Emperor's intentions?

[mcbeaty]

what where the emperors intentions why did chaos decide to launch a galaxy spanning crusade against him.i may be wrong but i dont know of any time when the gods of chaos has tried to exterminate a race on the scale of the herasy.did the emperor piss them off used them and backed out of an agreement.i rember reading in the lost andv the damned book he was some kind of star child.

[ICHD?]

In basest terms:

The Emperor was researching how to become a God. The Chaos Gods, already slighted by The Emperor for lying to them (reasons unspecified) to gain their help in creating the Primarchs, decided this really wasn't on, so they used Lorgar, Horus et al to stop him.

 

 

Thats why.

[Chowda]

My question may tie into the question from the OP, but why did the Emperor need the crusade to be about eradicating religious worship from the galaxy?

 

My hunch is that gods need worship and devotion to gain power compared to other gods in the warp. By getting rid of worship from living humans, you weaken the power of those entities. The Emperor, who probably fancied himself a different kind of god (or at least an exception to the rules) would grow to become powerful enough to suppress anything the warp had to offer up against him, thus protecting humanity's place as top dogs in the universe.

 

But I'm no expert, that's just the assumption I'm going on.

[Ubermensch Commander]

Chaos, by it's very nature is corrupting. See example: Eye of Terror. Nightmarish hell realm. The Chaos Gods wanted to do that to the entirety of reality.

The Big E, wanting to uplift humanity, sought to obliterate and weaken Chaos through A) the construction of Webway portals for Humanity's own use to free them from having to enter the Immaterium. :( Create a galaxy wide array of Astronomicon beacons to push back the Chaos realm into nothingness.

 

The Emperor had no designs of becoming a god. He denied his divinity, frequently and with vehemence. The Chaos Gods feared him because if his plan had come to fruition they would have been barred, almost completely, from interfering in the material realm. Humanity's destiny would have been it's own.

The Emperor wanted to get rid of religions because A) they served the purposes of the his enemies, the Chaos gods and B) they lead to people doing monstrous, stupid, and monstrously stupid things. An empirical rationalist uplifted humanity was the Emperor's goal.

See example: Lorgar. (and most of real life human history involving monotheism)

 

As for the Chaos gods "Not eliminating an entire race" they do it quite frequently when they can or else pervert the race into slavering monstrosities.

See example: Eldar or the Laer.

[mcbeaty]

chaos never really touched the eldar more than a bully in a play groung occasionaly pushing abd prodding their fall was their fault.but out of the major races no ever gets as much attention tau doesent get touched really much its lije chaos has a grudge agaibst humanity and intent on wiping us all out.maybe were just more easier to sway to chaos .

[lee265]

Well lets be fair the elder are the resean Slanesh exists. And according to the books if there souls aren't captured in that weird spirit keeping device they fly off to the warp with said Chaos entity. Orks by nature are a race that is devoted to total war can anyone say Khorn. little is known of the Tau so it might be bad for them. and then there is the race of man.

 

Also as a side note the last I remember the only hint we have of the Emperor making a deal with Chaos was from a daemon and they aren't known for telling the truth. My thought is humanity was just in the right place to be hit with chaos.

[Captain Malachi]

The three most common races in the galazy are the orks, tyranids and humans. Tyranids don't have their own minds to be corrupted. Orks are similarly resistant to corruption (it's not really explained how). Humans, on the other hand, are the perfect tools for chaos to use, being both easily corruptable and stupid enough to go along with it.

 

As for the tau, they have little to no warp presence. Daemons have trouble seeing them, let alone corrupting them. The eldar of course, there's just too few of them, and as for the necrons, well they're made of metal and the warp is like poison to their masters.

 

Also, we (as in the readers) are human, most of us would be more likely to enjoy reading a book about humans than tau or whatever. Not all, but most.

[gaurdian31]

Orks are most likely resistant to Chaos because they believe they are. Much the same way that anything they make works. Also they worship Gork and Mork, not Khorne. Just because their gods are cunning and brutal (or brutal and cunning) doesn't make them Khorne. I mean look at Khaine the Bloody Handed, he wasn't Khorne either but he was a god of war and destruction.

[Ubermensch Commander]

chaos never really touched the eldar more than a bully in a play groung occasionaly pushing abd prodding their fall was their fault.but out of the major races no ever gets as much attention tau doesent get touched really much its lije chaos has a grudge agaibst humanity and intent on wiping us all out.maybe were just more easier to sway to chaos .

 

Reducing an entire race to the brink of extinction and then continuing to hunger for the souls of those still living is hardly a "bully in a play ground" scenario. The Eldar did create Slaanesh, yes, but that does change Slaanesh being an evil corrupting entity that hungers for the souls of the living.

