Battle Report: 1500 vs Lysander Mech

[bulley]

Got my new list to playtest out tonight, and got a very good look at it.

 

My list:

 

Libby - Lance/Shield - Combi Melta

 

Techmarine w/ Combimelta Jump pack

Techmarine w/ Combimelta Jump pack

 

RAS w/ MG/Hand Flamer - AssCan Razorback

RAS w/ MG/Hand Flamer - AssCan Razorback

RAS w/ MG - LasPlas Razorback

RAS w/ MG - LasPlas Razorback

 

Baal Predator w/ AssCan HB

Baal Predator w/ AssCan HB

 

 

Predator w/ AutoCan/HB

Predator w/ AutoCan/HB

 

Predator w/ AutoCan/HB

 

His List

 

Lysander

 

x7 Terms - x5 TH/SS x2 LC

Land Raider Crusader w/ EA / MM

 

x10 Marines - Plasma Can/Melta - Rhino

x10 Marines - Misile Launcher/Melta - Rhino

 

Predator Autocannon HB

Vindicator Shield

Vidicator

 

SETUP:

 

The table setup with a mini-road/building area in the middle of the board w/ 3 ruins. There was a scattering of hills/craters around the rest of the board.

 

Mission was KP

Setup was Spear Head

 

He wins 1st turn and takes the corner w/ the clear road to the more cluttered corner - forcing me to setup my tanks in quite a condensed area. I fail to seize.

 

He setups basically in as spear head with his raider flanked by 2 vindies and then the rhino's taking the rear. The predator goes off to the side.

 

I deploy with razors at the rear, and a double wall of AV 13 with the baals popping smoke.

 

TURN 1:

 

He buddles forward, 6" on his tanks and 12" on his raider. Pops smoke on everything.

 

I rearrange my wall and put the baals out to 1 side, and then put 1 dakka pred forward and the rest behind, popping smoke on one of the rear dakka's to tempt him into firing at a single target/assault where he cant get mutli assault on the next turn. I fired a good bit into his vindies and raiders. I managed to glance his raider twice but EA mitigated it (well Machine Spirit + EA).

 

TURN2:

Lysander and his cronnies get out. He moves his vindies up, 1 into cover on my right into a building, the other in the open. His predator imobs itself quite far back on a ruin, which blocked its LOS that turn. His rhinos hid away. Lysander assaults the predator I gave him, and explodes it. He loses 1 LC term to the blast.

 

I basically fan out here and send my entire army into his firing wise, and kill all his terms and do 1 wound to Lysander.That took all my firing.

 

TURN 3:

His vindies now go to work, and blow up a baal predator, 1 rhino squad moves upto one of the fanned out Autocannon preds to my north and melta's it to death. Lysander hops back in his ride and that fires at a razor but to no effect.

 

I try to return fire, he makes all his cover saves on the vindy in the ruins but I manage to destroy the weapon on the other vindy (out in the open) with the remaining baal. Everything else had little effect (x2 lascannons and assault cannon razors failed to do anything to the vindy all game).

 

TURN 4:

He now moves Lysander and his raider right up into my lines. He breaks open a tank in shooting w/ the libby in it, and weapon destroys the other autocannon pred's autocannon. I think at this stage he also wrecks the the 2nd baal.

 

I get the libby and melta out - I walk through terrain and get a 5 - I am about 1" short of 6" range, which is a shame. The libby fails to do anything with Lance either. I shoot at a couple of his tacticals in the open. The biggest thing for me this turn was my techmarines which came down w/ DOA and blew up the empty rhino hiding at the back and his imob'd predator. I thought they'd be nicely out of range of any real threat.

 

TURN 5:

He turns his 10 man tactical squad in the center of the board and fires at my techmarines and insta kills with a melta. Their rhino shoots its SB at 24" range and manages to kill the other (2+ does nothingggg). Lysander charges my Libby squad and kills 2 guys, but I do 1 wound with the libby and I hold.

 

I need to claw back KP's here. Due to Lysanders I1 I felt I could kill him before he swung. Or if he won I could shoot him down next turn. I again turn back attention to the vindies which are really ruining my day, but again do nothing, a melta squad manages to shake it with a 1., I shot at his tacticals in the open again and whittled off a couple.Again a really ineffectual turn. In combat Lysander manages to drop my libby and rest of my squad and pushes towards my melta squad that got out to try and hurt the vindicator. He charges but sheer weight of hits (I rolled a lot of 5's and 4's) and he takes his single remaining wound and dies, I consolidate into cover infront of the vindy.

