p3 and Vallejo paints

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Greetings brothers,

 

I thought to give other brand's paints a try.

I have already used Coat d'arms products [which is just the old GW recipes] and found it adds something that the current GW range cannot. Namely inks.

 

Question time:

Has anyone had experience with these brands?

 

p3 ink. Is it like GW's old ink or like the current wash product?

 

Do these brands have something like foundation paints?

 

Do they take thinning with water very well?

 

Are the thinning mediums compatible with GW paint?

 

Is there an equivalent chart between the brands here on the B&C?

 

Do they have something like tentacle pink?

 

Are the reds, yellows and whites opaque or do they require a few coats to get around translucency?

 

That is all.

 

Yours, in The Emperor, Marshal Wilhelm.

[Highborn Mergula]

My experiance of vallejo is that THEY ARE GREAT!! :cuss

but never use vallejos washes it's bad it doesnt even work it just looks strange.

it doesent even float into the rececesses. ;)

[Pietia]

P3 inks are very close to the old Citadel inks. The P3 red paint covers better than GW ones (at least Skorne Red, which I'm using) - although you still won't get perfect coverage over black basecoat with a single coat of paint.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Thank you, chaps. I think I'll give them a whirl. :)

[Lord_Halrian]

P3's white is really nice , as are there cream colors. As for washes i make my own.

[Tanhausen]

Has anyone had experience with these brands?

 

Vallejo, yes. I'll only answer in that sense.

 

p3 ink. Is it like GW's old ink or like the current wash product?

 

Don't know :P

 

Do these brands have something like foundation paints?

 

Nope, though the Game Colour covers pretty well.

 

Do they take thinning with water very well?

 

Yes, though Model Color or better Model Air are pretty thin by themselves

 

Are the thinning mediums compatible with GW paint?

 

I use water or acrylic thinner (Tamiya), no problem with either GW or Vallejo

 

Is there an equivalent chart between the brands here on the B&C?

 

Not that I know, but at Vallejo's website you'll find it ^_^

 

Do they have something like tentacle pink?

 

Don't know (can't check chart now)

 

Are the reds, yellows and whites opaque or do they require a few coats to get around translucency?

 

You need several layers to go solid colour... just like you would with GW. The main difference is the grain, much smaller in Vallejo.

 

That is all.

 

Yours, in The Emperor, Marshal Wilhelm.

[Brother Aiwass]

Is there an equivalent chart between the brands here on the B&C?

 

The internet, what an awesome place:

 

http://colors.silicon-dragons.com/full_line.php

 

Enjoy ;)

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Is there an equivalent chart between the brands here on the B&C?

 

The internet, what an awesome place:

 

http://colors.silicon-dragons.com/full_line.php

 

Enjoy :D

 

Wow. Very good link. I have not seen such an online thing work so well in comparing to different products. A+

[DV8]

Has anyone had experience with these brands?

 

I use all three (Games Workshop, P3, and Vallejo Game and Model Colors).

 

Vallejo has the best bottle design, the screw cap and eye dropper nozzle means paint won't dry up on you, and it allows you to more accurately prepare your color mixes without too much excess waste. It also means you can get the paint out from the very bottom without having to ruin a brush by stabbing it into the pot.

 

P3's paint pots are reminiscent of the old GW paint pots from 2nd edition. Extended use does tend to put wear and tear on the cap hinge, and in most cases I've snapped most of the hinges on my P3 painting pots already. In some RARE cases the plastic flip tab will also snap or break off, which makes opening the pot a royal pain. Still, this put's P3's pots solidly between Vallejo and GW.

 

Games Workshop has the worst pot design, with awful hinges and just poor assembly that means even when closed, air is sneaking into the pot and drying up your paints like a freakin' ninja. If Games Workshop paints weren't so readily accessible (I order all my Vallejo and P3 paint pots online, so it's a minor inconvenience to have to wait a few weeks and S&H also ups the cost of the paints a bit), I'd use nothing but Vallejo and P3.

 

P3 ink. Is it like GW's old ink or like the current wash product?

 

I've never used their inks, although I tend to stick with Games Workshop's new line of washes.

 

Do these brands have something like foundation paints?

