Glendor Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Today i helped a player that has always had a hard time vs. me and my friend. I decided to help him build a list and now that i am looking at what i gave him i dont know how to counteract it. We have a tourny coming up and i will face him at somepoint and am a little worried. Heres the list Hive Tyrant tyrant guard x2 Zoan Zoan Hive guard x2 Tyranid warriors x3 pair of boneswords 2x 17 termaguants Trygon What do i do! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient god Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 God, I hate Hive Guard. Your assault and tactical marines should be able to handle the small gribblies. And a Vindicator or two can go a long way when it comes to the mid-sized creatures. Which leaves the big heavy hitters. I don't have experience with VV and/or storm shield units in general but this seems like a case for them. Hammer the big beasties and bring storm shields to survive until the job is done. Very basic but that's where I'm at as a gamer. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2591519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Missile launcher devs and, honor guard with plasma guns. Awsome for taking out nids. Not to mention they will be usefull agaisnt other races you face as well! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2591578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Really need to see your current list before I can make any helpful suggestions. G :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2591587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lords2001 Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Honestly? Depends on what army list you run. Mech BA? Baal Predators can do good things for you, as can Vindicators. DOA? I would think about starting on the board, having a libby or 2 with sanguine sword and some priests tacked onto either a DC or a Assault squad running about trying to instagib the big beasties. Mephiston could do some damage, handled well. Especially at I7, S10. You can out assault him, you just need to be either faster with weight of S5 FC attacks from multiple squads and the addition of power fists etc, or outmuscle with a heavy hitting force - assault terminators with priest, death company, vanguard veterans, that sort of thing. In fact, this is one of the few armies I would be interested in cracking out the stormravens as well - send them in to hit the Hive Guard, after that, you can fly around forever without a care. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2591598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 that list is also really slow... kill the throaps and theres little ranged stuff to hit your tanks... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2591760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cptphoenixck Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Why has no one suggested Sternguard.... my usual opponent plays tyranids and you get more bang for your buck with 10 SV than you can with any other unit...... on any of the mid to large gribblies they'll wound on 2+ including the trygon! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2591972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Vindicators are the shootist thing ever, who doesn't love Strength 10, AP 2, Large blast? In your case though, maybe a dreadnought with Missile Launcher and Lascannon to thwack the trygon/hive tyrant, and a 10 strong squad of devastators /w lascannons to get rid of the zoans and warriors and assist the dread. I don't have a 5th Ed Codex (only DA one and 4th), but the land raider redeemer/crusader sounds very good to kill the Gaunts and take the aggro off your dread and devs. Of course, I don't know how many points you have. And besides that, I've only played 2-3 games, and have failed utterly at them. And if you're playing with Deep strike that changes the game a lot. But in theory... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2592015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 It looks like pretty much no outflanking... so I agree that ML devastators (2 squads) would certainly work great. This is also an instance where the FSC Baal could really shine. I've also had success using Land Speeders with 2 MM, keeping them 19-23" away, and chipping away at the tyrant guard so the Tyrant can no longer claim cover. Remember the Tyrant alone, cannot claim cover from other units, but when he is attached to a unit of tyrant guard (whom are the majority) he can. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2592038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gustmic Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 If you play with an infantry-based army (jump packs are essential), you can often set up so as to charge them and receive that necessary S5, I5 first turn. In doing so, you need to use the rule of multiple combat by charging several enemy units at the same time by linking their MCs together with their Termagants if possible. As you kill off the Termagants the result should be that their 3+ save MCs will have to take a huge number of saves. What else? Any T4 units are great to kill of with S8 weaponry (Devs or Meltas). /gustmic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2592043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glendor Posted December 17, 2010 Author Share Posted December 17, 2010 This is only 1000 points and i want a list that can hnadle other things as well and i think a stormraven is too much of an investment at that points. Though if you have had success at this level please tell me. Here is one of my thoughts Meph Talons dread 3x units of ras in asscan razors that leaves a bit of space cant say right now i am at school without the dex THanks for the replies so far. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2592067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Well the 4ML devastator squad is pretty cheap, and very useful. The only time I'd advise against it is when the Nids have lots of outflankers... which seems to not be the case here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2592075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly_bear Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 2x 10man sterngaurd squads in drop pods, 5x combi flamers.......with a supporting unit of 5/10 man assault termie squad....dakka preds....vindis....redeemers.....deve squads with 4x H.bolters....also whirlwinds are usefull.