 

Chaos is an inherently evil and corrupting force. It saps freewill and sanity and is, in the words of one Adeptus Sororitas, a "cosmic obscenity." They will (and according to some fluff, can) corrupt anything and everything. Even in the Grimdark, morally grey, setting of 40K Chaos is pretty fricking evil.

 

Humanity gets so much attention because there are so many of us, and most of us are under the auspices of the Imperium of man, an organization that recognizes Chaos as a threat and fights against it.

Chaos doesn't have a "grudge" against humanity, it has a grudge against all reality. We just happen to be the big power on the block and the one that their favorite playtoys, the Chaos legions, are most ready to fight against.

[lee265]

Does it mateer what you call the gods name when khaine, gork and mork, and khorne all love war? Just saying it might be a reason. Also the whole we can I dentify with humans is a great explanation if you break the fourth wall so to speak. also what is the source on Tau not having warp presence? I've seen many on the necrons and tyranids, but not the tau.

[Captain Malachi]

I can't remember where I read it to be honest, I just remember reading it 'somewhere'. Sorry that's really the best I can give you. :/ The tau or daemon codex most likely, but I don't have them on me to check. Also, it's not that they don't have any warp presence, it's just that they have a very weak one, making it difficult for daemons to see them and fight them effectively. It's also why they don't have psykers.

 

@Gaurdian: Belief probably is the reason, I just mean it hasn't been stated anywhere. Also, orks are not impossible to corrupt (I remember something about Nurgle boyz), just very difficult.

[gaurdian31]

It's mentioned in the Firewarrior video game and most likely the book of the same name.

 

And I didn't know about the nurgle boyz. Where are they from?

[Captain Malachi]

I think it was an article on the different fluff excuses for the daemonhunters rules that let their enemies take daemonic units. Of course it also had something about a possessed ethereal which we've already established should be pretty damn hard (thought not necessarily impossible), so it's not exactly canon. But if it is belief, then all you'd have to do is convince an ork he can be corrupted and then you could do it, so again difficult but not impossible. The most difficult part would probably be getting him to stop killing you long enough to do the convincing.

[maverike_prime]

chaos never really touched the eldar more than a bully in a play groung occasionaly pushing abd prodding their fall was their fault.but out of the major races no ever gets as much attention tau doesent get touched really much its lije chaos has a grudge agaibst humanity and intent on wiping us all out.maybe were just more easier to sway to chaos .

 

Reducing an entire race to the brink of extinction and then continuing to hunger for the souls of those still living is hardly a "bully in a play ground" scenario. The Eldar did create Slaanesh, yes, but that does change Slaanesh being an evil corrupting entity that hungers for the souls of the living.

 

Chaos is an inherently evil and corrupting force. It saps freewill and sanity and is, in the words of one Adeptus Sororitas, a "cosmic obscenity." They will (and according to some fluff, can) corrupt anything and everything. Even in the Grimdark, morally grey, setting of 40K Chaos is pretty fricking evil.

 

Humanity gets so much attention because there are so many of us, and most of us are under the auspices of the Imperium of man, an organization that recognizes Chaos as a threat and fights against it.

Chaos doesn't have a "grudge" against humanity, it has a grudge against all reality. We just happen to be the big power on the block and the one that their favorite playtoys, the Chaos legions, are most ready to fight against.

 

I remember reading somewhere that prior to the birth of Slaanesh, the warp was calm and peaceful and that the Eldar Souls simply melted back into the ether to be reborn into the next generation. With the Birth of Slaanesh, the warp was torn assunder to become the violent and dangerous realm it is now. Please correct me if I am wrong, but the Eldar fall occurred about the same time as the Warp Storm around earth dissipated allowing the Emperor to launch the great crusade.

 

Suddenly me thinks the Emperor knew more about what was going on in the galaxy to have developed the Primarchs and Space Marines at just the right time to take advantage of the now vanished warp storms.

[Johanson]

I also read that before the Fall the warp was peaceful as there was a balance between the three (Khorne, Tzeentch and Nurgle) chaos gods. But when Slaanesh arrived and wanted a piece of the cake (the Warp) the balance tipped over. I also think that this was the time when the Lord of Change broke his staff so he loosed the most of his power. This gave the emperor an opportunity to create the Space Marines. My guess is that he asked each one of the gods for help. I think Khorne gave him the skill of fighting, Kurgle resistance to decease, Slaanesh gave them the perfect bodies and Tzeentch gave them wisdom. But here is some things we know for sure.

 

1. The Chaos gods tried to stop the Emperor by sending away the primarches.

2. The Emperor tried to invade the webway by using Magnus power. This was maybe to reach the Black Library of Chaos.

3. The Chaos gods tried to stop the Emperor by the Horus Heresy.

 

Otherwise i have run out of ideas and facts. Otherwise have a nice X-Mas. :)

[Razhbad]

The Emperor of Mankind most certainly wanted to be a god. Why? My guess is he believed it was the only way of humanity surviving against chaos/necrons/nids.

