Heroic Intervention' to get straight into the battle! Also their wargear is relatively unique to a unit outside of the command squad or honour guard, no other unit can take this many power weapons! Weaknesses: The weaknesses of vanguard come in their cost. They start at 10 points more than a command squad and don't get access to the same special rules to make them as survivable. They get expensive quickly as with squads like this and its easy to throw upgrades onto them. The squads cost is one downside, the other is that they can either take jump packs which are extremely expensive for a whole squad, or they take a transport which can be destroyed Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2591861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Vanguard VeteransThe vanguard veterans are the elitist fighting units of the space marines. Being elite is diffferent from being elitest... VV are the scalpel of Astartes assault forces.. sounds better, as you can compare them to the hammer of Assault Termies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2591926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted December 17, 2010 Author Share Posted December 17, 2010 Another good 101 Shadowstalker Grim, I can't see anything wrong except perhaps what Captain Juan Juarez has already pointed out. Techmarines Wargear: Servo arm, bolter/ boltpistol and artificer armour, with options for a power weapon, thunder hammer, bike and combi weapons, plasma pistol and storm bolter. He may also upgrade the servo arm to a servo harness incorporating two servo arms, a flamer and a twin-linked plasma pistol, plus the ability to fire two weapons a turn. Purpose: Maintaining Space Marine vehicles and close range support. The Techmarine is a support character designed to repair and maintain Space Marine vehicles in the middle of battle, able to fix weapon destroyed and immobilized results, which his servo harness helps him with. Furthermore, he can be formidable at close range, with a variety of powerful close range weaponry and special close combat attacks, and can unlock servitors. A final ability of his allows him to increase the cover saves of a ruin by 1, making it easier for units inside to survive. Strengths: The Techmarine is a support character who's main strength is in the Bolster Defences ability, allowing him to increase the cover save a ruin by one. This allows units such as scout snipers to hide in them safely and provide covering firepower while taking few casualties themselves. The Techmarine can also repair vehicles, helping a mech army have more staying power as the vehicles keep on going. Finally, Techmarines can be fearsome up close, with access to a flamer and plasma weaponry which can lay waste to many different units. Also, his artificer armour makes him survivable against all but the most powerful weapons. He is also one of the few ways to access servitors, which can bring some cheap firepower and better vehicle repair to the army. Weaknesses: The Techmarine is still a support character and isn't as amazing in combat as a Captain. He has no invulnerable save, and with only one wound, and a pretty much standard Marine statline he can easily be brought low in combat. Taking the servo harness increases his cost dramatically, and you can end up spending 100pts odd on a one wound model. Furthermore, unless accompanied by Servitors it is highly unlikely that he will be able to consistently repairing vehicles, and so cannot be relied on for his primary role. His best strength, Bolster Defences can be wasted if there are no ruins in your deployment zone, or if you have no need of them. Furthermore, the enemy may capture the ruin, thereby taking away your advantage and making it their own. Finally, the Techmarine itself faces a lot of competition from other choices for the valuable Elites slot. Common builds: Barebones: taken for Bolster Defences and the odd vehicle repairing role, maybe also taken to access servitors. Servo-harness: taken for better close up support, better at repairing vehicles, and still gives Bolster Defences. May be taken with a power weapon or thunder hammer to supplement close combat potential. Servo-harness, plasma pistol: has the ability to fire two plasma pistols in one turn, one being twin-linked, proving more dangerous against MEQ, TEQ and light vehicles. His artificer armour save makes it unlikely that he'll die from an overheat. Servo-harness, bike, thunder hammer: Fast and hits hard in combat. Tougher to kill due to the toughness increase given by the bike. Can also reach stranded vehicles with ease due to the mobility given. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2592135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted December 17, 2010 Author Share Posted December 17, 2010 And to finish off the Elites section... Servitors Wargear: Servo-arm, with the option of replacing it for a heavy bolter, multi-melta or plasma cannon. Purpose: Support for Techmarine in combat and repairing vehicles, or long-ranged firebase. The servitor unit is one of the more curious units in the Space Marine codex. They are incredibly cheap, but can one unit can only be taken for each Master of the Forge or Techmarine in the army. Furthermore, they take up an Elites slot, unlike the Command Squad and Honour Guard. The servitors also have the weakest statline in the Space Marine codex and may spend the turn doing nothing. However, at range they can be fearsome, laying down a multitude of firepower. Strengths: Servitors start out cheap, and used barebones they can be an excellent way to support and enhance the Techmarine's vehicle repairing abilites. Furthermore, all of them can take a heavy weapon and still be cheaper than an attack bike, while having more variety. This allows them to lay down a fearsome amount of firepower against the enemy. Weaknesses: The Servitors do not have a Marine statline, rather matching a Guard statline with a better armour save and leadership. This means that heavy flamers, heavy bolters and autocannons will easily rip through them while they would struggle against power armoured Marines. Despite wielding servo-arms they aren't good in combat with a low weapon skill, toughness and armour save. They also need another choice in order to take them, raising their points cost superficially. Perhaps their biggest problem is the Mindlock rule, which means that unless a Techmarine or MotF is with them they have a half a chance of doing nothing for a turn unless already in combat. Furthermore, they take up an Elites slot, which is already hotly contested. Common builds: Barebones: used to support the Techmarine in repairing vehicles and in close combat. Heavy bolters: a firebase squad capable of putting out a lot of firepower against light infantry. Plasma cannons: a firebase squad capable of putting out a lot of firepower against infantry and light vehicles. Especially useful against Space Marines and Terminators, and the blast rules more or less override their poor BS. