Primarch Friendships

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

No source?! dangnammit!

 

WLK

[fission]

In Promethean Sun : Vulkan was reclusive with his brothers . Except Ferrus who was a friend of him . And Horus who was a sort of mentor for him .

[Jareddm]

While this is entirely fan-created material, it is accurate to a scary degree and I will defend its value to the fandom.

 

http://menducia.atspace.com/primarchs/I.html

 

It ties each of the Primarchs to a Major Arcana of the Tarot and then uses the relationships between the Arcana to determine the primarch relationships. It is miraculous how accurate it is and even offers some interesting inference into the relationships the primarchs might have had with the two lost primarchs.

[Warp Angel]

I'm a huge Dark Angel slappy (for the fluff anyway - tabletop rules have been horrible since 2nd ed).

 

Johnson was an unlikeable ass. I think he and the Wolf eventually got along only because the Wolf appreciated Johnson. I don't think Johnson ever particularly liked Russ or anyone else. His (lack of) social skills are what led to his legion's schism. He trusted no one, except maybe Luther. There, I'm not even completely sure.

[Grimdarkness]

IX - The Hermit

I - Lion El'Jonson

Astrological: Virgo

Ruler: I

Exalts: I

Fall: III

Detriment: X

Alchemical: Distillation

Qabala: 20th path

 

Character of the Lion:

 

The Hermit is withdrawn and introspective, quiet and reserved. He will only let a select few whom he trusts completely past his guard, if he does not shun company entirely.

 

Very aware of small details, he has a tendency to be highly critical, both of others and of himself. He has a distinct tendency to brood on things, trying to piece together vast amounts of small details into a coherent whole and agonizing over anything that doesn't fit.

 

He will rarely share his thoughts with anyone without encouragement, preferring to keep to himself unless specifically called upon. He may project unapproachability, probably by giving the constant impression that there is something very important preying on his mind (which may not be a false impression). Interruptions to his thoughts or other annoyances will probably make him suddenly irritable and scathing.

 

Despite being withdrawn and quiet, there is also a strong restlessness to the Hermit which tends to manifest on a small scale; tension, sleeplessness or a tendency to pace or fidget when deep in thought, which is most of the time.

 

The Hermit forms a trio with the Hierophant (Lorgar) and the Devil (Peturabo), focused on knowledge and ideological structure. The Hermit attempts to study and understand the universe, the Heirophant codifies and teaches, and the Devil represents suspicion and pressure caused by the rigidity of such structures. This trio in turn represents three aspects of the personality of the World (The Imperium).

 

At best, keenly observant, an extremely sharp and logical thinker, self-sufficient and practical.

 

At worst, overly critical, self-abusive, irritable, not forthcoming and unassertive, and unable to see the wood for the trees.

 

Relations with his brother Primarchs:

 

Magnus the Red - The Magus: An extremely valuable relationship. The Hermit focuses the Magus's intellect onto concrete, practical goals, particularly how to improve situations. Together they can form practical but brilliant plans, whereas alone the Hermit will tend simply to brood over and over on one thing and the Magus will veer off towards the impractically baroque and grandiose. They understand each other's desire for solitude, ironically allowing them to spend time together without grating on each other's nerves. (Mercury/Gemini [Mercury Rules, Mercury Exalted])

 

Fulgrim - The Empress: Brings out each other's obsession with detail and perfectionism. Probably constantly criticising each other. The Empress cannot understand the Hermit's withdrawal and self-imposed asceticism, nor the Hermit the Empress's gregariousness and materialism. (Venus/Virgo [Venus in Fall])

 

Hours Lupercal - The Emperor: There is some hidden, behind-the-scenes connection between these two, which should make their interaction slightly more harmonious despite their lack of common ground. (Aries/Virgo [Quincunx Antiscia])

 

Lorgar - The Hierophant: Both are hardworking and have high and exacting standards. In addition, the Hermit can debate the Hierophant's dogma on his own level, making the Hierophant more aware of flaws in his thinking. The Hierophant can bring the Hermit, or at least his input, out of his self-imposed withdrawal and into the wider world. Should be a good and productive relationship, though the Empress may be a point of contention between them. (Taurus/Virgo [Earth Trine])

 

