Kitting out a predator

[The Neophyte of War]

Hail Brothers,

 

I have just come into possession of a predator tank and I am looking over the different ways that it could be built. I am thinking of using an autocannon with lascannon sponson build. I am usually facing other space marine or chaos space marine players so I figured that it could be used to destroy transports and heavier vehicles. Any suggestions or insight would be greatly appreciated! Thank you.

 

-NoW

[DAwarrior43]

In my honest opinion the combi pred is a great bargain and easily the best pred built out available. I find the dakka pred to not be as effective, but that is based on my local scene, others will have opinions based off of who they face the most but I am in your camp with mostly power armor armies.

[ShinyRhino]

Honestly, I'd magnetize the whole thing, so you can swap armaments as you experiment with them.

 

The buildouts I see most often are Annihilator pattern (tri-lascannon), and Dakkapred (autocannon+heavy bolter). Most internet folks hate the Annihilator because it's expensive, but it's a very effective standoff vehicle that murders transports with ease.

[Meatman]

For reference, a combi-pred is normally an auto cannon turret with lascannon sponsons. Relatively cheap at 120 points and can put out some anti-transport decent fire power.

 

Dakka preds are autocannon and heavy bolter sponsons. Absolutely beats infantry and is super cheap at 85 points.

[KhorneHunter57x]

Honestly, I'd magnetize the whole thing, so you can swap armaments as you experiment with them.

I must second this. It will allow you to easily change the loadout based on the rest of your list.

 

Also, if you magnetise, don't be afraid to experiment with different combinations. I found out that my personal favorite is the Lascannon turret with Heavy Bolter sponsons (and a Hunter-Killer), as it meshes well with the way I play.

 

If your regular opponents are Marines of either flavor, then I would say that the 'Tri-las' (lascannon turret and sponsons) would probably be most effective, as it can punch through vehicles as well as Power and Terminator armor (not to mention what it does to Obliterators!). It does have a somewhat steep price tag, but it is quite effective against both armored vehicles and units with a 2+ or 3+ armor save. If you want a cheaper version with almost as much firepower, then the Combi-Predator is also a great choice.

[Jackelope King]

Let me start out by saying that either Las-Cannon Sponsons or Heavy Bolter Sponsons are vastly better than no sponsons. The level of durability that sponsons add to a Predator is enormous. They become very difficult for an enemy unit to successfully knock out of action, as it is more likely to maintain its threat-profile, especially after only suffering a glancing hit.

 

For the turret, stick with the autocannon. The Turret-mounted twin-linked las-cannon is just obscenely overpriced for a modest increase in accuracy and stopping-power.

 

As to the area of contention, I do honestly think that both the Heavy Bolter and Las-Cannon sponsons have their selling points. Las-cannons make for a reliable anti-transport platform, heavy bolters make for a nasty anti-infantry platform. For me, the rate of fire of the Dakka Predator and its price hit the sweet-spot, especially with all of its shots able to threaten T6 beasties that Nids love to throw down. They erase squads of light infantry, and the volume of wounds they'll put down will threaten even heavy infantry. The durability of the Predator by itself is usually sufficient to ensure that you'll get several turns of firing upon the enemy unless the enemy dedicates some fast melta or you fail to protect your side armor. A Dakka Predator is highly unlikely to erase a squad of Marines in one turn of shooting, but nothing on foot likes taking a volley of S5 and S7 shells to the face.

 

The Las-Cannons tend to lose out for three reasons. My list already has reliable anti-transport capabilities in my Riflemen Dreads. The points savings between three Predators adds up quickly and lets me bulk up my threats in my fast attack slots. And the rate of fire for the "Combi-"Predator just isn't up to snuff for me. In my Biker list in particular, I pack enough fast melta and autocannons to make any flavor of mech cry. Having the additional shells fired each turn to help wipe out exposed infantry is where it's at. I probably would tend to recommend a Dakka Predator more in general, but unless a list is really shy on threats, I probably would never discourage someone from taking a "Combi"-Predator.