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2592149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted December 17, 2010 Author Share Posted December 17, 2010 Land Speeder Storm Wargear: heavy bolter, jamming beacon and cerberus launcher. Has the option to upgrade the heavy bolter to a heavy flamer, multi-melta or assault cannon. Purpose: Fast scout vehicle able to transport scouts and disrupt enemy battle strategy. The Land Speeder Storm (LSS) is a scout vehicle for the scouts in the Space Marine army, able to get in position with ease before launching a devastating attack. Able of equipping an array of different weapons to help support the scouts and defend themselves, the LSS also carries a jamming beacon which disrupts enemy Deep Striking, while the cerberus launcher works to demoralise enemies in assault, giving the advantage to the trainee Marines in close combat. It is also one of only two vehicles in the codex which is open topped, and is the only vehicle exclusive to scouts. Strengths: The LSS is a fast skimmer, and so can move very fast and claim cover saves. It also has a vast array of deployment options, including the ability to Deep Strike and the scouts special rule. This allows it to either fly into the middle of the board mid game, or either reposition itself after deployment or come in from reserve on the board edges. These deployment options can lead to first turn alpha strikes disabling tanks or crippling infantry formations, or allowing the LSS to make last moment objective grabs and threaten the flanks of the enemy's army. The jamming beacon makes it hard for enemies to respond to the LSS' attack by preventing Deep Strikers from using homing devices, plus making them scatter more. This can be all that is needed to protect your scouts for one more turn while your own reinforcements arrive. The cerberus launcher is also a handy piece of wargear which allows a group of combat scouts to be more likely to cause the enemy to break in assault, allowing them to run them down in one turn. The LSS also has huge flexibility in its options, allowing it to threaten infantry, tanks, or both. It's open topped nature allows all scouts inside to shoot out of it, while they themselves cannot be targeted until the LSS is killed. Weaknesses: The LSS is still a Land Speeder, and so have armour 10 all round. Furthermore, to compound on this it is open topped, making it even easier to kill. Also, as it is a fast skimmer, if it moves flat out but somehow immobilises itself in the same turn the scouts inside will die. While the jamming beacon can be handy in preventing enemy homers, it also prevents your own from working, although you'll still scatter normal distance. The cerberus launcher is only beneficial in combat, something scouts aren't quite so good at with their lower weapon skill and armour save, and only works if the scouts win combat, which may not occur every time. The LSS is also crewed by scouts, and so it is only BS3. This therefore most of its weapon upgrades undesirable as you paying many points for a weapon on a flimsy platform that will miss half the time. It also has a limited transport capacity of 5 scouts, meaning that they have little staying power, while if it chooses to outflank there is no telling where or when it will turn up. However, the biggest problem with the LSS is that it isn't a dedicated transport. Strange though it may be, considering it can only carry scouts, it cannot be taken as a dedicated transport. They are not in squadrons either, and so you can only take a maximum of 3, and this would therefore leave you with no more Fast Attack slots. Common builds: Heavy bolter: default set up and only weapon provided in kit, offer cheapest option of transporting scouts, and can threaten infantry and light armour. Rate of fire somewhat mitigates poor BS. Heavy flamer: common as an outflanking objective stealer unit. Nearly always with close range scouts in it, it swoops in, clears the objective of enemies and allows the scouts to take it. The heavy flamer completely overrides the disadvantage of a lower BS as it doesn't need it. Multi-melta: used in alpha strike units, normally carring scouts with a combi-melta and meltabomb. This LSS deploys normally but uses its scout move to get closer to an enemy tank, before using its normal move to land next to it, allowing a double melta shot against the tank and possibly assault if needed. Assault cannon: not as common as other builds due to expense, but low BS is mitigated somewhat by rate of fire. Seen on outflanking Speeders so as to get shots on side armour. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2592410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowstalker Grim Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 @Juan Juarez You make a good point and it sounds good, consider it slightly updated! @DarkGuard Two very nice 101s there, well done! I'm not too sure about them, but i'll try finishing this off with Scout Bikers Wargear: Bikes with built in twin bolters, shotguns, typical scout sergeant gear, cluster mines, astartes grenade launcher, melta-bombs, locator beacon Purpose: Infiltrating support, assist in deploying deep striking units, running interference These fabled scout bikers take all the benefits of bikers and scouts and combine them. They move fast and are great for early harrassment and to deploy the reserve units where they need to go. They are more of a support unit than a purely offensive one, but are cheaper than regular bikers and can fit into a force quite nicely and particularly fit into a biker list well, but also make excellent support units for characters on bikes if you don't want to put too much investment into the bikes. Loadouts: More or less as they are, but with a few additions to help them in the role people want, usually additions such