Alpharius Omegon - The Lovers: Tension. Under pressure from each other, both tend to withdraw rather than deal with each other head on. The Hermit demands focus and peace, whereas the Lovers prefers stimulation and can have a short attention span. (Gemini/Virgo [Mutable Square])

 

Roboute Guilliman - The Chariot: Mutual understanding based on desire for certainty. The relationship can look decidedly bland and dull from the outside, but neither the Hermit or the Chariot care. (Cancer/Virgo [sextile])

 

Ferrus Manus - Justice: Little in common, and make each other uncomfortable. (Virgo/Libra [semi-Sextile])

 

Vulkan - Strength: Little in common. Will probably avoid each other, and will quickly get on each other's nerves if forced to spend time together. (Leo/Virgo [semi-Sextile])

 

Sanguinius - The Hanged Man: While unlikely to come into contact much, understand each other on their own level and cooperate nicely. The Hermit may well be sceptical of the Hanged Man's moments of pure insight.

 

Mortarion - Death: Mutual understanding, based on withdrawal and depth. They will find a lot in common if they get to know each other, but stubborness over disgreements could sour things. (Virgo/Scorpio [sextile])

 

The Khan - Temperance: Tension. Under pressure from each other, both tend to withdraw rather than deal with each other head on. (Virgo/Sagittarius [Mutable Square])

 

Peturabo - The Devil: The least alike of the Hierophant-Hermit-Devil trio. Both can see potential in the other, but may also have reservations unless they get to know each other well. (Virgo/Capricorn [Earth Trine])

 

Angron - The Tower: The Hermit can focus the Tower better than most, but things rapidly deteriorate if he tries to bog the Tower down in the details of his plans. (Mars/Virgo)

 

Corax - The Star: Tension. Likely to get into intense intellectual debates that both sulk about afterwards. (Virgo/Aquarius [Quincunx Inconjunct])

 

Konrad Curze - The Moon: Both are withdrawn and have a tendancy towards self-sacrifice. However, the Hermit attempts to create structure while the Moon denies and destroys it. An understanding of each other can be achieved, but the relationship will be tense. (Virgo/Pisces [Opposition])

 

Rogal Dorn - The Sun: The Hermit's withdrawal is not easy for the Sun to deal with, and if the Sun appears too prideful the Hermit can turn quite critical. (Sol/Virgo)

 

Leman Russ - The Last Judgement: Unlikely to come into contact much, and will barely tolerate each other when they do. The Hermit will be baffled by the Last Judgement and constantly criticise his impulsiveness, lack of discipline, and everything else that makes up his personality. The Last Judgement will quickly have an explosive reaction to the Hermit's constant nagging, but just as quickly get over it, an attitude which the Hermit will not understand at all.

 

** Edit

 

This came from a full list of the 22 Tarot cards, matched up with 20 Primarchs, The Emperor and the Imperium. As to who originally created them, I am unsure.

 

 

 

This was posted in the DA forum by candleshoes and is linked to by jareddm very interesting.

[Warp Angel]

It is. Makes you wonder if it was conscious (which would take a deep understanding of Tarot) or coincidental...

[Commander Proteus]

Looking to Corax, we have to infer a bit, but find that he disliked Perturabo based on his chosen strategy. Corax thought it wasteful and detrimental, based on his lack of resources and personnel.

 

This is also a bit sketchy, but we can also guess that the primarchs present at the strategy council before attacking Istvaan were a bit haughty, and thought Corax was weaker, or not up to the task of subjugating worlds. I think Angron or Eidolon asked if Corax was not up to the task when he originally brought the system into the fold.

 

-Proteus

[2000AD]

Angron, IIRC, pretty much resented everyone, after The Emperor robbed him of his warriors demise with his gladiator chums.

 

Apart from Perturabo..... Angron's only chum by all accounts

[NemFX]

Ones that I know are canon:

 

Alpharius was closest to Horus, since he was pretty much the only primarch he met pre-heresy that didn't end in violence.

Fulgrim and Ferrus Manus, despite their weird friendly rivalry thing, are quite close.

 

 

Speculated:

Khan, Russ, and Vulkan, all have fairly similar cultures (all had similar trials against the Emperor too)

Angron and Corax had similar struggles before they were found, so have common grounds there.

 

People that probably would have fought if they'd actually spent a bunch of time around each other:

Fulgrim and Sanguius (who's prettier? fight.)

