Feel no pain clows?

[Niiai]

I am a bit confused by dakkadakka, so I thought I should ask here:

 

Do all the units in a mixed group get the bonus from feel no pain until a FAQ awsers this? From RAW, it looks that way. (I am looking at you beastmaster.)

 

Do one IC that joins a unit confer the rule to the entier unit? (Like say, a homunculy joins a unit of harlequins.)

 

Do any unit that has the pain token benefit from feel no pain, even if they do not have the power from pain rule? (Like say a homunculy leaving the harlequins but not taking the pain token with him.)

 

The reason why I am asking is that it seems the power from pain only grants a unit the abilaty to generate pain tokens. But does it also give the use of the benefits of the token? I am also trying to think what chronos engines could do in a team game if that was so. (Orks or tyranids anyone?)

[JamesI]

Normally, an IC with Feel No Pain would not convey the rule to the squad. But, I don't know the specifics of DE rules to say if they have something that overrides it.

[Niiai]

Well that is the problem. The dark eldar has a "power from pain rule" that generates pain tokens. It also states that units with pain tokens recive benefits (feel no pain being the first one you get.) However, it is not the only way in the book to generate feel no pain tokens. What more it apears that it is the tokens themself that generate the effect. It is not realy clerified in the rules.

[muadib02]

a unit with power from pain generates pain tokens

a unit with a pain token gains following ability....

Sharing the pain: should a unit be joined by a character with one or more tokens the combined unit is treated as having the sum of all the tokens (2 on IC, 1 on unit =3)

 

1. Mixed units. As written it is possible to be interpreted that beastmasters and their beasts get the benefits

2. IC joins and confers pain ability to squad as per sharing the pain , as written is is possible to interpret that a Haemy could give Harlies FNP

3. As is written it could be interpreted that you can leave a pain token with Harlies or whatever

 

I am very cautious about my wording of this because the apparent intent of the rule is for it to affect models with power from pain. (I also play DE on top of my space wolves) As such I am staunchly against the idea of non PFP models gaining benefits, specifically through adding a Haemy to a Harlequin squad. As for resolving the interpretation...all i can say is its open enough that you should either hash it out with your regular group before it becomes a problem or just D6 the problem when it arises

[Dan VK]

Do all the units in a mixed group get the bonus from feel no pain until a FAQ awsers this? From RAW, it looks that way. (I am looking at you beastmaster.)

Yes, all members of a unit with a pain token gain the benefit. A unit of beasts without a beastmaster would lose the ability to generate pain tokens.

 

Do one IC that joins a unit confer the rule to the entier unit? (Like say, a homunculy joins a unit of harlequins.)

Yes, if an Independent Character with a pain token joins a unit then all members of the new unit, the combined previous unit and the Independent Character, gain the benefit of the pain token. If the Independent Character leaves the unit, the controlling player may choose to leave the pain token with the unit rather than keeping it with the Independent Character.

 

Do any unit that has the pain token benefit from feel no pain, even if they do not have the power from pain rule? (Like say a homunculy leaving the harlequins but not taking the pain token with him.)

The benefits of pain tokens are not restricted to units with the Power from Pain special rule.

 

The reason why I am asking is that it seems the power from pain only grants a unit the abilaty to generate pain tokens. But does it also give the use of the benefits of the token? I am also trying to think what chronos engines could do in a team game if that was so. (Orks or tyranids anyone?)

Power from Pain grants the ability to generate pain tokens. There currently are no rules I am aware of that allow team games, so interactions between allied codices are irrelevant.

 

 

[Edit: I forgot key words.]

[Legatus]

The reason why I am asking is that it seems the power from pain only grants a unit the abilaty to generate pain tokens. But does it also give the use of the benefits of the token?

I do imagine that that was the intention. Otherwise it would be possible to augment Harlequins with pain tokens (or do they have a special rule that DE Characters cannot join them?), and I cannot imagine why they would benefit from the sadistic Dark Eldar rituals. However, unfortunately the rules for 'Power from Pain' are not currently written that way.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Now I dont have the DE codex on me but wasnt the pain tokens rule a sub heading of the Power From Pain rule?

