Is the Landraider worth it?

[Thaslof Icefang]

Hello Brothers,

 

I just started playing Space Wolves a month or two ago and must say that I'm having a blast. The fluff is great and the dogs are really fun on the table.

 

I played in a late night(or way too early in the morning) warhammer trifecta yesterday and fielded my landraider for the first time with a unit of GH's inside along with my Wolf Lord (storm shield and frost weapon). Overall, the unit did some cool things. The lascannon took out a chaos vidicator and a daemon prince in my first game and popped some dreadnoughts and a predator in the third against vanilla marines. My lord single handedly took down the same daemon prince in my second game and the unit did manage to chew through some enemies.

 

My problem with the landraider is that I find because everything is focused on it my unit inside never really gets to be used to its fulll potential. I'm just wondering if it would maybe be a better idea to drop pod them in? That way I could free up over 200 points and a heavy slot. What are everyone's suggestions for this unit and vehicle?

 

Rest of my list I used last night: Wolf Priest with GH in rhino, GH w plasma, land speeder typhoon, 5 sky claws(never again), dreadnought, anti infantry long fangs, heavy hitting long fangs.

[Hfran Morkai]

The problem is target priority, with one Land Raider on the table the most serious firepower will be directed at it, which can be a good thing as it leaves lighter vehicles ignored by the big guns making them more survivable. It's commonly accepted that vehicles work better in pairs due to Lanchester's square principle (I believe). One Land Raider only has the firepower and durability of one Land Raider, whereas two has twice as much firepower and survivability, meaning they can kill twice as much and weather more (Does your opponent concentrate fire or split his forces in order to take on two high value targets?).

 

According to the principle (not sure if the name is right, but the theory is pretty nifty) Two tanks are "worth" four.

 

So Land Raiders are worth it, in my own opinion, as distractions or key players in a list if used in pairs, There are times when a single Land Raider can perform admirably but they are very good targets. Of course this is subjective and my opinion.

 

Also, what don't you like about the Skyclaws? I'd suggest making them a larger unit and giving them a leash, preferably a Wolf Priest for the unit buff, you might change your mind. ^_^

[Elahir]

I use to include one anytime I build a list over 1000 points. The problem with the basic LC LR is that it is an assault vehicle with weapons best used at long range to avoid meltas. If I want to deliver a CC unit I usually prefer a redeemer or a Crusader that also allow to carry bigger units.

 

It's best used when there are two enemy units close. I use the LRR to hit one of them and block the LOS while my CC unit takes care of the other one.

[wolfpack]

I try to include a LRC/R and an LR in my lists when points allow...are they worth it...YOU BET YER ARSE...besides the obvious things like firepower, shooty magnetics, transport capacities and so on...they are good for blocking opponents LoS and even causing a certain player fear factor...psychological warfare is just as important as shooting in any battle...and less experienced players and even some mid experience players tend to go all out against them when they see these armored mammoths on the battlefield...which tends to get your other units where you want them without much damage...

 

More experienced players will tend to assign or have included in their list units meant to deal with them...but even then you will have that transport capacity to deal with anything that gets too close to threaten your LR...especially if they disembark to the front and block LoS to your tank allowing it time to move to a better vantage to get some of it's own shooty goodness off on your opponent... :rolleyes:

[Ullr Direfang]

one down side to useing a drop pod would be: your WL will be a sitting duck for a turn. If you have more then one pod you could use that to your advantage to have a unit that will hopefully draw attention or arrive in a different turn.

[WG Vrox]

For a Space Wolf Force if you want to play with IC models in TDA it really is the only option, sure you can go DP, but there is nothing like the ability to pick your targets with an almost assured assault chance vs. coming in and having to wait a turn allowing your opponent to react and move critical pieces.

 

I have been running a solo LRC for quite some time and have had pretty good success. A RP inside with Storm is nice to have and EA with MM is a must.

 

Vrox

[Inquisitor Orion]

I use a single LRC with 10 GH (2xmeltas, pw, Mark) along with Arjac. I use it as Arjac's deticated transport so it doese not use up a slot. It has done really well for me. It is literaly my hammer.

[WG Vrox]

use a single LRC with 10 GH (2xmeltas, pw, Mark) along with Arjac. I use it as Arjac's deticated transport so it doese not use up a slot. It has done really well for me. It is literaly my hammer.

 

FYI: After a bit of unresolved debate in a different thread, you will want to check with your opponent or organizer to find out if your GH unit can start the game inside a dedicated transport that uses the WG's slot.

[Inquisitor Orion]

I do ask and have not had a problem.

[Thaslof Icefang]

Thanks for all of your input guys. I think I'm going to try a couple of lists with that unit in a rhino just to free up the points and heavy slot. After a few games I should know what option is best with my tactics. Afterall, I have only played five games with the wolves.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

The problem for me is that a normal LR pulls you in two directions - it's got great long range punch, but is a troop carrier that you can assault out of. If you kept it still and use all its weapons then then it's value as an assault vehicle is wasted and versa versa.

 

The LRC and LRR at least force you to use it as an assault vehicle (and have greater capacity).

