What can I add?

[Br0ther Rafen]

Hi guys

I need some help to perfect this list.

Here's the list:

 

HQ 

Librarian with gate and avenger

100

 

Elites

Terminator Squad

Cyclone and chainfist

230

 

Terminator Squad

Cyclone

230

 

Terminator Squad

Cyclone

230

 

Troops

Tactical Squad 

Multimelta and Meltagun 

Rhino 

205

 

Tactical Squad

Missile launcher and Meltagun

Rhino

205

 

Heavy support

Thunderfire cannon

100

 

Thunderfire cannon

100

 

Predator Destructor

Heavy bolters

85

 

1500 points total

 

Now, with this list I have had some success, but I am curious as to see how can improve this even more? Aside from the Tfires, everything can get around-Termies can DS/be gated around by the libby, Tacs in the Rhino's. Tfires have the awsome 60" range, and don't really need to move anyway. I can hit my opponent with enough missiles to take out a Raider (if I'm lucky) so I don't have to worry about Anti Tank to much. Same goes with infantry (obviously) and so far, in practice games and in real games it has held up well against all comers, from Mechdar to Kan wall, it has held ip very nicely.

I am really just curious as to see how I could improve.

Any thoughts on it? C&C welcome

Thanks in advance

Rafen

[Ookami_81]

Wow.

 

I'm not into this kind of list but yours is impressive. Redundancy, mobility, originality (15 pew pew termies, wow really).

Tacticals have really good set up with rhino, and most effective equipment, and cheap: well done.

Termies have best equipment with cyclone.

Hell of a firebase you've got. One defender tactical, one hunter. Termies are good at cleaning, and also killing with the libby.

 

It's a well balanced list.

 

Do you want to improve it in 2000 pts or keep it at 1500 ? If it's the second case I cannot say a thing about it.

Maybe too few tanks ? 2 rhinos and one pred will burn quickly alone, but if the enemy is concentrating on it, he will have to deal with angry termies gated behind his back...

[DAwarrior43]

The top termi squad should cost 235 for the cml+chainfist, other thn that I like the list, I guess my only thing to consider is finding a way to upgrade the predator to a combi-pred with the sponson lascannons in stead of the heavy bolters to give some added long range AT

[Ming]

I'd get the librarian into termie armor with a storm shield to become 2+/3+, as his purpose is to travel with and gate the terminators. That might require you to drop one Cyclone and some other stuff to do it or make other choices. If you drop one cyclone, could combine 2 of the termie squads into one large one that you could combat squad on deployment, or keep large if needed.

[Hellios]

I guess your biggest issue would be something like heavy armour guard as they can bring enough AV14 and AP2 that you don't have enough missiles (unless you get lucky) to slag all the tanks and they can make terminators go PUFF.

 

Other lists that might cause you problems are really fast lists but I guess that depends both on you and who/what you play against.

 

Not much else I can say... you can put out a good amount of anti-infantry and anti-tank. Your biggest problem might be against armies who can either out-do you in combat or shooting (seems general I know but I feel this list would do better against balanced lists). You should know if you can slow down and kill enough CC before it reaches you. Again if an army can outshoot you I don't think you have a super CC punch and while you say you can get around two rhinos are not hard to pop and once your terminators have deepstriked they are not that mobile (although cyclones allow you to support from across the field).

 

I think this list can work but I don't think this list is the be all and end all and certain armies will give you a tough time. Heh if it was always easy it wouldn't be fun!

[Jackelope King]

My strong distaste for using points to give Tactical Squads power fists and for mixing up different types of weapons in different Tactical Squads is well-known, as is my assessment of the Thunderfire Cannon as poor due to its lack of durability. I don't think any of that needs more rehashing here, so moving on...

 

Dropping the Thunderfires for Dakka Predators nets you 30 points, and dropping the Power Fists nets you another 75, and you're well on your way to slapping down some MM/HF speeders. At 1500, I'm not convinced that you need Fast Melta, but you're right at that gray zone points level where you will be hurting for fast melta in some games.

 

For expanding this list up to 1750, you have empty fast attack slots, and at that points-value, you will need fast melta. 3x MM/HF Speeders fit the bill pretty nicely. Dropping the Thunderfires to Dakka Predators and losing the power fists gives us the ability to go with one squad of 2x MM/HF Speeders and two squads of 1x Typhoon Speeder, and you can still afford to slap a Combi-Melta on each Sergeant.