[Xeonic]

I prefer the combi destructor(autocannon) with lascannon sponsons for most lists. In my mind though there are three good predator loadouts:

 

Dakka: Autocannon with heavy bolters and optionally a storm bolter. Cheap as chips and throws out a lot of firepower. Downside being that it loses out on a bit of effectiveness vs power armored armies, but shreds anything inferior to that. Reasonable vs very light armor and skimmers due to volume of S5+ fire. It's worth noting that this variant is cheap enough to take even in very small games and at that it's a good source of infantry killing firepower.

 

Combi: Autocannon and lascannon sponsons. The autocannon is a nice enough default weapon for anti-transport and skimmer and it meshes well with the lascannon sponsons in that role. My reasoning on this is why pay 45 pts. for a single lascannon that replaces an autocannnon when you can buy a pair that bolts on for 60 pts?

This is IMO the sweet spot for cost/performance, cheap enough to plonk down 3x in a 1500 pt game without crippling your list otherwise and capable of providing a good source of longrange/high strength fire that's essential in an all comers list.

 

Annihilator: TL-Las and Lascannon sponsons. Same basic role as the combi but you swap 2x S7 shots for a single massively accurate S9 one. Better vs 3+ sv. MCs and heavier armor, but the TL lascannon is a fairly significant points investment. IMO this is the best looking predator variant, which counts for a lot in a game where you play with little model tanks that you build and paint yourself.

[Mysticaria]

Combi: Autocannon and lascannon sponsons....... This is IMO the sweet spot for cost/performance...

Agree. I always feel like I'm getting a value with the lascanon sponsons.

 

-Myst

[templargdt]

I recently built a combipredator and it performed to slightly below my expectations at my last tournament. It did a decent job of destroying transports and taking wounds off MCs. For the cost, I don't think it's a bad choice. It always seemed to miss with 2 of its 4 shots, which irritated me since I wasn't playing IG.

 

I personally wouldn't take AC/HB or tri-las. The very low cost ont he AC/HB combo is nice, but as a codex player I'm not lacking for anti-personnel firepower. As mentioned by others, the TLLC turret is ridiculously overpriced, especially on a non-fast vehicle.

 

I really want to see the next marine codex create the ability to buy machine spirit for tanks like in the Black Templars codex. At a reasonable price.

[Xeonic]

Sounds like a bit of time at the poor end of the statistical curve, at BS4 it's not that implausible to miss half your shots in a game from a given unit every now again. I personally avoid judging performance of a unit based on how well it does in a single game.

I actually had one game where I had a trilas Annihilator miss every time one game with it's turret lascannon, even with twin linked rerolls. The non twin linked LOS challenged sponsons did fine the whole game and accounted for several kills though.

 

The dakka pred really comes into it's element in low bodycount lists where you need to make up for lack of boots on the ground with a nice source of cheap firepower, say a razorback list, or a themed list where 2x5 scouts is your troops. Hell, I'd say it would work well supporting a scout list in general if just because it would be an accurate source of firepower, something most scout lists lack.

 

The Spearhead rules had a machine spirit like clause, not to mention several spearheads designed to make armored vehicles more formidable, and predators seemed to be tailor made to fit the bill in that element. That's strictly opponent's permission though.

I doubt they'll bring machine spirits in general back though as they seem to be moving towards simplification of upgrades. Anyways, they'd just make our cost efficient combi-predators a little less cost effective.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Power of the Machine Spirit as a vehicle upgrade might make Combi-Preds less cost effective, but they'd make Tri-Las Preds worth taking. A single glancing hit would no longer make it an expensive paperweight for a turn, and you would actually be able to get mobile firepower out of it. . . which, after all, is the point and purpose of a main battle tank anyway.

 

In any case, I've never been a Predator user; I don't even own the model. I do enjoy conversations such as these though because I want one, and I want one that's worth taking. These arguments have swung me to the Combi-Pred, for sure. Thanks guys.

[Jackelope King]

The dakka pred really comes into it's element in low bodycount lists where you need to make up for lack of boots on the ground with a nice source of cheap firepower, say a razorback list, or a themed list where 2x5 scouts is your troops. Hell, I'd say it would work well supporting a scout list in general if just because it would be an accurate source of firepower, something most scout lists lack.

Mmm... I'm actually going to disagree just a little, Xeonic. I think the thrust of what you're saying is dead-on, but it just requires a small amount of clarification.

