furioso or death company dread?

[chaplain belisarius]

Hi,

 

im thinking of taking a dread in a pod for my 1k blood angel army and am wondering which is better-a furioso or a death company dread?

 

thanks..

[JamesI]

They both have advantages.

 

The DC dread's extra attack is nice, as is ignoring stunned/shaken.

 

But the higher armor on the Furioso is good too.

 

Personally, I prefer furiosos because they don't require taking DC.

[chaplain belisarius]

thanks for that...my army has some dc and is led by a chaplain (guess what ive called him?)

[shatter]

Aloicious A. Flywheel?

 

Professor McMonkey McBean?

 

Bob?

 

In a pod, I'd favour furiousos for the power of the frag launcher/magna/melta combo.

 

In a SR, DC.

[chaplain belisarius]

nope...:ermm:

 

im just taking the basic dread-no upgrades! (not enough points to do so...)

[cptphoenixck]

nope...:ermm:

 

im just taking the basic dread-no upgrades! (not enough points to do so...)

 

*ghostly voice* taake the DC dread *coughs* IMHO dreads with talons are the way to go, but it depends how you want to use them, go for a dc with talons for infantry slashing power, though as said before frag cannons do work well especially when podding them, or a furiso if you want some decent anti-tank power with bloodfists.

[JamesI]

oh, if its a completely unupgraded dread, take the DC for the ignore stunned/shaken.

[Rybnick]

im just taking the basic dread-no upgrades! (not enough points to do so...)

 

If at all possible I'd try and squeeze in a Heavy Flamer on any dread I take, they are just so handy and for 10 points quite a bargain. Although on a DC dread they might be less desirable since you might want to make use of it's fleet rule.

 

If you can only squeze in a bone stock dread then I agree DC dread is probably your best bet.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

oh, if its a completely unupgraded dread, take the DC for the ignore stunned/shaken.

 

I think the Furioso is a better dread hands down for several reasons.

 

First regarding the ignore stunned/shaken... these are not long range shooty dreadnoughts. We want them for their assault capabilities. I know we were talking un-upgraded but If you just put Extra Armour on a Furioso he can basically ignore 'stunned/shaken' for the sake of assaulting anyway.

 

The DC dread requires you to spend points on DC... if you already plan to use DC well then this isn't a big deal but it's still more costly in the end.

 

The DC dread requires you to take your second non-scoring troop choice; in this edition it matters.

 

Biggest negative - the DC dread has rage... he can be led around doing nothing all game.

 

The Furioso is armour 13 which is huge... that means also that Krak grenades can't hurt him. The Furioso is also WS-6 which means he has a better chance to hit more elite units than the DC dread.

 

Furious Charge is utterly wasted on a Dreadnought to begin with... first (even with talons) they wound most units on a 2+ already, and as far as the Initiative bonus ...well the great majority of CC weapons that can hurt a dreadnought are already striking at Init-1 anyway.

 

Fleet is the one true advantage and it is really quite minor. Consider that Both dreads can always run whenever they choose. But only on the turn they can finally assault does the DC get that extra D6 (1-6")... and let's face it, unless your opponent is a newb or you are extremely lucky, most of the time CC dreadnoughts don't get more than one day in the sun per game.

[breng77]

I think it also depends on what else you are using in your army as each dread takes up a different FOC slot. That said, it is much easier to avoid the Furious BC he does not have fleet. If you move and run, and I move and run you may never catch me whereas a model with fleet will. The obvioius downside to the DC dread is that it has to chase units, so if someone parks a land raider near it, if has to move toward it. This is where the ignoring shaken is important as it allows the dread to shoot its melta gun.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

I hear what you are saying, it's possible, but the Furioso can still run each turn... just not on the turn he plans to assault. Add terrain and some unlucky/lucky 'run' dice rolls and there is really no escape. ^_^

[Mezkh]

I think the CC dreads are pretty well balanced.

 

If you have DC, the DC dread is good, cheap, and is kind of a 'free' FOC choice, Elites being more scarce. It's probably the best one to pod in as an attention-grabber.

The Furioso with Talons is more powerful, but really needs a Storm Raven delivery to counteract it's slowness. It doesn't need DC to be fielded.

The Libby dread with Wings and Might of Heroes is the best CC Dread we can field, but pays the points for it. Vulnerablity to being stunned, no meltagun, and the vagaries of psychic powers are small drawbacks.

[tahrikmili]

At 1K points you are best off with an Assault Cannon / CCW regular dreadnought.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I thought the upgrade for Blood Talons is free.

