Terminator hammer unit

[terminatorAM]

just thought Id make a post dedicated to an unusual unit combination to see what everyone else thought of it. Ive played a few games with it and have had more fun than any other unit available in C:SM so here we go

 

i know this is not much more than a huge deathstar unit that eats up points, but has anyone had experience with it or have ideas to make a list around it (2000pnts +)

 

x10 Terminators

x2 cyclone missile launchers

x2 chain fists

 

Lysander

 

Libby in TDA and Storm Shield w/ gate of infinity

 

this monster unit tops off at over 800pnts and is capable of just about any thing. The characters booster their abilities and soak up low AP hits as well as dish out their own CC damage. The libby counters psychers while zipping the unit around the board with gate.

 

So my main question is: what kind of army would this fit into if it were to be used in a semi-competitive game, what other units would be best to take in a list with it, and could this ever be a list worthy of a small-stakes tournament or competitive environment or is it just something most players will laugh at?

[Brother Captain Josef]

TBH mate that's a difficult unit to laugh at. Gate makes this unit but you are susceptible to pie plating and plasma but then what isn't?

 

It's a huge wedge of points in standard sized battles but would defo be worth a bit of play testing. Proxy the models against a mate if you don't actually have them yet just in case you don't like how it turns out then you haven't wasted precious monies.

[Mysticaria]

I like 10x terminators with 2x CML, but what does the librarian add really? I can see Lysander going in there, basically making them twice as resilient against shooting and a real threat in close combat, but I am not sold on the librarian. I don't think you really need to deep srtike these guys. Just line up as close as possible to the other guy, move max speed and shoot missiles each turn. Then, when you are close enough, start laying in with bolters and assault everything. In kill points Lysasnder adds resilience so you should never lose this unit, and in objectives they should get to the enemy objective by turn 5 (30" of movement over 5 turns). I don't see any real advantage in gating all over the place. All it adds is risk.

 

-Myst

[terminatorAM]

the libby adds a psychic hood and another storm shield to soak up more AP2 hits

 

gate makes it so they can redeploy in case of emergency, im not planning on using it too many times but with this much of the army's pnts in one unit, i think they will need to be more mobile than ur average deathstar unit

[DarkGuard]

I really like the idea of this unit. Lots of firepower with the cyclones and storm bolters, and the ability to threaten every unit in the game when you factor in the chainfists. Are the chainfists going onto the cyclones or different models? I only ask because I've been thinking of a similar configuration, and as far as I'm concerned putting those upgrades on the same model can mean that its harder to get rid of those upgrades, as your opponent has to inflict at least 9 wounds to force one of them to make a save. However, if they are on the same one then chances are that if they take a wound, you could lose both upgrades in one failed save.

 

As for the Librarian, Librarians are awesome. I like the Librarian in this unit, but I'm not so sure about Gate of Infinity. The way I see it you don't want to be deep striking, as you'd then want to spread out, rather than firing all those shots you've got. This unit of Terminators wants to start on the board and walk up it, shooting with their missile launchers and storm bolters. You don't need the mobility given by Gate. Also, you've got Lysander and a bunch of power fists in the unit, so you shouldn't worry too much about combat. I personally would prefer Null Zone, the best psychic power in our Codex, and either Avenger or Vortex of Doom, for some powerful short ranged firepower. But each to their own. I'd definitely have Null Zone, swinging combat in your favour against any other Terminator unit you're going up against, and other things besides.

 

The only thing I don't like about the unit is that it's incredibly expensive. Comes in at around 810pts if my maths isn't mistaken. Even in bigger lists this is a lot of points, but then I suppose this is a 'death star' unit.

[Mysticaria]

I really like the idea of this unit. Lots of firepower with the cyclones and storm bolters, and the ability to threaten every unit in the game when you factor in the chainfists. Are the chainfists going onto the cyclones or different models? I only ask because I've been thinking of a similar configuration, and as far as I'm concerned putting those upgrades on the same model can mean that its harder to get rid of those upgrades, as your opponent has to inflict at least 9 wounds to force one of them to make a save. However, if they are on the same one then chances are that if they take a wound, you could lose both upgrades in one failed save.

 

As for the Librarian, Librarians are awesome. I like the Librarian in this unit, but I'm not so sure about Gate of Infinity. The way I see it you don't want to be deep striking, as you'd then want to spread out, rather than firing all those shots you've got. This unit of Terminators wants to start on the board and walk up it, shooting with their missile launchers and storm bolters. You don't need the mobility given by Gate. Also, you've got Lysander and a bunch of power fists in the unit, so you shouldn't worry too much about combat. I personally would prefer Null Zone, the best psychic power in our Codex, and either Avenger or Vortex of Doom, for some powerful short ranged firepower. But each to their own. I'd definitely have Null Zone, swinging combat in your favour against any other Terminator unit you're going up against, and other things besides.

 

The only thing I don't like about the unit is that it's incredibly expensive. Comes in at around 810pts if my maths isn't mistaken. Even in bigger lists this is a lot of points, but then I suppose this is a 'death star' unit.

