Bikes, Jet Packs, or Speeders?

[Ravenfeld]

First off I am not a huge fast attack fan and I tend to focus more on heavy/elite choices in the majority of my armies, however I was looking through the Codices (SW and SM) and I got to thinking about my Iron hands and how some fast attack might not hurt. Naturally I am leaning towards Speeders or Bikes, but I wanted to know what people prefer as a competitive choice?

 

I have heard arguments for each of the three choices but I want to hear what YOU think is best and why!

 

Thanks in advance!

[Brother Captain Josef]

For me speeders. It makes sense when you consider the rest of my army is mech. The missile launcher ones are my favourite as this means they can sit at range and require dedicated anti tank to knock out ("blah blah bolt pistol blah blah" - well get within 12 of it then smartass...). The theory behind this is to try and swamp my opponents anti vehicle weapons (mid/high strength - long range.)

 

If you were running an infantry heavy force then bikes would make a nice synergy for similar reasons imo.

 

Hope this helps :)

[Jackelope King]

Fast Attack slots provide some amazing firepower. Especially in Codex: Space Marines, it's where we get our Fast Melta, which is really critical at and above 1750 points. This is what compliments modern 5e mobile armies so well, especially Power Armored armies.

 

Speeders, 90% of the time. MM/HF is golden. So too is the Typhoon configuration. The former kill heavy armor and exposed infantry like a pro, while the latter slaughter provide nice ranged firepower from turn 1.

 

Bikers are great as Troops, but they don't quite get you the bang for your buck that Speeders do. Attack Bikes are unfortunately vulnerable to everpresent krak missiles and equivalents, while Speeders get a little more durability there. Attack Bikes are amazing in a squad of Biker Troops, though.

 

Assault Marines in Codex: Space Marines are just lacking. They deal with light infantry, but we're not hurting for that in Codex: Space Marines. There are better, more effective means for that. Vanguard Marines are on the other end: they can be tooled up to kill almost everything, but their price-tag for that becomes obscene. We just don't do it well. Codex: Blood Angels is the place to go for good jumpers.

[spartan249]

I choose Typhoon land speeders as my weapon of choice. Quick movement, Armor Value, Ignores terrain, fun stuff.

 

I see the merits of Attack Bikes: Smaller profile, less vulnerability when moving quickly, cheaper. However, they're vulnerable to small arms fire, and they don't have as much flexibility as the speeders.

[Wildfire]

In my opinion, multi-melta attack bikes are the best anti-tank in the game. But just because something is great, doesn't mean it's necessarily going to fit in every list. How about giving us an idea of what the rest of your list looks like?

[Ravenfeld]

My current list actually has no fast attack at all, this post is just to get a general feel of what people prefer and why then I can go ahead and come to my own conclusions based on the amassed information. To be honest I am leaning towards either Speeders or Bikes myself, didn't wanna omit Assault Squads just in case. Truth be told I will probably be making my own chapter based on the BA down the road so I will get plenty of jet packs there right?

 

That leaves us with Speeders and Bikes, I can safely justify both with the Iron hands theme and both are highly effective at what they do. The thing is that my current list lacks anti-vehicle (That is to say Anti-AV14) elements and I am just looking for ways to tackle that if it becomes a glaring issue, call it being pro-active. I love my list, don't get me wrong, but I wanna be prepared to cover all my bases. That being said, I know both units can provide some anti-vehicle glory so what is it you like about one or the other, or both!

 

Thanks!

[spartan249]

Do the melta speeders. Ignoring terrain and having high resistance to small arms is worth the 10 extra points in my book.

[Warp Angel]

The answer to your question is: YES.

 

Fast attack gives you maneuver and deployment options that other slots just can't'.

 

It allows you to concentrate the right firepower on the right target.

 

That said, I prefer bikes (in troop slots) and speeders as my preferences. Like Jackalope King said, the vanilla assault marines are... lacking.

 

See the fast attack link in my sig for a more detailed assessment.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

When it comes to fast melta, do people usually take their speeders as single blocks and leave the other slots free for other things (or just grouping out of choice), or do you prefer to spread them out and have as many individual meltas as possible?