 

The Dakka Pred comes into its own more when you have less ranged anti-infantry firepower, true. It has nice duality against light armor and MCs (though the Combi-predator trades off its anti-infantry effectiveness to be improved against both of these).

 

I'll let you in on a secret about where a Dakka Predator really sings: it's cheap.

 

It lets you throw a lot more models on the table. Two Dakka Predators taken in place of two Combi-Predators gives you enough points for another MM/HF Land Speeder. If you buy three Dakka Predators instead of three Combis, the third Dakka literally pays for itself, with points to spare. And remembers, threats win games. A Dakka Predator's output is always good enough that I'm content with its threat-profile, especially bought in triplicate. Now, when points stop being the object and force organization chart slots become more valuable, such as above 2000 points, I think that this usually stops mattering, and the increased firepower of the Combis becomes far more valuable. I'd buy that argument at 2000. I'd probably even be swayed at 1750, because honestly, the Combi is just almost never a bad buy (until you to 1500 and below, anyway).

 

But man, those extra 105 points can buy you a whole 'nother threat, and that's a pretty sweet deal that's always worth looking at.

[Validar]

@jackelope.

 

This is mostly theoretical, I've only played against predators so far (*pats predator-that'll-be-ready-once-I-figure-out-how-to-magnetize-it besides the keyboard*). I think the dakka pred and the combi pred serves completely different things.

Bringing a dakka pred to the table you're bringing heavy anti-infantry, it'll tear through even groups of marines sponsoring 6 s5 shots and 2 s7 shots - dakka dakka!

However, when you bring the combi pred you're getting something that can crack open all the armored support and the transports.

It isn't doing the same as the dakka pred, it is performing a completely different role on the field. Where the combi predator would shoot at the rhino, the dakka pred wants to shoot the infantry inside. It might aswell have been two different units alltogether, they're not the same when it comes to the role they perform. Therefore you can't compare in price alone.

 

If your list needs something that can crack open transports and take down light mech like dreadnoughts, the combi pred will fit you perfectly. If your army takes down transports well enough, but struggles to deal with the infantry inside, the dakka pred is your choice.

 

While it is true that it is cheaper, it also "acts" as something completely different. The multi-melta dreadnought and lascannn dreadnought is essentially the same unit, but you play them in two very different ways (I'm even sure that there are other (and better) examples).

 

TLDR: Don't get lost in prices alone, look at what your army lacks. Combi pred can help you with armor, dakka pred can help you with infantry. The two patterns for the predator perform radically different roles.

[Ookami_81]

@jackelope.

 

This is mostly theoretical, I've only played against predators so far (*pats predator-that'll-be-ready-once-I-figure-out-how-to-magnetize-it besides the keyboard*). I think the dakka pred and the combi pred serves completely different things.

Bringing a dakka pred to the table you're bringing heavy anti-infantry, it'll tear through even groups of marines sponsoring 6 s5 shots and 2 s7 shots - dakka dakka!

However, when you bring the combi pred you're getting something that can crack open all the armored support and the transports.

It isn't doing the same as the dakka pred, it is performing a completely different role on the field. Where the combi predator would shoot at the rhino, the dakka pred wants to shoot the infantry inside. It might aswell have been two different units alltogether, they're not the same when it comes to the role they perform. Therefore you can't compare in price alone.

 

If your list needs something that can crack open transports and take down light mech like dreadnoughts, the combi pred will fit you perfectly. If your army takes down transports well enough, but struggles to deal with the infantry inside, the dakka pred is your choice.

 

While it is true that it is cheaper, it also "acts" as something completely different. The multi-melta dreadnought and lascannn dreadnought is essentially the same unit, but you play them in two very different ways (I'm even sure that there are other (and better) examples).

 

TLDR: Don't get lost in prices alone, look at what your army lacks. Combi pred can help you with armor, dakka pred can help you with infantry. The two patterns for the predator perform radically different roles.

 

I think J.K. will agree with us. He's talking about cheap dakka preds because his favourite transport opener is the rifleman dread. When you've got 3 riflemen, you don't need 3 combi preds, so you can have 3 dakka preds to destroy infantry (once the riflemen have destroyed the transports), and save some points for other units. It's all about team work.

[chaplain belisarius]

the dakka pred is so cheap....:)

[Jackelope King]

@jackelope.

