How to use Karamazov

[River Black]

About a year ago I purchased Inquisitor Karamazov because I really wanted to paint him up. Since then I have yet to actually use the model in a game. I really dont want this model to collect dust any longer so im kind of determined to use him in a list. I have played around with a few ideas but in general I havent really created anything that has really clicked. SO now Im turning to the you fellow inquisitor players for assistance. So if you had to make a list with the walking chair what would the list look like. How would you make the best out of his abilities. Also am I completely mad for even attempting to include use him and should I just return to a regular Inq Lord.

[calypso2ts]

I think Karamazov fits best in a combined arms force with IG. Ideally, an infantry gunline where he provides Fearless to a bubble like an Avatar and a counter assault unit. I have been having similar thoughts though, I love the model for Karamazov but I have only fielded him a few times and he was uninspiring...

 

Edit: Actually I really like the idea of using him with Al'rahem to power an outflanking unit with his Mandate as well..+1 attack across a blob could be brutal!

[Gentlemanloser]

As the only Imperial MC, I love Karamazov.

 

I dislike the old restriciton of having to use a 1500+ point WH army to be able to use him though. I'd love to ally him into a DH force.

 

As for using him, doesn't he just provide a reroll to moral and not a Fearless bubble?

 

(As an aside, he's missing +1WS from his profile he should have for having a 'warrior' - gun servitor - retinue member)

 

Currently, I'm planning on running a DH list, with actually using the WH dex as the parent list, just to unlock Karamazov. :thanks:

 

Something like;

HQ: Karamzov

HQ: GKBC, 4 x GKT

 

Troop: 10 x WH IST

Troop: 10 x WH IST

Troop: Justicar, 9 x PAGK

Troop: Justicar, 9 x PAGK

Troop: SM Scout Squad, 5 x Camo, Snipers

Troop: SM Scout Squad, 5 x Camo, Snipers

 

Elite: GKBC, 4 x GKT

 

Heavy: SM Dread, Drop Pod

 

As always, this lacks a lot of anti-tank, but at least I'll have Karamazov for that. :P The IST would flank him and advance with him. The Scouts would sit on home objectives and provide some long range support, the PAGK would be midfield control (Trying to eak the most out of Shouding and SB Range, and being a potent counter CC force) and the GKT would teleport in to mop up where needed.

[calypso2ts]

For some reason I was fixated on the idea that he provided a fearless bubble, must have been his iron will ability. That makes him a lot worse for a gunline style use than I thougth he would be....

 

Good catch on the WS.

[andrewm9]

He's a great model with miserable rules for 5th edition. For a 200+ point monstrous creature he's not especially tough or strong. In fact he is quite average for a Monstorus creature. He only has 1 gun so he can't take advantage of that particular monstrous creature rule and doesn't have a very high number of attacks so he's not particularly effective in melee either. At leasyt he has good saves. You might crush a vehicle or two if you are lucky. I guess he can provide some slow moving cover to one of your tanks.

 

All of that said I can't wait to finish pinning him together so I can paint him. He's goign to look awesome when he's painted I think.

[sgt campbell]

i took karamazov to the throne of skulls gt this year and he worked out really well for me, he took a lot of punishment and his bs5 twin-linked meltagun worked a treat killing dreads, rhinos,vindicators and immobilised a monalith but just took to long to walk his way to within the 12" needed to make the melta work properly. a nice trick i used with him was to basicaly use him as cover hiding rhinos behind him. but i always forgot to use inquisitorial mandate allowing +1 attacks, which would work a treat combined with some charging celestians.

[melvinmcsnatch]

I've used Karamazov in a couple games and I didn't hate him. He beats up little people and shoots light armor and is moderately durable, but is susceptible to Instant Death.

 

I'd still rather go with Retributors for the points.

[neonfunk]

Just a quick Hi and intro to everyone here... Just getting myself reacquainted with 40K after a 10 year hiatus, and in particular, the new GK...

 

Bought the new dex recently, and was very intrigued by this new (well, not new, but "revised") character - esp his "By any means necessary" special rule, potentially opening up the possibility of using some OSR blast shenanigans on friendly TDA models (or any other suitable situation/model etc...).

 

So obviously, I'd like to ask a few questions, and gain perhaps ask for some opinions from the more knowledgeable heads on this forum, in relation to this character, and any possible "combos" you can use him with... (one "off the top of my head" example would be dropping a lance blast on draigo whilst he (draigo) is locked in CC with some juicy elites - with his SS and EW keeping him relatively unscathed)

 

Hence,

Question no. 1) is this approach quite a viable tactic?

