IA: Emperor's Wraiths

[Corvi Sanguine]

On the starchart on page 30 of the new 5th Edition Space Marine Codex, there is a Chapter called the Celestial Guard and their homeworld is Erenon.

 

Well, on behalf of Bolter and Chainsword, I call dibs on this Chapter and want your help to develop the fluff.

 

Here is their blank entry in the Lexicanium: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Celestial_Guard (I want to change this)

 

I thought we'd do the history as such: -

 

The Celestial Guard are a new chapter founded in the 40th Millenium. The Emperor decreed that due to the mutation to some of the original Primarchs gene seed, that a handful of his veteran Adeptus Custodes be used to create new Space Marines and leave his service on Terra and found new Space Marine Chapters, thus fulfilling the role of the Primarchs themselves. The Celestial Guard are one such chapter.

 

Celestial Guard Chapter Master Benjamin Thraxus and his Ultramarines advisors started recruitment and fortification on the world of Erenon near Nocturne, home of the Salamanders.

 

The Celestial Guard wear the Imperial Purple with Gold Chest Eagle and shoulder plate rims and bleached bone shoulder pauldrons. They adhere closely to the Codex Astartes as was laid out by Roboute Guilliman, as is blessed by the God Emperor. The only Company markings the chapter show are the company colours on the right knee and in the case of the Veteran 1st Company, a white helm.

 

The Golden rimmed shoulder plates and golden chest eagle are marks of honour from the Emperor himself to show genetic relation to the Adeptus Custodes.

 

Ok, what do you think?

 

What can you add to this?

 

Cheers

[Corvi Sanguine]

They are of the latest Twenty Sixth Founding of Adeptus Astartes

[Marshal Rohr]

This should be in the Liber.

 

 

 

First things first: get rid of the Custodes part. Never would happen. Its too 'my Chapter is better than everyone else'. Your chapter is just like the other 999, aka they come from the other 999 chapters, no outside genetic material would be used.

 

Next: Remove any name drops to a first founding in your chapter. The 26th Founding is SO far down the food chain the First 9 are going to be near mythical institutions to them.

 

Lastly: The Color Scheme is nice, but instead of using the Codex colors you should use the heraldic pattern (Second company is a vertical bar, Third Company is a diagonal bar, etc), and have the bar be bone colored like the shoulder pads.

[Brother Tyler]

Just to note - no one gets to "call dibs" on any Chapters, official or otherwise. It's certainly okay to develop an official or homegrown Chapter, but anyone else is free to do their own thing with the same Chapter if they want. For example, I'm currently working on a DIY Chapter, the "Vengeance Hawks". If any other member wanted to create their own DIY Chapter named the Vengeance Hawks, they would be perfectly entitled to do so and I wouldn't have any grounds to complain. The same holds true for any other members' Chapters such as Commissar Molotov's Castigators, Tiger Rajah's Fighting Tigers of Veda, etc. It's not cool to plagiarize someone else's work and call it your own, but there is no ownership on Chapters.

 

By all means, keep on doing what you're doing. Just don't get any illusions about "ownership". :whistling:

[Heru]

Just to note - no one gets to "call dibs" on any Chapters, official or otherwise. It's certainly okay to develop an official or homegrown Chapter, but anyone else is free to do their own thing with the same Chapter if they want. For example, I'm currently working on a DIY Chapter, the "Vengeance Hawks". If any other member wanted to create their own DIY Chapter named the Vengeance Hawks, they would be perfectly entitled to do so and I wouldn't have any grounds to complain. The same holds true for any other members' Chapters such as Commissar Molotov's Castigators, Tiger Rajah's Fighting Tigers of Veda, etc. It's not cool to plagiarize someone else's work and call it your own, but there is no ownership on Chapters.

Basically from an official standpoint:

Addendum: There is some evidence to suggest that the Fire Angels as a Chapter may not be the first to hold their name and livery, either in whole or in part; a circumstance which while unusual is not without precedent in the history of the Adeptus Astartes. This problem leads to some confusion as to the provenance of battle honours, and mention of Space Marine units bearing similar titles or derivations of name (rendered both in High and Low Gothic as well as various Administratum vox-compt scripts) that exist in numerous records contradicting the information presented here. This is a problem to which almost no Chapter's record is immune. Such data 'ghosts' are a constant source of difficulty in an Imperium whose incalculable and cyclopean breadth and depth seems only exceeded by the quill-strokes needed to record it by countless hands.

 

By all means, keep on doing what you're doing. Just don't get any illusions about "ownership". ;)

Ownership of an official GW Chapter no less.

[Corvi Sanguine]

Thanks for the replies, didn't realise I would offend everyone so much, lol.

 

What I meant was that there is a chapter with no colours or background and I wanted to start a thread for everyone to get involved and make it up, see if we couldn't cone up with a genius bit of fluff we could submit to GW and see if they'd consider adding fan fluff to official fluff.