[Spacefrisian]

When an Haemonculus joins a unit than as a whole they have 1 paintoken if he leaves than the Tokens are to be divided among them so the paintolen of the Haemie could end up with another unit.

 

This 1st token grants feel no pain. (p25 DE dex, sharing the pain)

[Niiai]

Perhaps I fraced my question badly. I am just wondering if the entier unit benefits from the pain token even if none of them have the power from pain abilaty.

 

And deciding with a d6 is kind of dumb since it is highly relevant as the best way to use a webway portal delivery system is clows that can not be shot at.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Perhaps I fraced my question badly. I am just wondering if the entier unit benefits from the pain token even if none of them have the power from pain abilaty.

 

And deciding with a d6 is kind of dumb since it is highly relevant as the best way to use a webway portal delivery system is clows that can not be shot at.

 

With a Shadow Seer those clowns aren't getting shot up too much to begin with.

[Dan VK]

Now I dont have the DE codex on me but wasnt the pain tokens rule a sub heading of the Power From Pain rule?

Pain tokens are described in the Power from Pain and Sharing the Pain subsections of the Army Special Rules section. The codex does not restrict the effects of pain tokens to units with the Power from Pain special rule, it only restricts the generation of pain tokens to units with the Power from Pain special rule.

 

Perhaps I fraced my question badly. I am just wondering if the entier unit benefits from the pain token even if none of them have the power from pain abilaty.

Power from Pain is not required to gain a pain token. The is no restriction on what units are effected by pain tokens. Yes, a unit without the Power from Pain special rule may gain the benefits of pain tokens.

 

And deciding with a d6 is kind of dumb since it is highly relevant as the best way to use a webway portal delivery system is clows that can not be shot at.

Deciding how to play a confusing rule with a roll-off, or The Most Important Rule as it is called in the BRB, is the only way to resolve some rules disagreements without making a house rule. Luckily this set of rules is clearly worded and should not require a roll-off.

 

 

[Edit: Added an additional response.]

[BOBMAKENZIE]

But if there is no rule for pain tokens on units without Power From Pain what do they do? If the pain token rule is within the power from pain rule then it shouldnt carry over to a unit without them in that they can get pain tokens they just look pretty and dont do anything.

[Dan VK]

But if there is no rule for pain tokens on units without Power From Pain what do they do? If the pain token rule is within the power from pain rule then it shouldnt carry over to a unit without them in that they can get pain tokens they just look pretty and dont do anything.

I agree that it should not carry over, but I do not see anything in the rules preventing it from doing so. For the sake of my win/draw/loss ratio I hope Games Workshop rewords the rule with errata so only models with Power from Pain gain the benefits of pain tokens, but currently that is not how the rules are written.

 

The rules do not state only units with Power from Pain are affected by pain tokens. The rules do state that a unit with a pain token gains a specific benefit. Therefore, any unit with pain tokens gains the appropriate benefits.

[Seahawk]

Once again, it matters not at all how people feel about a rule. The rules clearly say a unit with a pain token gains the benefits, and that they are shared between units and IC's. Units that have Power from Pain gain them in that way. Other units in the book (like the Talos I believe) can simply give them to units, and as long as they are units in that Dark Eldar army nothing else matters.

 

Power from Pain only tells you how those units acquire tokens. Other units that want them have to get them through other means.

 

Pain tokens give abilities to units that have them, period.

 

They are completely independent from each other and will not change as there is no reason to do so.

[Niiai]

But if there is no rule for pain tokens on units without Power From Pain what do they do? If the pain token rule is within the power from pain rule then it shouldnt carry over to a unit without them in that they can get pain tokens they just look pretty and dont do anything.

I agree that it should not carry over, but I do not see anything in the rules preventing it from doing so. For the sake of my win/draw/loss ratio I hope Games Workshop rewords the rule with errata so only models with Power from Pain gain the benefits of pain tokens, but currently that is not how the rules are written.

 

The rules do not state only units with Power from Pain are affected by pain tokens. The rules do state that a unit with a pain token gains a specific benefit. Therefore, any unit with pain tokens gains the appropriate benefits.

 

I am not shure it will get FAQ/erataed.