 

All varients are a fire magnet and unlike other fire magnets such as TWC, if penetrated then it could end up being a very expensive loss in any force of 1500 pts or less.

 

I've run a Logan Wing list with two at 1500 and both survived - probably due to my opponent's indecision at which one to focus on ;)

 

In short, I generally prefer lots of GH packs with Dread/Vindicator support and some LS and save the LRs for bigger games/the occasional outing

[Logan230]

I will neve understand why people run Landraiders in lists <= 1500 points, let alone 2, scary percentage of points in one model in my opinion. but to each his own.

[Starkhan Fellblade]

I like to use mine to transport my terminators because they cannot teleport in and i dont want to wait for a drop pod. Also i like landraiders for there fire power and duribility

[Quillen]

Most of my winning lists have atleast one Crusader in it. usually with something nasty in it. And it almost always does it's job and gets them there and then kills some stuff on it's own.

 

A standard LR looks cool. Weapons are not right for the job thou. Field a Pred Annil if you're tank hunting. It will do a better job for much cheaper. 3 shots and 1 twin-linked.

 

But yes a LR list is a scarey thing to behold. I did a 3 land raider list in a tourney in Canada and it was 4 straight wins. I might lose 1 tank but that is it. And the units inside will get the charge and kick much ass. Is it costly? Yes but nothing looks as impressive as 3 Land Raiders rolling everything in front of them.

[Twipp]

I use 2 Land raiders (Crusader and Redeemer) in my 2000 list. Crusader is full with Blood Claws(15) and a Wolf Priest. In Redeemer i have 5 WG terminators. i have played one game with nice result.

I just run my Armored army to clash teh enemies while my scouts make some havok against enemy artilillery.

Not sure what the tactics would be against nids. Maybe shoot and fallback and when the nids are weakened a bit then charge.

[dswanick]

I use a single LRC with 10 GH (2xmeltas, pw, Mark) along with Arjac. I use it as Arjac's deticated transport so it doese not use up a slot. It has done really well for me. It is literaly my hammer.

Unforetunately, this isn't legal. Once Arjac is assigned to the Grey Hunter pack as the Pack leader he is part of that unit and is no longer part of the Wolf Guard unit for which the Land Raider is dedicated. Only the Wolf Guard unit could start the game embarked in the dedicated Land Raider.

[Twipp]

I use a single LRC with 10 GH (2xmeltas, pw, Mark) along with Arjac. I use it as Arjac's deticated transport so it doese not use up a slot. It has done really well for me. It is literaly my hammer.

Unforetunately, this isn't legal. Once Arjac is assigned to the Grey Hunter pack as the Pack leader he is part of that unit and is no longer part of the Wolf Guard unit for which the Land Raider is dedicated. Only the Wolf Guard unit could start the game embarked in the dedicated Land Raider.

 

 

 

Hi. I have always wondered about the BC`s inside my landraider Crusader. I have tried to find some info if the BC`s could or could not start the game inside that Crusader.

In many posts and battlereports i have seen that players roll their Landraider Crusader with the BC` inside to the battlefield? Here is a one example,no one here says that it is illegal

 

 

 

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/280959.page

 

 

 

"SW turn 1 -

 

I keep the extra Drop Pod and Swiftclaws in reserve.

 

I deploy the Land Raider Crusader (containing the Blood Claws, Wolf Priest, and Wolf Guard) and other Rhino in the SE corner, behind a rockpile. LRC moves 12, Rhino moves 6.. and the Landspeeder burn onto the table 24" and hides behind the Pyramid on the west side. "

 

 

 

 

Quite confusing and if it is so that the BC`s cant start the game inside a Crusader,then its quite bad cos i usually play against enemies with templates that dont need Line of sight, for example a Manticore..

I am quite a fresh WH40K player and in the games with my friends (who are veteran players) i have always started my first turn with BC`s inside that Crusader.

[Sturm Moonwolf]

I have both a Redeemer and a Crusader, but I prefer the Redeemer over the Crusader when I decide to use a Land Raider. They are not normally in any tournament list I use though unless there is some strange twist in the tournament scenarios or something where I would deem the use of one relevant. Otherwise it's just razor spam for me usually. In friendly games I'll use the raiders often, just to keep them from rusting (or dusting). Guess it depends on what I'm up against. My next Land Raider will be an Achilles though, I play Apocalypse very often and that thing screams coolness to me.

[Grey Mage]

They can start inside the transport.

 

Why? Because its not a dedicated transport. Thats ONLY restrictions- can the model fit *ie no terminators in a rhino* and is it a dedicated transport *in wich case only the squad that bought it can start in it*.

 

Your heavy support landraider- fine. Your BA opponents storm-raven? Same. Eldar Falcon? Can have six guys inside on turn 1, or in reserves.

[d@n]

Land raiders suffer from the same problem that termys do in wolf lists, and thats that we have thunder wolves. For the same price as a land raider you could have 5 basic tw and there going to get into assault just as quickly as a land raider and if you want to put some termys in the land raider by the time you have tooled them up there going to cost around the same cost as another squad of tw. Space wolves dont really have anything really assaulty like death company or berzerkers which need the a garantead assault of a land raider and our thunderhammer termys are over priced. As a heavy support option you can almost get 2x5 missile launcher long fang packs for the same prince and being probably the 2nd best heavy support unit in the game,after oblitoraters the long fangs should be your first choice.