Dorn and Roboute (both are perfectionists when it comes to war)

[Ashur]

Ones that I know are canon:

 

Alpharius was closest to Horus, since he was pretty much the only primarch he met pre-heresy that didn't end in violence.

Fulgrim and Ferrus Manus, despite their weird friendly rivalry thing, are quite close.

 

 

Speculated:

Khan, Russ, and Vulkan, all have fairly similar cultures (all had similar trials against the Emperor too)

Angron and Corax had similar struggles before they were found, so have common grounds there.

 

People that probably would have fought if they'd actually spent a bunch of time around each other:

Fulgrim and Sanguius (who's prettier? fight.)

Dorn and Roboute (both are perfectionists when it comes to war)

 

The Khan had no trials against the emperor. According to IA, they both shared the same ideal of unification.

Those that had trials were Russ, Vulkan and Ferrus Mannus.

 

According to A Thousand Sons, Magnus, Sanguinius and Jaghatai created the librarian project. That gives them some commun ground perhaps.

[Conn Eremon]

The Khan had no trials against the emperor. According to IA, they both shared the same ideal of unification.

Those that had trials were Russ, Vulkan and Ferrus Mannus.

 

According to A Thousand Sons, Magnus, Sanguinius and Jaghatai created the librarian project. That gives them some commun ground perhaps.

 

Wasn't the Khan one of those at the Trial of Nykaea (or something like that) opposed to Magnus? I thought his Stormseers were more in line with the Space Wolf Rune Priests.

 

It'd give a whole new level of depth, having one of those Primarchs who first saw the use of pysker Marines with him, turn against him for abusing the power.

[Ashur]

The Khan had no trials against the emperor. According to IA, they both shared the same ideal of unification.

Those that had trials were Russ, Vulkan and Ferrus Mannus.

 

According to A Thousand Sons, Magnus, Sanguinius and Jaghatai created the librarian project. That gives them some commun ground perhaps.

 

Wasn't the Khan one of those at the Trial of Nykaea (or something like that) opposed to Magnus? I thought his Stormseers were more in line with the Space Wolf Rune Priests.

 

It'd give a whole new level of depth, having one of those Primarchs who first saw the use of pysker Marines with him, turn against him for abusing the power.

 

Jaghatai was not present. At least we didn't saw him. And his stormseer spoke in favour of Magnus along with eleven other librarians.

No matter what the subjet is, I always get to the same conclusion: WE NEED A WHITE SCARS HORUS HERESY NOVEL. NOW.

[Nova_Dew]

While this is entirely fan-created material, it is accurate to a scary degree and I will defend its value to the fandom.

 

http://menducia.atspace.com/primarchs/I.html

 

It ties each of the Primarchs to a Major Arcana of the Tarot and then uses the relationships between the Arcana to determine the primarch relationships. It is miraculous how accurate it is and even offers some interesting inference into the relationships the primarchs might have had with the two lost primarchs.

 

 

after a quick read through could one of the missing Primarchs be the Big E himself? and the legion being the Custodes? Big E

[Jim Shady]

No matter what the subjet is, I always get to the same conclusion: WE NEED A WHITE SCARS HORUS HERESY NOVEL. NOW.

 

Word to tha' Khan!

[Lord_Caerolion]

While this is entirely fan-created material, it is accurate to a scary degree and I will defend its value to the fandom.

 

http://menducia.atspace.com/primarchs/I.html

 

It ties each of the Primarchs to a Major Arcana of the Tarot and then uses the relationships between the Arcana to determine the primarch relationships. It is miraculous how accurate it is and even offers some interesting inference into the relationships the primarchs might have had with the two lost primarchs.

 

 

after a quick read through could one of the missing Primarchs be the Big E himself? and the legion being the Custodes? Big E

 

No. No he couldn't. For a start, every Primarch was found, and they had statues made of them. That's not exactly the sort of thing you can cover up. Secondly, the Emperor made the 20 Primarchs. So, unless he created himself, the Emperor isn't one of the Primarchs.

[Conn Eremon]

No matter what the subjet is, I always get to the same conclusion: WE NEED A WHITE SCARS HORUS HERESY NOVEL. NOW.

 

Word to tha' Khan!

 

Seconded. I'd love some Mongolian Heresy novels.

[Olis]

While this is entirely fan-created material, it is accurate to a scary degree and I will defend its value to the fandom.