[LardO'Blood]

I'm not into this kind of list but yours is impressive. Redundancy, mobility, originality (15 pew pew termies, wow really).

Original? All my lists have AT LEAST 15 terminators at 1000+ points. :unsure: (Even when I'm not rolling Deathwing)

I think it looks pretty good, I do suggest you swap out the Thunderfires for MM land speeders or something else that can perform an AT roll. The librarian should also get terminator armor and a storm shield so you can use VoD.

[Tranc]

Shouldn't the Tactical Squads be 235 pts each?

 

I am impressed that you can fit 3x Terminator Squads into your list at 1500 pts. I am currently running 2.

[LardO'Blood]

MY BAD. I was using Dark Angels point costs. Yeah, I think it's somewhere around that ballpark.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

I would dump the thunderfires, they don't work very nicely. Go for a tac squad instead. You should always have three tac squads for at least 1250 to about 2500. I also would dump the predator, it can't move and shoot all guns. I would then give the libby termy armor and give out a few more termies and some chainfisty goodness.

[Ookami_81]

My strong distaste for using points to give Tactical Squads power fists and for mixing up different types of weapons in different Tactical Squads is well-known, as is my assessment of the Thunderfire Cannon as poor due to its lack of durability. I don't think any of that needs more rehashing here, so moving on...

 

Dropping the Thunderfires for Dakka Predators nets you 30 points, and dropping the Power Fists nets you another 75, and you're well on your way to slapping down some MM/HF speeders. At 1500, I'm not convinced that you need Fast Melta, but you're right at that gray zone points level where you will be hurting for fast melta in some games.

 

For expanding this list up to 1750, you have empty fast attack slots, and at that points-value, you will need fast melta. 3x MM/HF Speeders fit the bill pretty nicely. Dropping the Thunderfires to Dakka Predators and losing the power fists gives us the ability to go with one squad of 2x MM/HF Speeders and two squads of 1x Typhoon Speeder, and you can still afford to slap a Combi-Melta on each Sergeant.

 

Maybe I'm blind, but I didn't see fists in the list for tacticals ??? :blush: As what I see is melta/multimelta and melta/ML wich doens't seem bad in my eyes. The full melta in a Rhino will be very good in midfield, and the other one a bit more mulit-task with a longer range weapon that can be AT or AP.

 

I don't use Tfires but my thought was using two maybe avoided many problems people have with these when they're taking only one of them.

 

For the libby as I didn't watch the pts cost I assumed he was already in TDA.

[Bartali]

The Libby probably needs re-configuring a bit. Ideally you want him in TDA with Storm Shield if he's sitting with the Terminators, change the Thunderfires over to Dakka Preds to help pay for that.

I'd also change the powers if he's sitting with Tactical Terminators - you don't need GoI 'cos you'll be shooting and the CML has good enough range. Null Zone and then Avenger or Vortex.

If you do want to GoI a Terminator squad around, try changing one CML squad to a TH/SS squad.

 

I'd probably also change the Tac Missile Launcher to another Multi-Melta.

 

Edit - Oh, I also wouldn't deep strike CML Terminators. You want them on the board shooting from turn 1

[Jackelope King]

Maybe I'm blind, but I didn't see fists in the list for tacticals ??? :P As what I see is melta/multimelta and melta/ML wich doens't seem bad in my eyes. The full melta in a Rhino will be very good in midfield, and the other one a bit more mulit-task with a longer range weapon that can be AT or AP.

You're not, though I might be crossing my brain with another thread or somesuch. My apologies.

[waaanial00]

The Libby probably needs re-configuring a bit. Ideally you want him in TDA with Storm Shield if he's sitting with the Terminators, change the Thunderfires over to Dakka Preds to help pay for that.

 

And why does he need to be in TDA with Storm Shield for that? They are going to be shooting most of the time so what difference does it make? Also if you are talking about survivability then the Terminators are going to buy the farm to AP2 weapons even with the Libby chancing one AP2 hit a turn.

 

I'd also change the powers if he's sitting with Tactical Terminators - you don't need GoI 'cos you'll be shooting and the CML has good enough range. Null Zone and then Avenger or Vortex.

If you do want to GoI a Terminator squad around, try changing one CML squad to a TH/SS squad.

 

Good advice on dropping GOI, its a rather gimmicky power which can be shut down all too well. Your guys are going to be keeping mobile and you therefore have a 28" range on each of your weapons, which is more than enough for the majority of cases.