 

I would disagree about tda wolf guard in a drop pod, i think there brilliant, just drop them near something you want destroyed and blast away with 10 plasma shots and 4 cyclone missile launchers and a deathwinder missile and your going to destroy most units.

[Sturm Moonwolf]

Land raiders suffer from the same problem that termys do in wolf lists, and thats that we have thunder wolves. For the same price as a land raider you could have 5 basic tw and there going to get into assault just as quickly as a land raider and if you want to put some termys in the land raider by the time you have tooled them up there going to cost around the same cost as another squad of tw. Space wolves dont really have anything really assaulty like death company or berzerkers which need the a garantead assault of a land raider and our thunderhammer termys are over priced. As a heavy support option you can almost get 2x5 missile launcher long fang packs for the same prince and being probably the 2nd best heavy support unit in the game,after oblitoraters the long fangs should be your first choice.

 

I would disagree about tda wolf guard in a drop pod, i think there brilliant, just drop them near something you want destroyed and blast away with 10 plasma shots and 4 cyclone missile launchers and a deathwinder missile and your going to destroy most units.

 

 

Agreed. But I think Fangs are still better than Oblits. As for wolf guard TDA in a drop pod, love it. But I always thought you couldn't get off 10 plasma shots if you had 2 CML terminies since CML's only work in conjunction with stormbolters, not combi-weapons. I thought you could only rip off 6 plasma shots with that load-out. Correct me if I'm wrong cuz I'll add 2 more combi-plas 2 my CML guys :)

[Grey Mage]

What if you dont like Thunderwolves?

 

I mean obviously theyve got moxie, but theyre not the end all be all of our lists.

[Sturm Moonwolf]

I don't use Thunderwolves myself as they just don't fit my playing style in regular games. I've found just Grey Hunters tooled out do just fine enough for my CC needs. But I do want a big unit of TW's for my Apocalypse games, which I play more of than standard games. About the only time I play regular games is in LGS tourneys, or a pick-up game if someone requests it. Other than that, it's Apocalypse every weekend or so. But for what units to get for what points, I play on the cheap in regular games, the more I can put on the table the better, especially long fangs and lone wolves. I steer away from high point cost models, except for Logan. He's worth every penny, at least in my bank.

[d@n]

Land raiders suffer from the same problem that termys do in wolf lists, and thats that we have thunder wolves. For the same price as a land raider you could have 5 basic tw and there going to get into assault just as quickly as a land raider and if you want to put some termys in the land raider by the time you have tooled them up there going to cost around the same cost as another squad of tw. Space wolves dont really have anything really assaulty like death company or berzerkers which need the a garantead assault of a land raider and our thunderhammer termys are over priced. As a heavy support option you can almost get 2x5 missile launcher long fang packs for the same prince and being probably the 2nd best heavy support unit in the game,after oblitoraters the long fangs should be your first choice.

 

I would disagree about tda wolf guard in a drop pod, i think there brilliant, just drop them near something you want destroyed and blast away with 10 plasma shots and 4 cyclone missile launchers and a deathwinder missile and your going to destroy most units.

 

 

Agreed. But I think Fangs are still better than Oblits. As for wolf guard TDA in a drop pod, love it. But I always thought you couldn't get off 10 plasma shots if you had 2 CML terminies since CML's only work in conjunction with stormbolters, not combi-weapons. I thought you could only rip off 6 plasma shots with that load-out. Correct me if I'm wrong cuz I'll add 2 more combi-plas 2 my CML guys :)

I have always done it and no one has complained yet.

[dswanick]

Land raiders suffer from the same problem that termys do in wolf lists, and thats that we have thunder wolves. For the same price as a land raider you could have 5 basic tw and there going to get into assault just as quickly as a land raider and if you want to put some termys in the land raider by the time you have tooled them up there going to cost around the same cost as another squad of tw. Space wolves dont really have anything really assaulty like death company or berzerkers which need the a garantead assault of a land raider and our thunderhammer termys are over priced. As a heavy support option you can almost get 2x5 missile launcher long fang packs for the same prince and being probably the 2nd best heavy support unit in the game,after oblitoraters the long fangs should be your first choice.

 

I would disagree about tda wolf guard in a drop pod, i think there brilliant, just drop them near something you want destroyed and blast away with 10 plasma shots and 4 cyclone missile launchers and a deathwinder missile and your going to destroy most units.

 

 

Agreed. But I think Fangs are still better than Oblits. As for wolf guard TDA in a drop pod, love it. But I always thought you couldn't get off 10 plasma shots if you had 2 CML terminies since CML's only work in conjunction with stormbolters, not combi-weapons. I thought you could only rip off 6 plasma shots with that load-out. Correct me if I'm wrong cuz I'll add 2 more combi-plas 2 my CML guys ;)

I have always done it and no one has complained yet.

Just because noone has yet checked your dex and called you on it, doesn't mean you're not cheating... ^_^