 

http://menducia.atspace.com/primarchs/I.html

 

It ties each of the Primarchs to a Major Arcana of the Tarot and then uses the relationships between the Arcana to determine the primarch relationships. It is miraculous how accurate it is and even offers some interesting inference into the relationships the primarchs might have had with the two lost primarchs.

 

 

after a quick read through could one of the missing Primarchs be the Big E himself? and the legion being the Custodes? Big E

 

No. No he couldn't. For a start, every Primarch was found, and they had statues made of them. That's not exactly the sort of thing you can cover up. Secondly, the Emperor made the 20 Primarchs. So, unless he created himself, the Emperor isn't one of the Primarchs.

 

Maybe his real name is Phillip J. Fry... :)

[Nova_Dew]

While this is entirely fan-created material, it is accurate to a scary degree and I will defend its value to the fandom.

 

http://menducia.atspace.com/primarchs/I.html

 

It ties each of the Primarchs to a Major Arcana of the Tarot and then uses the relationships between the Arcana to determine the primarch relationships. It is miraculous how accurate it is and even offers some interesting inference into the relationships the primarchs might have had with the two lost primarchs.

 

 

after a quick read through could one of the missing Primarchs be the Big E himself? and the legion being the Custodes? Big E

 

No. No he couldn't. For a start, every Primarch was found, and they had statues made of them. That's not exactly the sort of thing you can cover up. Secondly, the Emperor made the 20 Primarchs. So, unless he created himself, the Emperor isn't one of the Primarchs.

Well in the older editions the Primarchs were flung through time and space so why couldn't he go back in time then create himself and the rest and put some one else in the place of a missing Primarch such as one of the rare mind and dream altering psykers? and it was only meant as something to think about as far as the tarrot cards went being the opposite of Magnus in his understanding the warp

[Olis]

All joking aside, the Emperor has been established as a millenia-old being from the old fluff. This is something I don't believe has been retconned (as of yet, at least). It's contradictory to imply he was the result of time-travel shenanigans and is a lost primarch. As Lord_Caerolion pointed out, all twenty of the Emperors 'sons' were found.

[Skaltak]

I had a quick look at the link posted about the primarchs and tarrot cards, it is a freaky comparison.

 

From what i have read over the years i have conected the following people in like/dislike relationships.

 

Friends:

Fulgrim and Ferrus Manus - 'Fulgrim':These to are good friends and make each other weapons/gifts before Fulgrim is possessed and decapitates his brother and friend.

Magnus and Lorgar - 'The First Heretic/A Thousand Sons': Im sure in one of these books Magnus is said to comfort and sooth Logar as they talk about the warp.

Lion El'Jonson and Perturabo - Now i cant remember what book it is in but at the end of one of the books the Lion takes command of some huge siege guns (later used to take down the palace walls on Terra) and gives them over to Perturabo. The 2 brothers are pictured on board a battle barge talking in good humour.

Vulkan and Ferrus Manus - 'Fulgrim': Im sure these to are said to be close in this book. When Fulgrim kills Feruus Vulkan goes nuts and makes a bee-line for him.

 

Not friends:

Logar and Guilliman - 'The First Heretic': Guilliman humiliates Logar and his legion with the Emperor.

Lion El'Jonson and Lemon Russ - 'The Lion and the Wolf': An awesome short story that shows the 2 brothers coming to blows after the defeate of a tyrant where Russ (i think) steals the glory from the Lion. The 2 have a fight thats goes on for days and destroys the palace they have taken. In the end Russ just laughs at the fight they are having taking it as one big joke but the Lion doesnt see the funny side and knocks him out with a 'sucker punch'. Dont think the get on after thiss point.

Dorn and Perturabo - These to strive to be the best siege lord and after the emperor asks Dorn to build the palace deffences on Terra Perturabo's dislike for Dorn is set in stone.

Magnus and Leman Russ - 'A Thousand Sons': Russ goes after Magnus and kicks his arse. lol. Russ doesnt trust Magnus from the word go and even though he sends his Wolf priest to help the Thousand Sons it was more to keep an eye on him and strick while the iron was hot.

 

Unsure:

Dorn and Curze - 'Lightning Tower': In this audio book im sure Dorn is taking about what he fears the most and takes about some of his brothers and his feeling towards them, im sure he talks about Curze and how the 2 were friends but he wouldnt want to face him in a battle?

