Assassin Idea

[number6]

@BOB, your experiences makes me sad. :D The fact that people wouldn't know what to do about combating some units or lists is a failure of both imagination and list-building. Everybody talks about building a balanced, take-all-comers list ... but perhaps fewer succeed at that than I imagined. I mean, it's one thing to lose to an army build you've never seen before. But your list should be balanced enough -- that is, capable of dealing with all the rules the game has available in play -- that you can learn to use it to effectively combat unusual or rarely seen armies.

 

Taking your Ork "dread bash list", the fact that your local playerbase hadn't seen it just shouldn't have mattered. The fact is, many armies have walkers, and many armies have the ability to spam vehicles -- including walkers -- on the table. A truly balanced list would have the tools necessary to deal with vehicles no matter what form they take or the numbers they show up in. Learning to defeat ork "dread bash" is then simply a matter of refining your technique with your army list built of useful little utility units.

 

It's the approach to the game that I'm getting at here. An approach that is as far removed from Inquisitor =D='s example as it is possible to be. I think this is quite important, actually, and believe it is something more players should wrap their heads around.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Agreed; although I think that its not nesscesarily a failure to try and build an all comers approach but a misunderstanding of its application. In my experience no one is afraid of the Dread bash because they think they can deal with it between their anti tank, mid strength weapons that would normally deal with heavy infantry and grenades/rending/etc. What people dont realize is that all these methods rely rolling a lot of high numbers. So although they can deal with the extra tank here or there when Im laying down 15+ they just dont have the weight of anti tank they thought they had. A similar thought to what I expect the players face when trying to deal with a land raider like the OP's "Hey I got a pair of lascannons now I can deal with land raiders!" When it really requires abit of luck or a whole bunch of lascannons.

[the jeske]

how does a an army with kille kans and dreads make a problem for SW and IG , specialy as the kans are runing around in squadrons . IG players wouldnt even have to rebuild his army . same with SW 15 RL per turn , thats even with cover +4 around 4 rolls to check what happens to the kans each turn , without any shoting from his GH, RP , razors[if he uses any] etc.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

You know Jeske you are right. Space Wolves and Guard always beat everything all the time as far as I know. Although I havent ever seen them go one on one. Perhaps the universe would implode as it tried to figure out which armies win factor took precedence.

[number6]

Play nice, gentlemen. 'Tis Christmas, after all. I prefer to keep my Santa hat on for as long as possible....

[Inquisitor =D=]

I know what ya mean No.6. Gotta keep positive after all.

 

Merry chrismas everybody!

 

=]D[=

[the jeske]

You know Jeske you are right. Space Wolves and Guard always beat everything all the time as far as I know. Although I havent ever seen them go one on one. Perhaps the universe would implode as it tried to figure out which armies win factor took precedence.

 

am just wondering how this works or how this list could work and how is it possible that people [your own words] took so much time to understand the list . Even If you play with 9 kans and dreads [probably with meks to move them around FoC] . they are still low armor and the kans still run around in squadrons . Even with fields . In normal games an IG will still have a lot of str 5-6 weapons[chimeras] vendettas and auto canons [on the troops , unless they go vets then they spam melta] , and that is a basic list one tests his army against , no specials tacs or anything . And even against that a dread/kan list would suffer.

Am a gamer I want to understand the game in as many perspectives as possible , am not crazy enough to think I know everything about the game , so I ask how does it work , because I dont see it work . Is it because of scenarios , terraint , class of players , army lists played , is it because the lists are 2500 or more [as I dont have much expiriance there as few tournaments are higher then 2250 here]. Or maybe what you say is no sarcasm and there actualy arent any IG or SW [which I find odd to say the least].

 

Tis Christmas, after all.

:huh: christmas is in 2 weeks .

[Inquisitor =D=]

... OK... I had to re-read your post about four times to get a general understanding of what you wrote. You may want to re-read your posts before you post it.