 

I'm not too "up" on all the Space Marine literature so thought I'd suggest the Astartes Custodes "Primarch" idea. Seemed a good idea, I mean it's all fictitious anyway, anything is possible when you can just make it up right?

 

I meant it to be a fan community team effort, something for fun but it seems to have angered some of you.

 

Well obviously this was a bad idea, but was worth a go.

[Corvi Sanguine]

With regards to going forwards, those interested in developing this idea in a team effort, please feel free to contribute, those just here to criticise, I promise there will be no claiming of ownership or any other violation that may offend the 40k Police or cause me to brought infront or a court or Terran law, sheez!! Lol

[Corvi Sanguine]

First things first: get rid of the Custodes part. Never would happen. Its too 'my Chapter is better than everyone else'. Your chapter is just like the other 999, aka they come from the other 999 chapters, no outside genetic material would be used.

 

Next: Remove any name drops to a first founding in your chapter. The 26th Founding is SO far down the food chain the First 9 are going to be near mythical institutions to them.

 

Lastly: The Color Scheme is nice, but instead of using the Codex colors you should use the heraldic pattern (Second company is a vertical bar, Third Company is a diagonal bar, etc), and have the bar be bone colored like the shoulder pads.

 

First, the Custodes, what stops them from being "primarchs" as such, once again I've not read much spacemarine lit, so I'm unaware of the facts.

 

Consider name drops dropped and love your last idea

[Ecritter]

What stops them is the fact that there are only 20 Primarchs and we all know them.

 

For more info, read THIS.

[Corvi Sanguine]

Sorry Ecritter, I didn't mean literally, obviously I know whom the Primarchs are.

 

I meant in likeness.

 

The Adeptus Custodes are stronger than Space Marines as were the Primarchs and both the Adeptus Custodes and the Primarchs get their genes from the Emperor himself, so apart from their role, how they're organised and their own personality/character/mentality/etc, what genetically makes the Custodes and the Primarchs any different? (definitely feel free to point all differences out, because I am unaware of them)

 

Now I'm not saying we call the (hyperthetical) Custodian Chapter Master of (the hyperthetical new chapter) The Celestial Guard a "Primarch", because he would not be. But he would have the firm genetic foundations to use his gene seed for future Space Marines exactly as a Primarch has done would he not?

 

Forgive me if I am wrong, it's just how I percieved it.

 

But my ultimate question is, is it viable? Could it be done? (consider for a minute the mutations to various gene seeds in the Imperium that came from the Primarchs and then look at the flawless genetics of the Adeptus Custodes, and ask yourself, would the Emperor in his Godliness notice this obvious benefit? :o )

 

Food for thought...

[Corvi Sanguine]

I know if I were the Emperor and it was the dawn of the "42nd" Millenium, I'd use the Custodes to create new chapters, but then hey, I'm not the Emperor.

[Crusader-Brother Rigal]

Now I'm not saying we call the (hyperthrtical) Custodian Chapter Master of (the hyperthetical new chapter) The Celestial Guard a "Primarch", because he would not be. But he would have the firm genetic foundations to use his gene seed for future Space Marines exactly as a Primarch has done would he not?

 

But my ultimate question is, is it viable? Could it be done? (consider for a minute the mutations to various gene seeds in the Imperium that came from the Primarchs and then look at the flawless genetics of the Adeptus Custodes, and ask yourself, wopuld the Emperor in his Godliness notice this obvious benefit? :huh: )

 

- To the first bolded point, On an all technical aspect you would be right in my honest opinion.

 

- As for the second bolded point, In my honest opinion and what I have read of the overall 40k verse. I say no, it is not viable. Though it would seem a good thing to make a perfect marine chapter. When you think of it though it would lead probably to another Horus Heresy. This "perfect" Chapter would get showered with the best of the best equipment because of their gene-seed. This would lead to the other chapters feeling a little left out while others probably stood at their side. Next thing you know battle brother is fighting battle brother all because of favorites. Thats just how I look at it though.

[Corvi Sanguine]

Well then your second point Sir makes it all the more worthwhile creating Space Marines from the Adeptus Custodes, because it will stir things up nicely and give us ample ammunition for the next twenty years of 40k fluff :-)

[Crusader-Brother Rigal]

Well then your second point Sir makes it all the more worthwhile creating Space Marines from the Adeptus Custodes, because it will stir things up nicely and give us ample ammunition for the next twenty years of 40k fluff :-)

 

By no means is this a good idea, the Games-Workshop and Black Library staff work on this stuff on a daily basis. With a major change like this in the 40k fluff should not be handle by the likes of players like us. There are to many factors and small details that could potentially force GW to rewrite everything or for that matter all of us to rewrite IAs on our DIY chapters.

 

I commend you on your effort on trying to think outside the outside of the box. Unfortunatly with the current boundries and unspoken boundries of this Shared Universe your ideas aren't going to work. With making a chapter like this all sorts of problems arise and would in the long wrong effect us all.