 

As a general rule of thumb, P3's paints cover quite well, some are closer to GW's Foundation Paints, others I would say are a cross between GW's regular paints and GW's Foundation paints. Vallejo is mostly 50/50, with some of them similar to GW's regular paints. A large part of this is because Vallejo's paints are watered down much more than GW's so that they can be used for airbrushes. But I've found that the pigment to medium ratio is higher than GW's, hence more dilution, but stronger color application.

 

Do they take thinning with water very well?

 

Yup.

 

Are the thinning mediums compatible with GW paint?

 

Yes. I've mixed and blended colors across all three ranges with no problems at all.

 

Is there an equivalent chart between the brands here on the B&C?

Do they have something like tentacle pink?

 

Someone has posted a link above.

 

Are the reds, yellows and whites opaque or do they require a few coats to get around translucency?

 

This will depend heavily on your painting technique (how much are you diluting? or are you painting straight out of the bottle?) as well as what you're painting on (lighter colors take less applications on lighter basecoats, larger surfaces also require more basecoats than smaller detail areas, etc. In general though, I can safely say P3 and Vallejo paints cover FAR better than GW paints, although you still won't get that solid transparent color with one pass (unless you just slop on paint and chunk up the model).

 

 

DV8

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Thank you DV8 :mellow:

 

How about metallics ~ who has the best there?

[cathar the great]

I can only add to what has been said: P3 are pretty cool and cover a little better than most of GW paints. I'm currently switching from GW to P3 and I like them a lot.

 

I have one bottle of Vallejo Game Color. The experience I made with this is that you really need to shake it a lot before use. I mean really shake the frig out of that bottle for a minute or so...

 

You didn't ask, but I also got a bottle of Rackham color. The color itself is nice, on par with P3, but I can't really work with the bottle design. Maybe you are luckier ^^

 

 

On metallics:

I only ever worked with GW's metallics but two years ago I stopped metallics altogether because I didn't like the look. I got a bottle of gold from P3 for my girlfriend. Apart from the fact that it also needs a bit of shaking before use, I can't see a difference between it and GW's gold.

[Lord_Halrian]

Thank you DV8 :blush:

 

How about metallics ~ who has the best there?

 

 

GW's metallics aren't bad, I don't like there golds though, they seem cruddy to me, they don't go over well. Still looking for a decent goldish metallic paint that works well.

[Tanhausen]

Vallejo has NEAT metallics.

 

BE WARNED! The Air Color range is EXTREMELY reflective (due to a very very very [n+1] very small grain), which means you should only use it to highlight at the end and just a bit. For example, with the silver, I only use it for the final "guns" highlight.

[Highborn Mergula]

Ooh and i forgot.

vallejo have foundation paints under the name "Heavy opaque" or something like that.

[Brother Valerius]

I know everyone else disagrees, but I have been very unhappy with Vallejo paint. The paint has all been of poor quality, some (such as my DA green equivalent) was completely watery and didn't have much color; some (read: everything else) is not mixed well and does not stay mixed when I mix it. Most of my Vallejo colors are separated into a lighter shade and a darker shade, and no matter how vigorously I mix the paint together, it will separate a few minutes later.

 

I've given up on Vallejo, I consider them to have a far inferior product to GW (albeit the dropper bottles are amazing for measuring out paint for mixing). Haven't tried P3, so I can't speak to them.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I know everyone else disagrees, but I have been very unhappy with Vallejo paint. The paint has all been of poor quality, some (such as my DA green equivalent) was completely watery and didn't have much color; some (read: everything else) is not mixed well and does not stay mixed when I mix it. Most of my Vallejo colors are separated into a lighter shade and a darker shade, and no matter how vigorously I mix the paint together, it will separate a few minutes later.

 

I've given up on Vallejo, I consider them to have a far inferior product to GW (albeit the dropper bottles are amazing for measuring out paint for mixing). Haven't tried P3, so I can't speak to them.

 

That is very interesting. I have already ordered the paints and so will get first hand experience for myself but my assumption is that you have bought a bad batch somehow, or it has spoilt after production. I think that because others have not voiced the same concerns that you have.

 

Have you bought them recently? I would be taking them back to the retailer and asking for a full refund. If they don't give you that, then I'd contact Vallejo and tell them what has happened and that the store is not playing ball.

 

Either way, I'll let you all know how it goes once they arrive.

 

Merry Christmas, ho ho ho.

[Validar]

P3's white is really nice , as are there cream colors.