[breng77]

Both melta speeders, and Melta Attack bikes have their advantages. I prefer attackbikes for this roll as they are easier to hide (behind other tanks or cover) which makes them very useful to sneak up on bigger vehicles.

[Jackelope King]

When it comes to fast melta, do people usually take their speeders as single blocks and leave the other slots free for other things (or just grouping out of choice), or do you prefer to spread them out and have as many individual meltas as possible?

In general, you want speeders separate, not in a squadron (aside from more threats being better, vulnerability to glancing hits that comes from the squadron rules is painful). However, this isn't an absolute at all. Typhoons, for instance, want for one-speeder squadrons more than MM/HF speeders. In my Mech list, I run 2x Typhoons, each in its own squadron, and then a pair of MM/HF speeders in one squadron, while I run 3x MM/HF Speeders, each in their own squadron, in my Biker list.

 

So yeah, I'd prefer to have my speeders in their own squadrons. More threats = more gooder. But take advantage of the squadron rules when you have to max out each Force Organization Chart slot (especially true at and above 2000 points).

[DarkGuard]

Jackelope King, do you field the two MM/HF in one squadron because the Typhoons take priority in having their own squadrons? Or do you find MM/HF in a squadron of two to be more effective than in individual squadrons?

 

I only ask because I've just built and painted a couple to take over what my attack bikes couldn't do, fast melta, and hopefully effective melta. I always used the bikes in a squad of two, as in my experience one multi-melta would near enough always fail to the job, while a couple were more likely to do the damage. So I do have the Fast Attack slots to run them separately, but I feel that just the one melta and one flamer wouldn't be so powerful on its own, but it would cause more damage in a squadron. Also, when you're operating at such close ranges you want to be moving constantly, and the squadron rules allow that, even if you might loose an immobile Speeder doing that.

[waaanial00]

I like having my melta speeders in squadrons rather than separately. Being mobile is why I take them, if I cant shoot but can move I am still drawing fire from the enemy. If I am imobilised temporary or permenantly then I am as good as dead anyway.

 

Generally speaking I prefer the ability to place damage within a squadron and the fact that they dont block LOS within the unit over the disadvantage of being killed if imobile.

 

I appreciate this means sometimes I have to dedicate more firepower than necessary to achieve something, however with my luck its generally enough firepower rather than too much.

 

It does kind of mean firepower has a focal point but that doesnt worry me too much.

[Jackelope King]

Jackelope King, do you field the two MM/HF in one squadron because the Typhoons take priority in having their own squadrons? Or do you find MM/HF in a squadron of two to be more effective than in individual squadrons?

 

I only ask because I've just built and painted a couple to take over what my attack bikes couldn't do, fast melta, and hopefully effective melta. I always used the bikes in a squad of two, as in my experience one multi-melta would near enough always fail to the job, while a couple were more likely to do the damage. So I do have the Fast Attack slots to run them separately, but I feel that just the one melta and one flamer wouldn't be so powerful on its own, but it would cause more damage in a squadron. Also, when you're operating at such close ranges you want to be moving constantly, and the squadron rules allow that, even if you might loose an immobile Speeder doing that.

The Typhoons take priority on being in their own squadrons for two main reasons. First and foremost, Typhoons are still just speeders. Poor AV. Minimize their apparent threat profile by splitting the squadron up and allowing you to use redundancy more to your advantage. Second, Typhoons are wonderful fire suppression platforms, firing two krak missiles at a time gives each volley a fair chance at shaking or even stunning an enemy vehicle. The more enemy vehicles you can drop suppressing fire on, the better. See my discussion on the Tenet of Interference.

 

MM/HF speeders need the added durability and fire suppression ability less than the Typhoons. The real reason, though, is that they gain more by Deep Striking, and you want them both to come in together when they do Deep Strike and either nuke a tank or scorch some light infantry. Typhoons don't benefit from Deep Striking this way, and this is really the only time that you need to be worried about the firepower of a squadron, as you put it.