 

G :P

[Midnightmare]

I'm in the process of testing my dread (to see which colour to paint it lol) and so far I'm prefering standard furiouso talons/armour/flamer but as said if you don't have the points DC dread may be the best bet due to 'none shall stay my wrath', just deploy cleverly (Talons are great on the DC as long as you don't end up chasing vehicles lol)

[breng77]

The other advantage to the DC dread is that with talons it has more attacks and thus is more likely to kill things in CC.

[cptphoenixck]

The other advantage to the DC dread is that with talons it has more attacks and thus is more likely to kill things in CC.

"More likely?" I've seen mine gut 15+ orks in a single turn.......

[chaplain belisarius]

thanks guys! i think ill get a dc dread (i run death company in my list anyway..)

 

:P

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

The other advantage to the DC dread is that with talons it has more attacks and thus is more likely to kill things in CC.

"More likely?" I've seen mine gut 15+ orks in a single turn.......

 

The Furioso will do that also. I'd say the above quote isn't always true either... nearly every IC, HQ and character in the game has WS-5 or better and lots of things have WS-6. Lot's of units have WS-5 as well... especially if you play against Nids, or Khorne... or I am facing those darn Incubus a lot now. The Furioso has a better WS, so with Talons, it does make a difference because of the re-roll thing.

[Zealadin]

Against DE for instance AV13 does nothing to a lance shot to the face.

Also both with talons should rip through pretty much anything except TH termies or similar, and FC makes it Str 7 which isn't bad versus most vehicles.

Rage is the main drawback, but playing DC well is a huge challenge.

 

I'd recommend chucking the DC and DC Dread into a SR though.

[breng77]

The Furioso will do that also. I'd say the above quote isn't always true either... nearly every IC, HQ and character in the game has WS-5 or better and lots of things have WS-6. Lot's of units have WS-5 as well... especially if you play against Nids, or Khorne... or I am facing those darn Incubus a lot now. The Furioso has a better WS, so with Talons, it does make a difference because of the re-roll thing.

 

Far more units have WS 4 or below than 5+. Even in Nids far more of their units are WS 4 or less than 5 +. Also most of these units cannot even hurt a dread. Also the only place this helps is against WS 5 where the Furioso hits on 3+ and the DC on 4+. Even then, they perform about the same. Not charging 4 attacks hitting on a 4+ gives you 2 hits. 3 attacks hitting on a 3+ gives you 2 hits. (after the first round the WS 6 helps a little.) On the charge the WS 6 helps some, but not a ton. It amounts to about 2 wounds extra on the charge, against WS 5 opponents. Against any other WS the DC dread is statistically better.

[Korloth Darkwolf]

I have a DC only army presently so only going to use DC dreads.

 

A DC dread with Talons, H. Flamer and Drop Pod does some serious damage on its own against most troops and with the melta could pop most armour.

 

In my last game one took out 40+ Ork boyz, several Nobs and Thraka

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

The Furioso will do that also. I'd say the above quote isn't always true either... nearly every IC, HQ and character in the game has WS-5 or better and lots of things have WS-6. Lot's of units have WS-5 as well... especially if you play against Nids, or Khorne... or I am facing those darn Incubus a lot now. The Furioso has a better WS, so with Talons, it does make a difference because of the re-roll thing.

 

Far more units have WS 4 or below than 5+. Even in Nids far more of their units are WS 4 or less than 5 +. Also most of these units cannot even hurt a dread. Also the only place this helps is against WS 5 where the Furioso hits on 3+ and the DC on 4+. Even then, they perform about the same. Not charging 4 attacks hitting on a 4+ gives you 2 hits. 3 attacks hitting on a 3+ gives you 2 hits. (after the first round the WS 6 helps a little.) On the charge the WS 6 helps some, but not a ton. It amounts to about 2 wounds extra on the charge, against WS 5 opponents. Against any other WS the DC dread is statistically better.

 

Well the point is moot anyway because he already made up his mind... and yeah the fact is most units are going to die against any CC dread regardless... however I'll say this; Your DC dread is actually more likely to get caught fighting throw-away units with crappy WS, and doing a ton of damage in the process, because he has RAGE. If you have a stormraven and you are already fielding the DC then it's worth it in a mathhammer vaccum bubble... otherwise I think the Furioso is overall much more productive. It has been for me anyway... especially at taking down more elite units that I don't want my other units to get into CC with. It also really comes down to this... any crap unit, that has no business fighting a dread, with a grenade can kill the DC dread, but not hurt the Furioso.