 

That aside, a lot rides on perception. If you can intimidate your opponent or just throw them off their groove you can take the game with that alone. For example I recently hopped back into 40k as the ONLY Daemonhunter player in 6 years (and that last player was me!). When I threw down with the "Silvery Boiz" it caught people so off-guard I actually won a few games! If my first game hadn't seen me slaughtered against nids I could have placed.

 

Numbers aren't everything and neither are army lists.

 

And now on to my final point in this thread, It has moved far and beyond its original purpose and I see little reason to continue it. Thank you all for your thoughts. Especially you Lady Inquisitor. Good night.

 

=]D[=

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Theres plenty of guard but not many that mech up the way most competative players do. Theres a few space wolves but again not generally in the typical competative style. Not to say I havent faced these lists of good oponents. But something that a good dread bash brings to the table is more then just walkers.

 

I run anywhere between 7-11 Walkers in a given game. With between 15-20 Vehicles. My typical points level is 1500. Where I will run something like a big mek, a warboss, some lootas, some Mega Armoured Nobz as troops in a battlewagon, 9 Kanz, a Dread, a squad of grots and the rest is filled in with Rokkit Buggies.

 

Against guard you can castle in around the Battlewagon while you still put down range alot of anti tank firepower. because the Kanz can start cracking open Chimeras too.

 

Something the Dread bash does is force your opponent to roll 6s. If your opponent can roll 6s then you're in trouble and it really is a world of hurt. If they cant manage to bust out those 6s (and typically they need them in a row) then you start to grind them down. The thing that scares me most is a power fist. Where one guy can take out 2-3 Kanz in one go on just a slightly good roll. That of course is just my experience with the Dread bash. But its where I see alot of Dread Bash lists turn wrong is where they start busting out 9 kanz 2 dreadz and then a whack load of boys. It just doesnt give the Dreads the support they need (Speed and Range anti Tank)

 

Edit: Sorry #6 I just realized this probably would have been better as just a PM. Since its not so Ordos related. @_@ I hope Im not causing too much trouble?

[Inquisitor Fox]

Edit: Sorry #6 I just realized this probably would have been better as just a PM. Since its not so Ordos related. @_@ I hope Im not causing too much trouble?

Since it's a direct reply to previous posts from multiple authors, and a very good example of how the "Almighty internet perceived meta-game" often does NOT apply to local scenes, I think we're okay.

 

Lets just not delve into Ork tactics or armylist construction, as that definately isn't Kosher :huh: Anyone who wants to reply about Bob's army post specifically please keep it at PMs.

 

Otherwise, case closed, move along with your regularly scheduled program :P

[Lord Cuthbert]

IMO, DCA's had their hey day in 4th Ed. En masse DCA's that could clear a 'kill zone' made for rough going against anything T 4 or less. Just taking 6 DCAs and a Eversor would clear mobs of Orks and companies of Guard.

 

Under 5th Ed. they are much harder to utilize to the fullest. As previously posted, each DCA is a kill point and that alone is good reason not to field them. Each operate independently and will require a separate unit to shoot them down (sans multi-tracker Tau and Long Fangs), but their T 3 and 5+ invuln pretty much mean that every basic troop choice and most vehicles can blast them away at leisure. Even in 4+ cover they are likely toast.

 

Again, IMO, I would hold back on these guys until the new Codex is released. Word has it that they will be lumped into a new 'retinue' build similar to that of the DE Archon Court. I would think that they would be able to maintain their killiness but have the added benefit of retinue rules to provide better survivability.

 

As for melta squads, just go 5 man IST with 2 meltas in a Smoking Rhino. Both cheap and effective and something that 4 units will concern anyone they face. Back that up with GKs in a LRC and a few GK Termies and you are in business.

[Inquisitor =D=]

... I don't mean to be seem rude Cuthbert, but the discussion closed some time ago...

 

Thank you for your input though.

 

=]D[=