 

TURN 6:

He now starts to back off a bit. He tries to get a few more shots on the razors, but without vindies he relies on melta + assault cannon off the land raider to shoot and does nothing.

 

I REALLY need to claw back some KP's now. I get a lot of squads out - the melta guns get out of 2 razors to take care of the land raider - they blow it up and lose 1 guy in the process (the blast hit pretty much everyone). The melta squad that shook the vindy now shoots and charges, destroying its weapon and imobalising it (or shaking it and imobing it). I manage to get 1 of his tactical squads down via lascannon/rapid plasma gun fire.

 

TURN 7:

Game goes on and he tries to put it away, 1 more KP and he has a garanteed win. He wants to shoot/assault my RAS squad in the open, he fires at them down to 1 guy, and they run about 7 inches, he has no more fire to do anything and cant assault - best result for me.

 

My guy rallies and I move him back, he joins another squad to try and fire them down to nothing with the help of a razorback with assault cannon. The two lasplas's try to take out the rhino in the back field and fail. 1 melta squad gets the vindy to a box but cant assault due to it having gotten out of a tank that turn.

 

Game Ends:

10 KP to 8 - A loss.

 

REACTION:

 

I've listed some of the initial mistakes down below, but the re-occuring theme was that I was not aggresive enough early on. I have x4 squads of melta guys that are GREAT at taking out tanks. He had 4 tanks that could hurt me, I had gotten rid of his deathstar by T2 pretty much and at that stage I should have just jumped him. Moved my razors 12" forward, deployed melta at rear armor and blasted to buggery his tanks - at worst I'd have shaken them. He had x2 squads of tactical marines to try and take them out - at worst I'd have gotten locked in combat with 2 squads and then counter charged and probably done enough to take each combat. I put to much faith in my shooting "going well" late game. But thats the part of learning the list.

 

I actually really liked the techmarines, but still not 100% on them.

 

Incidently - ANY OTHER mission - I'd have won very easy. He was down to x1 troops choice, vs my 3 (ok 1 had 1 guy) and in the end he had 1 boxed vindy, a razor and 6 guys, vs my 3 razors and 15 guys.

 

But heres a list of early game mistaks:

 

 

Mistake 1 T1: Really I should have tried my best to guess how far he could assault Lysander first turn and pull right out of that range and then whizz around to a flank. I'd probably have lost a tank in T3 but I think it may have led to more side shots / access to his rhinos.

Mistake 2 T1: Should have gone all out for the vindies to shake them. Easier target, and they cant do anything else. I just felt range was wrong, but I am sure it wasnt.

Mistake 3 T2: I shouldnt have fanned out so much against Lysander and his squad in T2. That much fire I will drop him to at least 2 or 3 terms inc Lysander, really I want him to stay in the open, hes a KP and I can fire at him to death with my own squads if I get enough AP1 out as well and then walk up and blow his raider up.

Mistake 4 T3: At this stage I Missed a chance to just push up 3 razor backs and deploy x3 melta guns right on top of his vindy, + lance they'd have at very least shaken it. This was what cost me the game. Not getting my meltas into play T3 was bad, waiting till T5/T6 was terrible.

Mistake 5 T4: I should have held back and just got the techmarines on a automatic in T5 and tried to get them to blow stuff up, if the game did continue I'd probably have been so far out of range that they can just run away - they ended up costing me 2 KP's despite taking 2, but in T5 I reckon they'd have been so far away from any return fire.

[Glendor]

nice report. I tend to forget about techmarines because they dont appeal to me but i have never tried them maybe i will.

[lords2001]

I do find that this list will do it hard in KP missions, my army is the same (mech wolves, 15-18 kps at 1500-2k). I also find it interesting about how effective the pred spam is - is it really effective for you? True, loads of anti infantry, but are you really concerned about that as much as the lesser AT power you are pulling? Just a thought etc.

