confused about blood champion

[Brother Weasel]

I would rule ont he side of caution and do it the way it helps you the least, IE till other wise stated, it's replaced.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

This argument again... heh.

 

G :sweat:

[Brother Weasel]

This argument again... heh.

 

G

 

once every few weeks:)

[Brother Theophantus]

Really it comes down to if you're playing with decent people who want to have fun, in which case you can upgrade him, or against someone just out to win, in which case you can't. After all it seems odd that normal Honour Guard can take storm shield where the more prestigious champion cannot. Also whats the point in having a combat shield if you don't have a bolt pistol for the free hand it gives you?

 

On a related note, if you're going to be that anal about the rules what about upgrading a librarian to epistolary? There are no stats given for the model type epistolary or any equipment. Does that mean your libby just becomes some kind of amorphous blob? Or even a furioso libby for that matter. There is nothing in the dex that explicitly states they have the same stats as the origional model whereas sergeants are listed in both termie and vet squads even though they have the same stats as the other models.

[Quixus]

Really it comes down to if you're playing with decent people who want to have fun, in which case you can upgrade him, or against someone just out to win, in which case you can't.

I wouldn't tie it to the attitude of the opposing player.

After all it seems odd that normal Honour Guard can take storm shield where the more prestigious champion cannot.

Just like the Sanguinary Guard which is supposed to be more prestigious than Vanguard Veterans, but only get Glaives instead of superior lightning claws. They can't get Thunderhammers or Storm shields either.

[Brother Weasel]

Really it comes down to if you're playing with decent people who want to have fun, in which case you can upgrade him, or against someone just out to win, in which case you can't.

I wouldn't tie it to the attitude of the opposing player.

 

it's your army that is in question, not the other players, if there is a question it's either a dice roll or if YOU are the cool one you take the lesser version...

[JamesI]

Really it comes down to if you're playing with decent people who want to have fun, in which case you can upgrade him, or against someone just out to win, in which case you can't. After all it seems odd that normal Honour Guard can take storm shield where the more prestigious champion cannot. Also whats the point in having a combat shield if you don't have a bolt pistol for the free hand it gives you?

 

On a related note, if you're going to be that anal about the rules what about upgrading a librarian to epistolary? There are no stats given for the model type epistolary or any equipment. Does that mean your libby just becomes some kind of amorphous blob? Or even a furioso libby for that matter. There is nothing in the dex that explicitly states they have the same stats as the origional model whereas sergeants are listed in both termie and vet squads even though they have the same stats as the other models.

Episoltary is not a new type, so that argument is irrelevant. If for some reason they did include an Episotary statline, then an epistoary could not take librarian upgrades.

 

In termie and vet squads it is important to list the sergeant as their are options only the sergeant can take (a glaive in Vanguard or power weapons in sternguard) and options the sergeant can not take (assault cannons in terminator squads as an example)

 

I guess I'm not a decent person to play as I expect opponents to make legal lists. Now, I've never said a champion doesn't have a bolt pistol. He just can't buy upgrades. If you want a fluff reason its the same reason a chaplain can't replace his crozius or Sanguinar Guard can't replace their glaives, traditional weapons for particular duties.

[fivepointedstar]

So for a Honor Guard there "position" weapon is a bolt pistol then thats like the sacred armament for all marines but mostly assualt ones.

 

In fact my argument still stands as "once an honor guard in the unit, stays an honor guard in the unit" and unit equals the opotunities to add, and or upgrade to blood champ. ie the honor guard get single out, and 'chosen' as a company champ then given a combat shield, and power weapon.. but if he already had a infernus pistol why would a veteran downgrade his wargear. hum I think not. the whole upgrade to blood champ for 20 points is to bump his WS skill +1 and to auto give him a shield, and power weapon. So with that in mind a honor guard/ BC can get any swap out any weaponery from the ones given as HG of any given as BC. ie if you equip you BC with a combat shield, and hand flamer, and a thunder hammer well that awesome pay the points fella and we will see what happens. -end

[JamesI]

We've had this discussion several times, and in the end its the same few people on each side. I'm going to close this and open a thread in the OR about it. Perhaps with a few more people involved, a solution can be found that satisfies everyone.