Different models. You can play wound allocation tricks if you ever get hit by lots of shooting that has low-AP mixed in. Also, in combats with power-weapons and non-power weapons.

 

Also, I still don't like the libby in there. You aren't taking any meltashots or lascanon shots with him being a 2-wound model, so you are really only talking about the few plasmagun/plasmacanon shots. Lysander can deal with those fairly easily, so I'm not seeing 140-points worth of good here.

 

-Myst

[thade]

Devil's advocate time.

 

As it is, GoI puts you into a lovely pie-plate shaped chunk. One lucky round for a Vindicator and that 5+ save you have with vanilla terminators will leave you with a handful of your once mighty unit. 10+ terminators can't fit in any LR I've yet seen either, so you'll prob DS deploy them too. =( You'd want to take great care DSing them and porting them, at the very least focus-firing down whatever can AP2 pie plate them as early as you can.

 

That said, this unit (and "tactical terminators" in general) are often under-estimated. That massive number of power fists is a ridiculous amount of punishment. CMLs are nice, don't discount Assault Cannons or Heavy Flamers. Those can be fun to play with too.

[DarkGuard]

He doesn't have to deep strike them Thade, in fact tactical Terminators with cyclones are most scary when they're deployed on the table and are shooting from the off.

 

And Myst, the Librarian does something completely different to Lysander, he gives the squad different options, boosts them with superior firepower and area of effect powers. He's not meant to do a Lysander and take every melta or lascannon shot that hits them.

[DerekLee688]

I wouldn't gate the unit as it is too unrelable for me. Maybe a Tac squad but nothing worth 1/4 or more of my army. Lib should have null zone to make the best out of all those fists and Vortex if in relentless TDA.

 

In 2000+ is there really a reason why you wouldn't make use of the option of deep strike? Put locator beacons or teleporter homers on either drop pods or scouts to at least give the threat of that first turn alpha strike. Iron pod+Hammer unit would be brutal and scouts are the cheapest bodies we got to offset the terminator unit.

[DarkGuard]

I wouldn't gate the unit as it is too unrelable for me. Maybe a Tac squad but nothing worth 1/4 or more of my army. Lib should have null zone to make the best out of all those fists and Vortex if in relentless TDA.

 

In 2000+ is there really a reason why you wouldn't make use of the option of deep strike? Put locator beacons or teleporter homers on either drop pods or scouts to at least give the threat of that first turn alpha strike. Iron pod+Hammer unit would be brutal and scouts are the cheapest bodies we got to offset the terminator unit.

 

There is a reason why we didn't deep strike this unit, to have 10 Terminator armed bodies shooting 4 missile launchers a shot per turn in addition to their storm bolters. Assault cannons and heavy flamers are more suited to deep strike, but cyclones are a weapon we want on the ground from the off. They have the range to footslog, why not use it?

[terminatorAM]

thank for all the responses guys. i have been planning to walk them on from turn one and the gate idea is seeming more like an unnecessary risk as many of you have pointed out. I still want to keep the libby since i play eldar all the time i need the hood and some of the other powers sound good to both increase shooting nd powerfist potential.

 

but what about other supporting units? ive been planning on having 3 tact squads in firesupport roles and melta drive-bys as well as 2 dreads to escort the termines and provide more fire power but im still missing a good sized chunk of points, what else would work with these units?

[Fintan]

Whilst it looks like a fun unit to play around with in friendly games, any competitive gamer is going to have the tools to annihilate it or interfere with it enough so that it has no real impact in the game. Even my modest 1750pt all-comers list would whittle that unit into nothingness over a couple of turns; 800pts plus the obligatory troops choices doesn't leave you a great deal left to pose any serious threat to my army. Fun but gimmicky.

[DarkGuard]

but what about other supporting units? ive been planning on having 3 tact squads in firesupport roles and melta drive-bys as well as 2 dreads to escort the termines and provide more fire power but im still missing a good sized chunk of points, what else would work with these units?

 

You need some melta from somewhere, so a couple of melta, combi-melta tactical will do nicely, and maybe a couple of MM/HF speeders as well. Which Dreads are using? If you want them to walk with the Termys, then I'd do assault cannon HF. If you want a proper vehicle opener than Rifleman. Of course you could give them the melta, though it's not exactly fast.

[terminatorAM]

i was thinking plasma cannons and missile launchers to take out more elite units and transports, but i dont have the guns yet so i can test out other options.

 

im still trying to decide whether i should put in two tanks (or one LRC) or more infantry to fill the leftover points

[DarkGuard]

i was thinking plasma cannons and missile launchers to take out more elite units and transports, but i dont have the guns yet so i can test out other options.

 

im still trying to decide whether i should put in two tanks (or one LRC) or more infantry to fill the leftover points

 

For the Dreads? Autocannons work better. For Tacticals? Go ahead, MLs are solid and free, PCs are great and cheap.

 

If you're using tanks, I'd use more tanks. You want your Tacticals mobile, and therefore you want to keep them mobile. You do this by adding more tanks for the enemy to shoot at, and the tanks will protect your infantry better than cover.