Devastators as troops

[shabbadoo]

What about that short little snippet in the 3rd edition Codex that basically stated that the reason the Dark Angels had access to a Plasma Cannon in their Tactical Squads was due to the fact that they are an old and venerable Chapter?

What about this little quote from the second of the White Dwarf updates?

*Dark Angels Tactical Squad. Ignore the reference to plasma cannons for Dark Angels. All Tactical Squads now have this option in Codex: Space Marines.

Rather poignant I would say. This is a bit more telling a point as it renders the earlier snippet all but meaningless. Every single vanilla chapter may have plasma cannons in their Tactical Squads, and without the need for saying that they were all extra special plasma lovers/favored of the Emperor/first in the supply line/whatever. I guess the other chapters must have all simultaneously gotten curious and opened up all of those crates labeled "Victory Over Chaos! Party Supplies", and instead found caches of plasma weaponry. :huh: Plasma cannons in Tactical Squads still remains to this day, but now ALL chapters have access to them- even Blood Angels who didn't have it before. Yes, the retconn has a way of blowing holes in statements that came before. Plasma is rare for most Imperial forces, but not that rare for the elite forces the of the Imperium, the Space Marines.

[Viray]

What about that short little snippet in the 3rd edition Codex that basically stated that the reason the Dark Angels had access to a Plasma Cannon in their Tactical Squads was due to the fact that they are an old and venerable Chapter?

What about this little quote from the second of the White Dwarf updates?

*Dark Angels Tactical Squad. Ignore the reference to plasma cannons for Dark Angels. All Tactical Squads now have this option in Codex: Space Marines.

Rather poignant I would say. This is a bit more telling a point as it renders the earlier snippet all but meaningless. Every single vanilla chapter may have plasma cannons in their Tactical Squads, and without the need for saying that they were all extra special plasma lovers/favored of the Emperor/first in the supply line/whatever. I guess the other chapters must have all simultaneously gotten curious and opened up all of those crates labeled "Victory Over Chaos! Party Supplies", and instead found caches of plasma weaponry. ;) Plasma cannons in Tactical Squads still remains to this day, but now ALL chapters have access to them- even Blood Angels who didn't have it before. Yes, the retconn has a way of blowing holes in statements that came before. Plasma is rare for most Imperial forces, but not that rare for the elite forces the of the Imperium, the Space Marines.

Ah, the amazing powers of retcon. :P

 

Well, I suppose one could argue game and fluff segregation. An example would be our current Codex. In game terms, our Codex shows its age when compared to the other, more recent Codicii. Gamesworkshop explains this by saying our Chapter forges its own equipment, or something to that effect, and that is why all of our gear works much differently. As can be seen, this is a quick and effective way for the company to handwave changes to the system without having to work for it. However, I am willing to bet that our Codex's next incarnation will include all the new goodies the current Astartes Codicii have and then some. How will Gamesworkshop explain this? Another poorly reasoned handwave that is not mentioned in printed fluff but through some kind of FAQ or some such to keep the players happy (relatively speaking, of course).

 

Also, just because other Chapters now have access to Plasma Cannons in their Tactical Squads does not mean that the Dark Angels' status as super special awesome Marines has changed; perhaps the rarity of Plasma has changed, or even the organizational structure of Codex adherent Chapters? The statement concerning the Dark Angels' venerability has not been retracted, at least I am assuming, only that statement that that venerability allowed them access to awesome, shooty, Plasma death in Tactical Squads.

 

Reason for edit: Clarity

[HiveFleetEzekial]

Yeah.. 'retcon'. You can call it that if you want. 'What about it..?' It was a bunch of suger coated BS they spoon fed us (And so many new people popped an IV for it) for taking away the actual 'character' our army had in 2E!

 

 

As for the Emperor leading the Dark Angels while they were 'The First Legion'? I seem to remember this very thing being covered in Descent of Angels -not nearly as bad a book as many would love to keep labeling it as- durring the point at which The Emperor, with First Legion (A.K.A. his original Angels of Death) in tow, ready to greet Jonson.

[shabbadoo]

Well, you can pick and choose from what there is. So,me o9f it gels with the overall history of the rules across game editions, while other bits are aberrations(like the plasma bit for Tac Squads). The plasma bit put in solely to prop up a squad option which everyone had in 2E, all but DA lost with 3E, and then everyone got back still later in the very same game edition. Yes, the plasma cannon was not an option for everyone for all of about 1/2 of a game edition. Not exactly a stellar point for bolstering the premise that DA have lots of stuff that other don't have. It is merely a fluff point. DA may have older(i.e. better quality tech) stuff, but others have that stuff too; it is just newer. As to the quality, there is not enough variance for it to be represented in the rules.

 

As to the OP, DA are simply not known for fielding Devastators in more than the usual Codex Astartes amounts, and that sort of feature would be better suited to other chapters anyways.

[Isiah]

As to the OP, DA are simply not known for fielding Devastators in more than the usual Codex Astartes amounts, and that sort of feature would be better suited to other chapters anyways.

 

What about the 9th (Devastator) Company? The OPs suggestion would mean they could be fielded en masse... no one's saying we have more devs – just that we might be able to take what we do have all at once ;) .

 

Bottom line: things change and it's all down to imagination (sometimes good, sometimes not) rather than an over-adherence to established fluff, otherwise the game would stagnate – and I'd still be using Codex Angels of Death :wallbash:.

 

Cheers

I

[shabbadoo]

Much of what changes is simply done for the sake of change, and just to make it different from something else. And we can't forget to mention that many of the changes are put in simply to sell new/more models of a certain type. If Devastator boxed set sales are down, DA(or somebody else) could get something along these lines. :lol:

 

Linking the Master of the Forge to being able to take one Heavy Support choice as a Troops choice would work well enough(as you suggested). If present in an army, he can draw on extra gear/vehicles, though it would make sense for any chapter with a Master of the Forge or equivalent to be able to do this.

[Hemal]

In fact many rules changes are driven entirely by the new cool model the designers want to promote. They ge the rules developers to uberize these units as then the model both sells well and makes them look good as well.

 

Maybe that's a cynical view buts it a view from insiders.