as locator beacons Strengths: The scout bikers are similar to both bikers and scouts and combine the speed of bikers with the stealth of scouts. They are excellent to use to outmaneuver enemies and help to bring in supporting troops on target. This means they bring in their own support, meanwhile they themselves can provide light firepower to the enemy and help harrass enemy units, also their low threat profile means that they can do their job without drawing so much fire! Weaknesses: Unfortunately the scout bikers suffer the weaknesses of both bikers and scouts, resulting in a fragile and weak unit. The unit starts small and, although it can take extra units it is going to costa lot for a unit that cannot take much fire. Their damage output is also comparatively small and are not dedicated attack units, whilst operate at a shorter range. Regardless of whether the biker captain is taken, the scouts are still only fast attacks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2592642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted December 18, 2010 Author Share Posted December 18, 2010 Thanks Shadowstalker Grim, that seems to be a good and fair assessment of Scout Bikers. Their major strength in my opinion is certainly the use of a locator beacon in Drop Pod armies, while their mines are good for disrupting enemy strategy. As that's all of them I'd better go over them all and edit them all so their all on the same template, hopefully it'll be out before the 25th ;). Thanks again to everyone who has helped me and Shadowstalker Grim with this 101. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2592665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ookami_81 Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 You an also add as a drawbak that even with a biker captain, they can't be taken as troops, even if they're scouts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2593392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowstalker Grim Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 Thanks for that Ookami_81, i've made a few amendments there now! Building an army: This is perhaps the hardest part of the Codex: Space Marines. It comes down from many many factors, many of which are equally important! A lot of what you might want to use might come from what you have, or what you'd like to have , how you play, strategies you like and other factors like this. Often a good list comes from being assembled around a certain single idea or unit that the rest of the army is constructed around. Other kinds are just hashes of units that people have and these can work well too! The first thing you should really do is think about the core of your army, what do you like and want to see? I'd encourage people to try and take what they like and play for fun than to be obsessed with a few units that perform underpar with others in direct comparsion and thus ignore them. As I said the first step usually involves thinking of the idea or unit you want to try and strategise around, whether it be a drop pod army or an army that focusses on making use of honour guard, something will probably be the pivotal idea in your list. Special Characters usually warrant the list to be designed around them, although a few of them make nice additions to most lists. After this comes kitting out the list to do a range of jobs. Any list should be able to take on a range of foes, as most armies pack a range of targets. A list that aims to do all things is an all-comers list and should try and cover every eventuality, turning its hand to enemy army. Other armies will aim to attack at specific enemy problems or weaknesses and this generally happens against particular opponents or gamer clubs where the environment forces players to fight certain armies regularly or to improve the odds of winning. The list of things that marines need to kill come in around 7 easy to remember sections: Light Infantry (6+, 5+ armour saves) - Almost any weapon good, rapid firing, template and multi-shot weapons good Medium Infantry (4+, 3+ armour saves) - Plasma weaponry, power weapons, extremely heavy fire Heavy Infantry (2+ armour saves) - Plasma weaponry, power weapons, melta weapons Light Vehicles (AV10, AV11) - Rocket Launchers, Autocannons, plama weaponry Medium Vehicles (AV12) - Melta weaponry, Rocket Launchers, Lascannons Heavy Vehicles (AV 13, AV 14) - Melta weaponry, Lascannons Multi-wound models (Monstrous Creatures usually) Autocannons, Lascannons, Multi-shot weapons These are actually quite easy to cover and not every army will have an instance of every one of these, i've even included some weapons that do well against targets above! Lucky marines have such an armoury we can turn our hand to most things and have several tools for the same job! Almost everything will be working well against light infantry and a range our weapons can handle light vehicles pretty easily too, its mid-heavy targets we have to worry about and they tend to warrant some more specific guns. It's easy to find many of the weapons we need in our army lists and multiple times, because not everyone wants to use some units and often its good to have back up weaponry in case the first one dies! As stated previously your list should also be making sure it accomodates your scoring units and making sure that as many units can take a transport as possible! Once you've covered this, really its time to get playing! You have your army and strategy and you have the tools for the job! So get out and get killing! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2593472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted December 19, 2010 Author Share Posted December 19, 2010 Some more good work there Grim, do you reckon that should be at the beginning or after the unit 101s? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2593654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowstalker Grim Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 I kind of envisage it at the end, after the review about all the units. Its like having looked at the tools to know what they do, they go into the tool box! Though the other section I wrote seems appropriate at the start if you agree? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/216696-codex-space-marines-101-planning/page/3/#findComment-2593662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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