 

I second this. After nights of tears with bleached bone I found the Light in P3's jacked bone - essentially same colour, though the P3 is a lot better to work with in all aspects, in my oppinion

[hmk17]

For metallics, best I have found comes from the Vallejo Model Air.

 

Its designed for airbrush so the pigment is smaller than normal. Gives a nice finish with no glitter after-effect.

[Red Fury]

Hey Marshal. I've used Vallejo for a while now and definitely recommend them over both GW and Reaper paints, I haven't used but a few pots of P3 so I can't tell you anything about them.

 

Vallejo sells both Inks and Washes. I haven't used the new washes yet as I have been very happy with the new GW washes and haven't gone looking for anything different. I've used wonder wash (still do) didi's magic ink, old GW inks, reaper ink and Vallejo inks. Inks are obviously different than washes but the new GW washes are great and I can't make one as good myself. I think the Vallejo washes are supposed to be direct copies of the GW, but like I said I haven't tried it to find out.

 

Vallejo does have a foundation paint equivalent called the extra opaque line.

 

Vallejo thins very well with just water. I use a dropper bottle with a 10:1 mix of water and flow aid. I used to use reapers thinner, it is unnecessary.

 

Tentacle pink = squid pink. I love how the names of game color are close enough to figure out the GW version. Here is the real master list: http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/pdf_web/CC072-rev07.pdf

 

They do require a couple of coats to cover well, especially when thinned. It is the nature of acrylic paints.

 

Some people complain about the separating in their Vallejo paints. I see it all the time too, but don't let it bother me one bit. To avoid a long text of pigments vs mediums discussion, just ignore it and you will have great results.

 

Vallejo's page: http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/gb/game-color-gb.html

[Mazer Rackham]

I think DV8 covered all the points I could make, so I'll just back him up with:

 

Vallejo paints are excellent, never had a problem - the metallics are superb.

 

P3 are also great. Liquid pigment means they cover well. Menoth White Base, Menoth White Highlight give a lovely warm analogue to GW's bleached bone. Jacked bone as mentioned above is also great. P3 Blighted Gold is a delicious colour.

 

Simply put, Vallejo are cheaper than GW, there's more in the bottle and it's a better design.

 

P3 come a very close second. I love both ranges. The only GW product I use now are the washes. I wish I had made the switch sooner.

 

MR.

[TemplarCoyote]

I gave up on Vallejo awhile back after three bad, watery pots in a row. I know a lot of people swear by them but my bad experiences color my perception!

 

I use almost exclusivly P3, though their gold metalics are terrible (i hear they are redoing the formula as it never mixed properly for any length of time) I also use their middle tint silver because it's in between boltgun and chainmail so it shades better with the badbab black wash. Other than P3's great coat grey I think I like GW's grey's better was well...

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Well, just a little update.

 

My brother and I have used the Thinner Medium and like it. It has gotten old paints back into use.

 

I guess the thing is, how much in TM are you going to use to fix a dried out paint. I guess there comes a point where it is best to just by a fresh paint.

 

But nice if you have something starting to turn and so can rescue it.

 

* I actually drop in some clean water into my paints whenever I use them [i am talking about the GW ones] to keep them moist and offset evaporation from having the lid off for a time [i don't always use a wet palette] and whatever drying out that comes from just having a bad lid or me not pushing them down properly.

 

+++

 

We also used the Game Ink Negro Black. It is much like Badab Black, but a little glossier. So I wouldn't put it on the must haves list, what with GW paints being so widely available.

 

^_^

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Hello hello,

 

I have just used some P3 Morrow White. Simply delightful. It is smoother to paint and is more opaque than Skull White.

 

For anyone painting white armies or painting white from black :D I do recommend trying it.

 

I am also going to use Khador Red Base and Khardic Flesh at the recommendation of Darkseer, of the Space Wolf and Tau of War blogs.

 

You get 18mL of P3 paint compared to 12mL of GW paint for less dollars than the GW paints....

 

Just saying :)

[Tanhausen]

Somebody fell in love :)

[Forté]

Can only say that after now trying Valjeo, I doubt I'll be going back to gw apart from washes. Got to admit I nearly had an accident when I saw the range of colours. Gun metal grey will have to be bought next for me. Just got to remember to shake the hell out of it before use.

 

Oh, and they have pink but also a fluorescent range!