[bulley]

That's the first game where I had trouble de necking. Pred spam has been fine up till then. Don't get me wrong turn 3 to 6 I couldnt glance or pen anything much to the surprise of people around me. 1 vindy and 1 raider out shot 3 preds and 4 razors.

 

My biggest mistake by far was not playing the mission till t4 or even 5. If I had gotten mass melta out to handle those tanks early I'd have been far better off. Once I eliminated he terms I should have jumped him.

 

I probably will go back to my auto las predators at the cost of 1 Dakka but freeing up the Baal and ass can razors for more infantry duties.

 

I don't overly need to be dramatic about this game. It's my first loss in a long time and at a close look it was my play not my list that did it.

 

I am contemplating melta/Flamer Speeders in stead of the techs.

[Kurb]

I am contemplating melta/Flamer Speeders in stead of the techs.

 

That would probably work well.

[bulley]

I ran them the previous couple of games while I was waiting for the parts to convert the combi melta's. One example of their potency is knocking out a wych squad w/ the flamers and then hitting the SC (non Leilith one) with the MM to just instant death her.

 

Its pretty effective - there are draw backs.

 

At 1750 - not that I play it often, they get dropped first to make way for a 3rd Baal.

 

Speeders would be squadron'd - meaning get taken out a bit easier which is a pain.

 

Attack bikes are another option, but I am even less keen on those - though I do like the idea of I can ram a T5 base w/ 2 wounds in to road block / tarpit some stuff.

 

---

 

I've done a fair whack of thought about the game - and basically as above identified the major problems, which really arent the list, just my failure to search for KP's before T4 really. I played as if it was just a game I needed to establish control to win, but thats just the rust of the game coming back in, and my severe disappointment with having a KP game for my tester game with the techmarines. Fully confident now running that game back, or a similar game, I'll not repeat those mistakes.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You can't fire the fire the flamer at the wyches then shoot the SC with the MM. All shooting from one unit occurs at the same time, so your opponent should have been able to put a wound from the flamer on the SC and a wound from the MM on a wyche. That was really wrong. :(

 

G

[bulley]

Yup I know that Black Orange.

 

It was just a quick comment about what a speeder can do, thats not actually how it went down in the game. It was a combination of a bit more (the raider exploding for E.G) 1 unit speeder flamer/mm taking out a lot and then the 2nd finishing off the job by simply firing the MM and instant deathing the final model.

 

Didn't think people would "check up" on that just because I put in a comment about what I am thinking about running. However in my list where I do want to run 2 Baals - I am forced to wound allocate because they are squadroned, which is why I mentioned above "downside is they are squadroned" - which not only stops this but also makes them a bit easier to kill.

 

Thought it was a bit obvious what had been done, but obviously not :/

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It was not obvious. Anyways better luck next time.

 

G :cuss

[bulley]

It was not obvious. Anyways better luck next time.

 

G :)

 

Sorry mate, I just assumed that people would just look at it and realise, guess its not the clearest. But bit hurt that you think I don't know basic rules lol, a little part of me died inside Orange, and its your fault... No worries easy mistake to make on both our parts, just need to be a fraction clearer (E.G 2 speeders, 1 decimates the squad, other cleans up).

 

As for the game, no worries. I've played the guy a few times with his various lists and as I said this loss is on me, he was bound to get 1 back some time, but at least I can correct my mistakes, and actually can identify them clearly.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

No problem bro. You are a master of the mech. :) Sometimes we just take it for granted that what we say we will be clearly be interpreted by our audience. No biggie.

 

Anyways it's good to lose now and then since it forces us to re evaluate our tactics. I look forward to your next batrep.

 

G :D

[bulley]

I totally agree, nothing highlights in your tactics/play like a loss.

 

I've changed up my list a fraction, back to autolas on the predators bar one, and added back in the SP instead of the techmarine. Despite my lack of power weapons it does give me a force multiplier and another melta body when I get out of a tank. The autolas are great tank suppressors but also there's a lot of terms in my LGS and around my circuit and I do feel the lack of AP2 at 1500.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Give them hell.

 

G ;)

[Auretious Taak]

The weakness in the force was the techmarines. Without a servo arm iirc they can't fix stuff and if so, it's only on a 6+. As it stands, they are not Independent Characters either so cannot join your units...and the cost of them for a single melta shot...yeah, points better spent elsewhere.