 

I would stay away from Vortex though, you are standing next to rather expensive 1 wound models to tempt fate that much.

[Bartali]

And why does he need to be in TDA with Storm Shield for that? They are going to be shooting most of the time so what difference does it make? Also if you are talking about survivability then the Terminators are going to buy the farm to AP2 weapons even with the Libby chancing one AP2 hit a turn.

 

For when the Terminators inevitably get assaulted, or see below...

 

Good advice on dropping GOI, its a rather gimmicky power which can be shut down all too well. Your guys are going to be keeping mobile and you therefore have a 28" range on each of your weapons, which is more than enough for the majority of cases.

 

I would stay away from Vortex though, you are standing next to rather expensive 1 wound models to tempt fate that much.

 

The libby can always move away from the squad to use Vortex on vehicles should any get close, allowing the rest of your terminators to shoot/assault the contents should you want too. TDA/SS helps with surivability away from the squad.

[Br0ther Rafen]

hey guys, sorry for taking so long to post back.

First off, I would really like to keep the Tfires because, in almost every game, they performed very well by simply delaying his horde, killing light tanks, scything down APCless squad in a shooting phase, etc etc. And while i can get Dakka Preds for cheaper, they don't perform the same role. With the Preds, i found i was having more trouble killing larger squads of things, including simple Tacticals, with the Preds while the Tfire was smooth sailing all the way.

And what i meant before abbout adding to it is what are some things which are easily replacable in my list. Later, when i'm on my computer, i will post a 2000 pointer and see what you guys think of it.

Back on topic, Someone mentioned replacing the Termies with Typhoons/MM/HF Land Speeders before? (to lazy to go back and check and be sure)

I don'y want to replace the Termies for a few simple reasons. A, The Termies are more durable, and don't die from rapid firing bolters easily. 2, They are bad :P. Come on, admit it, the're awsome. C, I'm not interested in spending saved up cash on Speeders when i already have plenty of Termies to use.

Also, Libby with Gate is used simply for rapid redeployment. I know it's overkill increasing the range of the Cyclone to 72", but i have used it to simply redeploy and counter a DSing threat, like Drop Poding Sternguard or something (for example), and i have utalised it to help mobilty.

btw, I don't expect my Libby to survive. In almost all of my games, the libby died because of ID, no Invuln, etc, but that doesn't matter. As long as he fulfils his purpose (gating Termies, Null Zoning scary stuff, shuting down Pyskers etc) he can go die in a hole. Thats not to say i just drop him in with termies and throw him away, It's just that Once i've used him to Null Zone those Hammernators or what-have-you, I don't mind if he is sacraficed in the process, Though a survivable Libby is very much better for overall use.

Anyway, hoping to post my 2k list tommorow.

Thanks for C&C and all input so far guys!

Rafen

[Br0ther Rafen]

Here is my 2k list:

 

HQ

Librarian

Bolt Pistol and a Force Weapon

Avenger and gate of Infinity

Terminator Armour Storm Shield

140 points

 

Elites

Terminator Squad

10x Terminators with 2xCyclone Missile Launchers

460 points

 

Terminator Squad

5x Terminators with a Cyclone missile Lancher

230 points

 

Terminator Squad

5x Terminators with a Cyclone Missile Launcher

230 points

 

Troops

Tactical Squad

MeltaGun and a Multi Melta

Rhino

210 points

 

Tactical Squad

Plasma Gun and a Missile Launcher

Rhino

215 Points

 

Tactical Squad

MeltaGun and a MultiMelta

Rhino

210 points

 

Heavy Support

Thunderire Cannon

100 points

 

Predator Destructor

Heavy Bolter Sponsons

85 points

 

Thunderfire Cannon

100 points

 

Total Points: 1980

 

I'm not very sure what to do with last twenty points since i'm set for points.

As you can see, basically still the same principle as before except an extra Terminator Squad :P

However, unlike the previous list, i haven't tested this beforehand, so i am not entierly sure if this will perform as well on the bigger table, (and i'm not accustomed to 2k lists anyway) so I am just wondering what do you guys think of this list?

Thanks for any C&C so far guys.

Rafen

[LardO'Blood]

A few things:

You can make your two 5 man terminator squads into one larger and combat squad. This lets you run a 2 CML, 5 SB squad and a 5 SB squad. Pretty fun IMO.

Add a chain fist for every 5 terminators to finish up the 20 points. It gives them much better AT.