 

Now he wiped out all the religeons because he wanted to weaken the gods power and make it easier for when people would worship him. Indeed he did deny his divinity but then he let Lorgar preach his divinity for years before he stopped him.

 

The Emperor planned the entire HH so he would eventually become a god, he knew that he needed a religion (one Lorgar created), he needed no opposition (which his great crusade did) and he needed to make a huge sacrifice for mankind therefore martyring himself (his battle with Horus). Then with his form held in place by the Golden Throne all belief in him caused his own power to grow making him a god, the only down side is the Golden Throne keeps him prisoner what he needed is for the Golden Throne to fail after thousands of years so he would no longer be bound to his physical form, oh wait is not the Golden Throne already failing.

[lee265]

Razhbad hiw do you get this "Then with his form held in place by the Golden Throne all belief in him caused his own power to grow making him a god, the only down side is the Golden Throne keeps him prisoner what he needed is for the Golden Throne to fail after thousands of years so he would no longer be bound to his physical form, oh wait is not the Golden Throne already failing."

[Trel]

I'm sure the Emperor wanted to be more powerful, yes, but not a god to be worshipped per se. By being more powerful, he could more effectively shield humanity from the depradations of Chaos while humanity evolves into a fully psychic race. By breaking into the Webway and using that instead of Warp travel, it eliminates a major need for humanity to interact with the Warp.

 

Whatever his motivations to become more powerful, he certainly didn't want to become a god, otherwise everything he'd have worked for would be un-done. See, for example, the current situation.

[Razhbad]

Ok its mainly just a theory, but things we most certainly know. Belief in God's increases their power after all Gork and Mork are rumoured to be the most powerful gods due to the sheer number of those worshipping them. Plus in the old fluff their was the Star Child (who has not been mentioned in a long time). Now the Golden Throne keeps the Emperor in stasis so his form can keep on battling Deamons/powering Astronomican (with the assistance of 1000 dead psykers a day). If this did not do this then Deamons would flood into real space, the Astronomican would fail and mankind would die as a result. Yet if the Emperor could become a god then he would have no need for the Golden Throne, but he would need it to be working long enough for the belief of the next numerous species (man) to worship him thus increasing the power of his psychic essence.

[Aegnor]

The source re: Tau having no psychic presence in the warp is the Tau codex. Likewise, it is stated in the SM codex - and Eldar I think - that the Emperor had long foreseen the birth of Slaanesh and was therefore ready to boil out of the solar system when the warp storms cleared.

 

At least in the old fluff the Emperor had pretty much perfect knowledge of the future up until the beginning of the Horus Heresy. There was a great short story (about four pages long) from the Emperor's point of view printed in White Dwarf back in RT days. A friend had it and I've never been able to find a version online, but it started in the Palace as the Emperor and his Custodes Sanguinas and Dorn were preparing to teleport onto Horus' barge and the Emperor is thinking to himself that for the first time in his existence, he has no visibility of the future, and that he had long known he would reach a point where this would happen, and wondering whether it meant he would die.

 

Was a cracking read, the line I remember the best is the final one. It shows Dorn finally finding the bridge, seeing Horus and Sanguinas dead, and the Emperor fatally wounded. It said something about feeling that this was a situation no being could deal with, but ended "but Dorn would do his best". Perfectly captures in a single line everything Dorn was about.

[Morgernstein]

i dont thinks orks would be very hard to corrupt

 

Chaos lord "hey, you orks over there want to do some fighting?"

Orks "Waaaaggggghhh!!!!"

Chaos lord "riiight, ill take that as a yes?"

Orks "Waaaaggggghhh!!!"

Chaos lord "ok good"

(Waaaaagggghhh!!!, the ork inside me talking)

 

or they could just be bought like in Dow 1

[Clewz]

Well lets be fair the elder are the resean Slanesh exists.

 

In the madness of the warp Slannesh had always existed though (see chaos daemons codex)

[Anselmius]

My hunch is that gods need worship and devotion to gain power compared to other gods in the warp. By getting rid of worship from living humans, you weaken the power of those entities.

Since all people worship something, I don't get it. If that were the case, and he eliminated religion, most people would (as the common person often does) end up worshiping something like pleasure, pride, or progress, eventhough it wouldn't look all supernatural and what not. This, of course, would feed the chaos gods. If the chaos gods got power from worship, then he should have set up some other object of worship in place of chaos traits (like himself). I guess maybe the object of worship was the "Imperial Truth'.

 

Meh I dunno. I say the HH series is a Tzeentchian lie! The Emperor would never uphold the so-called 'Imperial Truth'! ;)