2) What are the thoughts of OSR's in general - would like to hear from ppl who have playtested with them

3) Also, can anyone please enlighten me on whether or not OSR's in need LOS to work, or can u basically hide karamazov at the back of the board/behind terrain and let fly unhindered? (if this somewhat cheesy tactic is illegal, then it wouldnt be a deal breaker, since u can easily attach him to a unit for protection and footslog him...... which kinda lingers to another point....

4) Karamazov viable in CC? i think very much so, with the fancy nades to boot! attached to an appropriate unit of course .... please correct me if im wrong, ANY feedback much appreciated!!

 

NB Apologies in advance if I have done the wrong thing, as I wasn't sure if I needed to started a new threadwhich i shall do if i dont get sufficient replies! hehe), or bump this relatively old one ... i did do a search, but this was the only karamazov related thread i could find)

 

 

-Cheers,

Neonfunk

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Combine him with Coteaz, and use Crusaders as your target models.

[Something Wycked]

1) is this approach quite a viable tactic?

2) What are the thoughts of OSR's in general - would like to hear from ppl who have playtested with them

3) Also, can anyone please enlighten me on whether or not OSR's in need LOS to work, or can u basically hide karamazov at the back of the board/behind terrain and let fly unhindered? (if this somewhat cheesy tactic is illegal, then it wouldnt be a deal breaker, since u can easily attach him to a unit for protection and footslog him...... which kinda lingers to another point....

4) Karamazov viable in CC? i think very much so, with the fancy nades to boot! attached to an appropriate unit of course .... please correct me if im wrong, ANY feedback much appreciated!!

1) I wouldn't use him with Draigo; you'd be dropping almost 500 points just on 2 HQ models. And while Draigo does have EW and a SS, the Lance is only a small blast template so you'd only be getting a couple models with it. A better idea would be to use Barrage Bomb on Terminators, or even Paladins with an Apothecary- 2+ with FnP.

2) OSR's are an inconsistent weapon- they always scatter the full distance rolled. RAW monkeys won't let you use Servo Skulls to reduce the scatter. Also, the model carrying it can't move, so its generally not a good idea to put it on a Grand Master or Captain who will typically want to be mobile. However, when they hit, they're typically devastating. The problem is taking your chances with a 50 point piece of wargear that will dictate how the model fights for the whole game.

3) OSR does need LoS to work. The range is unlimited, but it is used like a weapon fired by the model with a couple exceptions- their Ballistic Skill does not reduce the scatter and they can't have moved in the movement phase, though they can later assault. What you can do, though, is attach the character with OSR to a Purgation Squad and have them use Astral Aim to eliminate the need for LoS- you'll just be granting a 4+ cover save to the models hit.

4) Viable in CC? Maybe. You certainly don't want to send him against things like Hammernators, because they'll stomp him into the ground. Against dedicated assault troops a tier or two below Hammernators he should do alright.

[Angelis Mortis]

Nice threadomancy.

[neonfunk]

@ Something Wicked: Your opinions are greatly appreciated, so thank you...

 

1) I wouldn't use him with Draigo; you'd be dropping almost 500 points just on 2 HQ models. And while Draigo does have EW and a SS, the Lance is only a small blast template so you'd only be getting a couple models with it. A better idea would be to use Barrage Bomb on Terminators, or even Paladins with an Apothecary- 2+ with FnP.

2) OSR's are an inconsistent weapon- they always scatter the full distance rolled. RAW monkeys won't let you use Servo Skulls to reduce the scatter. Also, the model carrying it can't move, so its generally not a good idea to put it on a Grand Master or Captain who will typically want to be mobile. However, when they hit, they're typically devastating. The problem is taking your chances with a 50 point piece of wargear that will dictate how the model fights for the whole game.

3) OSR does need LoS to work. The range is unlimited, but it is used like a weapon fired by the model with a couple exceptions- their Ballistic Skill does not reduce the scatter and they can't have moved in the movement phase, though they can later assault. What you can do, though, is attach the character with OSR to a Purgation Squad and have them use Astral Aim to eliminate the need for LoS- you'll just be granting a 4+ cover save to the models hit.

4) Viable in CC? Maybe. You certainly don't want to send him against things like Hammernators, because they'll stomp him into the ground. Against dedicated assault troops a tier or two below Hammernators he should do alright.

 

1) Totally get what you're saying... But would it be viable/competetive to build an army around this kind of niche? Or kind of too situational/risky? I'm not too in favour of highly situational/luck reliance. I would like to have as little unpredictable factors as possible when deciding on what style i like to play.