 

This is mostly theoretical, I've only played against predators so far (*pats predator-that'll-be-ready-once-I-figure-out-how-to-magnetize-it besides the keyboard*). I think the dakka pred and the combi pred serves completely different things.

Bringing a dakka pred to the table you're bringing heavy anti-infantry, it'll tear through even groups of marines sponsoring 6 s5 shots and 2 s7 shots - dakka dakka!

However, when you bring the combi pred you're getting something that can crack open all the armored support and the transports.

It isn't doing the same as the dakka pred, it is performing a completely different role on the field. Where the combi predator would shoot at the rhino, the dakka pred wants to shoot the infantry inside. It might aswell have been two different units alltogether, they're not the same when it comes to the role they perform. Therefore you can't compare in price alone.

 

If your list needs something that can crack open transports and take down light mech like dreadnoughts, the combi pred will fit you perfectly. If your army takes down transports well enough, but struggles to deal with the infantry inside, the dakka pred is your choice.

 

While it is true that it is cheaper, it also "acts" as something completely different. The multi-melta dreadnought and lascannn dreadnought is essentially the same unit, but you play them in two very different ways (I'm even sure that there are other (and better) examples).

 

TLDR: Don't get lost in prices alone, look at what your army lacks. Combi pred can help you with armor, dakka pred can help you with infantry. The two patterns for the predator perform radically different roles.

 

I think J.K. will agree with us. He's talking about cheap dakka preds because his favourite transport opener is the rifleman dread. When you've got 3 riflemen, you don't need 3 combi preds, so you can have 3 dakka preds to destroy infantry (once the riflemen have destroyed the transports), and save some points for other units. It's all about team work.

Pretty much. I'll (almost) never call a Combi-Predator a bad choice. I've had great success with them. I actually still prefer the Dakka Predator for spraying wounds on MCs, but only slightly.

 

However, when placed alongside other anti-light-armor units, a pair of "extra" autocannon shots and plenty of anti-infantry firepower make the Dakka Predator a unit with sufficient duality for a very nice price-tag. And since I'll always err on the side of more threats over fewer, I'll usually opt for the Dakka Predator.

 

That said, unless you're trying to squeeze 2 of them into a 1250 point list, I don't think you're ever making a mistake choosing the Combi-Predator over the Dakka Predator :)

[deepstrike]

been using combi pred for years in my worldeaters army and it always does well.

[Zynk Kaladin]

I gotta say, for cheap metal boxes with guns the dakka pred really performs. I gotta agree with Jackelope King on this one, the combi-pred isn't bad at all. However, in lower point games the dakka can put more threats on the table.

[Xeonic]

I like the dakka pred, it's a nice addition to a smaller list(that is to say, it's cost efficient for how hard it is to remove from the table and what it can do, read; It's cheap), however, a smaller list may benefit from a source of high strength shots more than low/med strength shots, so the small points premium of the combi may well be worth it.

 

In my regular list where I plonk down 30+ marines I have little need for it, what I do need is long-range AT as generally my two first heavy weapons are plasma cannon, which can work at medium range against light armor, if and when they hit, but are hardly super reliable.

 

Dakka and combi predators have different roles despite being the same platform and it's hard to compare the two directly. Trilas vs combi is another thing entirely, and while I do feel the trilas annihilator is the best looking variant, I rarely find myself having the points lying around for the upgrade in my average 1500 pts. "basement" game.

 

The fact of that matter is that if I'm not taking 2+ riflemen or typhoons, I'll inevitably look to the predator for my longrange high strength shots. The dynamics are different than the rest of the choices but the fact remains that it's difficult to remove 2+ AV13 annoyances sitting acrost the table, especially if they're targeting your counters.

[Wildfire]

Honestly, I'd magnetize the whole thing, so you can swap armaments as you experiment with them.

 

^ This.

 

Really, since 5th edition (and especially the BA 'dex) came out, I'm really not liking the pred much. I vastly prefer the Vindicator. The Pred doesn't really do well at much of anything these days, unless your opponent is stupid and sits in front of your guns.

 

With BA, tho, the combipred is awesome. Even there tho, the Vindi is awfully nice!

 

Edited to add: A naked pred (autocannon, no sponsons) is actually a pretty good deal if you have the points left and want a LOS blocker and anti-transport weapon.