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2592079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DextrousWombat Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Trygons are just Epistolary bait, sanguine sword and force weapon, sure you'll die but its worth the trade off IMO, unless you get a priests furious chargeand then your going first - in which case, bingo. small gribblies are only worth the attention of tactical or assault squads, the middle sized beasties die to instant death so think vindicator, rockets, a dreadnought will tear them up too. The Hive Tyrant is a different beast altogether,will maybe need the attention of quite a sizable portion of your army so let him walk towards you while you deal with some of the other things. -Petey Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2592090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 I've also had success using Land Speeders with 2 MM, keeping them 19-23" away, and chipping away at the tyrant guard so the Tyrant can no longer claim cover. Remember the Tyrant alone, cannot claim cover from other units, but when he is attached to a unit of tyrant guard (whom are the majority) he can. what? since when? mcs dont get sover saves if the intervening units are swarms, thats it. unless ive missed something... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2592238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 I've also had success using Land Speeders with 2 MM, keeping them 19-23" away, and chipping away at the tyrant guard so the Tyrant can no longer claim cover. Remember the Tyrant alone, cannot claim cover from other units, but when he is attached to a unit of tyrant guard (whom are the majority) he can. what? since when? mcs dont get sover saves if the intervening units are swarms, thats it. unless ive missed something... The Hive Tyrant, and the Swarmlord for that matter, are not IC's... so you cannot individually target them. It's a special rule that allows Nid players to join the Tyrant with the Tyrant guard, specifically for this reason. You can only target the unit (again not an IC) and the majority of the unit is the 2 or 3 or Tyrant Guard... so if they are in cover, the 'unit' is in cover. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2592272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 i do know that, i do play nids. i dont see that explaining why they cant get a coversave from intervening normal sized units... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2592331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glendor Posted December 17, 2010 Author Share Posted December 17, 2010 Otherwise MCs must be 50% in cover Good thoughts here but remember it is 1000 points!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2592341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 If you want to run a dread with talons the best way to deliver it is in a Stormraven. When I first started toying around with the Stormraven I used a rhino as a proxy and played it that my opponents could always see it with no intervening terrain to block LOS. I think a heavy jump infantry versus Nidz is the best way to go. In my opinion the Sanguinor is a better choice over Mephiston versus Nidz since the Sanguinor is not affected by Shadows in the Warp. Hive Guard are very strong versus AV11. G :woot: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2592483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 Otherwise MCs must be 50% in cover yes but the intervening models cover save isnt likewise affected Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2592651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 + a tyrant or swarm lord+ guard is not a MC, but a unit . class changes so do cover rules. Of course that does bring us to 5 guants having problems [always model guants jumping in to air. true los ftw ] with giving cover to a tyrant , but not to a tyrant and two or three big ass guards. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2592729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 Otherwise MCs must be 50% in cover yes but the intervening models cover save isnt likewise affected Not exactly sure what you are trying to say here... but a Tyrant alone, or any MC for that matter, could not claim cover from an intervening unit or area terrain etc... it must be 50% obscured. However as a unit, the majority of which are not MC's... he can claim cover from intervening units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2593127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corby Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 Today i helped a player that has always had a hard time vs. me and my friend. I decided to help him build a list and now that i am looking at what i gave him i dont know how to counteract it. We have a tourny coming up and i will face him at somepoint and am a little worried. Heres the list Hive Tyrant tyrant guard x2 Zoan Zoan Hive guard x2 Tyranid warriors x3 pair of boneswords 2x 17 termaguants Trygon What do i do! Firstly , this list has a lot of serious serious flaws. That you can exploit. Flaw 1 : Next to no dedicated Anti Tank capabilities. 2 Zoanthorpes and 2 hive guard is all this list has. Giving it next to no ability to cope with Mech. Secondly. The range of those Guns is terrible. 24" range is nothing to be scared of. Nids need long range anti tank or fast units to deal with Mech and manvourability that mech offers , this list has none of that. Solution: Use long ranged firepower to eradicate his Hive guard , and then use your superior manvourability that Ba have to pick of stragglers and monstrous creatures. Remember you can dictate the terms of engagement. As you're the fast sider. Flaw 2: No speed. This list is very very slow. You can run cirlces around him. His has to march straight into the teeth of your guns to bring the majority of his army into play. Solution: Blocking and screening once the Hive guard are dead is good. Overall this isn't a very difficult list to beat. Also in relation to Trygons are just Epistolary bait, sanguine sword and force weapon, sure you'll die but its worth the trade off IMO, unless you get a priests furious chargeand then your going first - in which case, bingo. small gribblies are only worth the attention of tactical or assault squads, the middle sized beasties die to instant death so think vindicator, rockets, a dreadnought will tear them up too. The Hive Tyrant is a different beast altogether,will maybe need the attention of quite a sizable portion of your army so let him walk towards you while you deal with some of the other things I wouldn't agree with this. The librarian will be suffering from shadow of the warp ( Physic tests on 3d6). making it difficult to land both powers. Edit :I fail at reading. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2593382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 rm...you mean 4... 5 ith furious chare which most nids can buy... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2593393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corby Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 rm...you mean 4... 5 ith furious chare which most nids can buy... Stupid me.......I need glasses. Thought he was on about the tervigon. /cry. I apologise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/217321-tyranids/#findComment-2593417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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