Corax and Curze - In one of the books Curze and Corax come face to face on the in battle and Corax goes nuts and shows a dislike towards Curze after he mocks him. This could be a dislike due to Curze siding with Horus but i get the feeling it is deeper than that.

[Jareddm]

Well in the older editions the Primarchs were flung through time and space so why couldn't he go back in time then create himself and the rest and put some one else in the place of a missing Primarch such as one of the rare mind and dream altering psykers? and it was only meant as something to think about as far as the tarrot cards went being the opposite of Magnus in his understanding the warp

 

Well, if the Tarot Analysis is to be believed, Lorgar had an extremely positive relationship with one of the lost primarchs, and was the most hurt by that primarch's censure. This is confirmed in TFH. I can certainly understand where the description of the lost primarch sounds like the Emperor, but like all of the primarchs they each embodied an aspect of the Emperor. Perhaps this primarch embodied the Emperor's intuition and innate connection with the warp. Not to mention this line,

 

The High Priestess is ultimately the one who can communicate an understanding of the highest goals of the Fool to the rest of the system, individually and in ways they can each understand.

 

Makes me think the lost primarch knew the most about the Emperor's true plans. Where the Fool represents the Emperor

[Grimdarkness]

Lion El'Jonson and Lemon Russ - 'The Lion and the Wolf': An awesome short story that shows the 2 brothers coming to blows after the defeate of a tyrant where Russ (i think) steals the glory from the Lion. The 2 have a fight thats goes on for days and destroys the palace they have taken. In the end Russ just laughs at the fight they are having taking it as one big joke but the Lion doesnt see the funny side and knocks him out with a 'sucker punch'. Dont think the get on after thiss point.

 

Uhm no the tyrant calls russ a lap dog russ demands the right to kill said tyrant the lion not wanting to waste his weeks of recon says no. So well the wolfs and russ are fighting at the front gate the lion kills the tyrant and trows his body from the walls with there leader dead the army crumbles. Russ incensed marches into the DA camp and hits el,jonson they fight for a day and a night russ stops and see,s the humor in this the lion not so much and cold cocks him. when russ wakes the DA are gone.

 

In future the wolfs and the Dark Angel,s well fight to get back to terra. The lion well chafe because russ stops to aid loyal worlds. Russ well also ask the lion to kill him because they/he failed to return in time and save there father. IIRC

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Lion El'Jonson and Lemon Russ - 'The Lion and the Wolf': An awesome short story that shows the 2 brothers coming to blows after the defeate of a tyrant where Russ (i think) steals the glory from the Lion. The 2 have a fight thats goes on for days and destroys the palace they have taken. In the end Russ just laughs at the fight they are having taking it as one big joke but the Lion doesnt see the funny side and knocks him out with a 'sucker punch'. Dont think the get on after thiss point.

 

Uhm no the tyrant calls russ a lap dog russ demands the right to kill said tyrant the lion not wanting to waste his weeks of recon says no. So well the wolfs and russ are fighting at the front gate the lion kills the tyrant and trows his body from the walls with there leader dead the army crumbles. Russ incensed marches into the DA camp and hits el,jonson they fight for a day and a night russ stops and see,s the humor in this the lion not so much and cold cocks him. when russ wakes the DA are gone.

 

In future the wolfs and the Dark Angel,s well fight to get back to terra. The lion well chafe because russ stops to aid loyal worlds. Russ well also ask the lion to kill him because they/he failed to return in time and save there father. IIRC

 

and dont forget that alot of Wolves were lost when the DA left to do their strategy...it sounds like the Lion didnt share his plan with his ally, and his ally suffered for it.

 

WLK

[Skaltak]

Thats what i ment... LoL. Its been about 10+ yrs since i read the story.

[MadDoc]

and dont forget that alot of Wolves were lost when the DA left to do their strategy...it sounds like the Lion didnt share his plan with his ally, and his ally suffered for it.

 

WLK

Except that the story makes it clear that the Lion told Russ his plan, but Russ was too busy demanding he stand down so that he could satisfy his honour by killing the tyrant himself to listen. From memory, Russ' plan for taking the Fortress was always going to be a frontal assault, the Lion said that was a bad idea and that he had devised a better plan that wouldn't carry such a heavy butcher's bill and that he wouldn't abandon that plan and stand down just so Russ could sooth his bruised ego.