 

2)I would never put OSR on a GM/Cap/techie, as I pointed out in the above, having inconsistecy would be ultimately antithecal to my style. That's not to say of course, that OSR is not good, and should never be done, just that i personally would not do so.

 

3) yeah, i was hoping that I could be wrong, its just that in the dex entry, the "BARRAGE bomb" is a ordnance d3 large blast.... so i was hoping that the OSR would not require LOS, since "barage ordnance" does NOT require LOS according to BRB? sigh... Thanks for the astral aim tip though (which is relatively good against MEQ, as they would go for 3+ armour save anyway instead of unmodifiable 4+ cover) ! What about just leaving karamazov with a shooty henchman warband aka pseudo devestator squad? yay or nay?...

 

also, in this instance, could u still purchase an inquisitorial dedicated chimera for the henchman squads? I know that the answer is of course yes, BUT Since I already know that once the henchies board the vehicle, karamazov no longer becomes a part of the unit. Still, would it be possible to purchase a vacant dedicated transport in this instance? (i plan to deploy karamazov and his henchie as a unit, but then break off and run the henchies in it, drop off the cargo, and then summon back the vehicle for TDAs to now use it). Is this allowable and/or viable?

 

4) In terms of CC, I could definately run him with a bunch of TDAs, or even purifiers, as his fancy nades and dread reputation rule would be nice buff for the squad. However, this would severly hamper the mobility of the squad. Or rather, the mobility of the squad would hamper karamazov's primary role i.e. to let fly with those OSRs. hmm.... maybe turtle karamazov at the back with his henchies and play devestator squad, then summon when the time is right, getting a DCA/CC kitted out henchie warband to engage any elite unites, and consolidate the midfield hammer. hmmm.... getting interesting...

 

,any feedbank from ANYONE is greatly appreciated. Thank you so much, please tolerate my noobish questions, as there have been 2-3 edition changes since i last played! thanks!

[neonfunk]

hi all,

 

just thought i'd continue with a post on this thread, as opposed to create an entirely new one, and since my new question kinda ties in with the discussion topic.

 

I've been tinkering with the idea of using Karamazov OR a techmarine with conversion beamer and/or OSR, TOGETHER with a purgation squad to take advantage of astral aim....

specifically, I'm considering running a 10-man Purgator squad, combat squadded.... The squad with the Justicar (and with NO special weps upgrades) will stay with Karamazov/Techie in my deployment zone, because his LD 9 is needed to cast astral aim with less risk of perils. The other 5 man combat squad gets 2 x incenators (free!!), mounted in a rhino, who's function will be to zoom around and thin out advancing forces... So basically, 2 questions i'd like to ask.... (and i'd really appreciate the assistance!):

 

1) Does an "astral aim OSR/Conversion Beamer" confer the unmodfiable cover save (+4) to the target, against the OSR/Conversion Beamer? What abour a "normal" OSR/conversion beamer shot? We are of course, assuming the target is actually OUT IN THE OPEN, and NOT in cover... (seems ridiculous to me if the answer is yes, because how can you get a "cover save" (when you're in the open)

 

2)Has anyone adopted a similar tactic(s)? (I'm, referring to BOTH the OSR/Conversion Beamer-Astral Aim combo, AND the Purgators w/ incinerator mounted in rhino tactic) Please share your experience and insight!

 

Thanks in advance!!!

[Whitefireinferno]

If using Astral aim you give them a coversave UNLESS what your firing ignores coversaves it maters not if they are in the open if you use it you just gave them all the equivilant of a Thousand sons save.

[neonfunk]

If using Astral aim you give them a coversave UNLESS what your firing ignores coversaves it maters not if they are in the open if you use it you just gave them all the equivilant of a Thousand sons save.

 

So the question to my answer comes down to......

 

* Does the OSR/conversion beamer (being blast template weapons) ignores cover saves?

 

I apologise in advance for asking a noob question, but I have gone over the BRB and codex, and couldnt find anything in relation to the matter......

Hence, that would therefore render my question to be obsolete,

 

BUT

 

if you consider the weapon entry for the incinerator in the codex, NO WHERE does it mention that incinerators ignore cover..... But it is however, assumed and acknowledged that this weapon does so.....? so does this line of logic (if you can really call it that) extend to the OSR/conversion beamers?

 

Appreciate any input on the matter!

[Chengar Qordath]

Incinerators ignore cover because they're template weapons, and the BRB states that all template weapons ignore cover.

[nurglez]

all flamer template weapons ignore cover saves, but normal blast and ordinance don't, unless specified.