[Corvi Sanguine]

Point taken, will drop the Adeptus Custodes Chapter Master theme

[Marshal Rohr]

Instead of using the Custode, why not create a pretty badass character to found your chapter. No one can fault you for that.

[Ecritter]

what genetically makes the Custodes and the Primarchs any different? (definitely feel free to point all differences out, because I am unaware of them)

 

A few points to consider.

 

The original Custodians were the first genetically and psychologically altered warriors created by the Emperor during the Terran Unification Wars. They served as the Emperor's personal bodyguard. The genetic enhancement that forms the Custodes is different from and predates that developed to create Space Marines.

 

Although the Custodes were among the first modified warriors to be created by the Emperor, they were never intended to be part of a conquering army; such a role was to be filled by the latter Astartes armies. This is revealed both in their mindset and training:

 

While Custodians share a genetic kinship with one another within the formation, do not foster the same spirit of brotherhood that is instilled within the Astartes in order to function together as a unit. Indeed, each Custodian prepares and inspects his equipment individually, rather than on military parade.

 

The individuality of each Custodes is further promoted by the fact that the processes required to produce them is not as refined or as simple as that of the Astartes and thus are not "mass-produced" as the Astartes are; meaning that each Custodian is a unique investment for the Imperium.

 

One ritual that the Custodes do share is the recognition of mighty deeds, manifested in the awarding of names, which are added to the Custodian's title to represent the actions he has performed in service to the Emperor. (Constantin Valdor obtained 1932 names prior to the assault on Terra) Such names were inscribed onto the inside of the warrior's battle armour as marks of individual pride.

 

The training of the Custodes also differed immensely from the Astartes, being Bodyguards rather than Soldiers. It is clear from their Blood Games that Custodians are trained in the arts of assassination -both improvised and advanced- in order to counter possible assassination attempts to the Emperor. It is common for several Custodians to be on detached duty for these Blood Games so that the organisation remains vigilant against developing threats.

 

There is no mention of them having the extra Space Marine organs or geneseed at all. Without those they can't be used to make Space Marines.

 

****************************

 

You'd be better off making them Grey Knights successors ... and would get just as many complaints.

[soddinnutter]

Also we don't actually know what the Adeptus Custodes are.

 

Are they a Remnant army from the Unification Wars made by one of the other Warlords using lost means and latter adopted by the winning Warlord (Emperor)?

 

Are they the last surviving regiment of the Men of Iron?

 

Are they lesser versions of what the Emperor is?

 

Brother to Malcador the Sigilate?

 

Were they born human and altered, grown in a glass tank as they are?

 

Warp Denizens bound in mortal form by the will of the Emperor?

 

Have they recruited since the Emperor fell into a coma or are they all incredibly ancient?

 

It is said that the Gray Knights are from the gene-seed of the Emperor and they are better than regular marines and not even the GKs can touch the Adeptus Custodes.

 

And from the First Founding only the Blood Angels, assuming they are not just acting whiney for attention, are in trouble with their genetics getting worse. Even the Space Wolves and Raven Guard who are the most evidently screwed up aren't getting any worse.

 

For Purity and 'Normality' I would go for the progeny of the White Scars, Dark Angels, Iron Hands or Ultamarines. Any problems they have seem to be more cultural than anything else.

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

Dammit, Ecritter!! I need to learn to type faster.

[Ecritter]

Not to mention that the Custodes have given up wearing Power Armor and since this board is dedicated to Power Armored Warriors, they can't be used here. :P

[Corvi Sanguine]

So basically, in a nut shell, back to the drawing board with this one, lol.

 

Well, I better read up on my fluff a bit better.

 

Any suggestions? Starting points?

[Ecritter]

That depends, give us a one line description of what you want your marines to be.

[NightrawenII]

It is said that the Gray Knights are from the gene-seed of the Emperor and they are better than regular marines and not even the GKs can touch the Adeptus Custodes.

And there was once a guy, soddinnutter was his name, and he was burned for blasphemy. For he was spreading the false information amongst the ignorant masses. :D

 

The Grey Knights are not from the gene-seed of Emperor. Because, from the biological standpoint, the Emperor was normal human. The Grey Knights gene-seed is rumoured to be created from the flesh of Emperor. Similar, but not the same. La nuance, guys.

[Corvi Sanguine]

That depends, give us a one line description of what you want your marines to be.

 

Just wanted a brand new chapter to be created with a bit of an abnormal creation to them. Same as normal Marines but with a new spin.

[NightrawenII]

Just wanted a brand new chapter to be created with a bit of an abnormal creation to them. Same as normal Marines but with a new spin.

Check the Cursed Founding... or the Dark Founding.

[Ecritter]

Just wanted a brand new chapter to be created with a bit of an abnormal creation to them. Same as normal Marines but with a new spin.

 

So ... what you're saying is that the creation of the Chapter is more important to you then the Chapter itself?

 

There are lots of ways to do that, way too many to list ... or even for me to think of. I for one did my first Chapter in much that same way. If you want, you can review my White Hand Chapter linked in my sig. That is just one example.