Ravenwing questions

[Tanhausen]

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

@Moridius

 

I only have 18 bikes...and I'm not that happy with the idea of throwing 400 points (6 bikes+chappy) at a single place...specially with 3+ saves and no energy weapons around (crozius + sarge is not that much).

 

There is a huge shift from DW to RW mentality...basically from anvil to dagger (not even hammer hehe).

 

As said, usually I get to a place and bunker up... that works nicely for me and I feel confortable. Bear in mind I'm no pro player, probably just average. I know experienced players will out-do me... but I don't like it when some kid takes a cookie cutter build (usually SW and IG) and blasts me away.

 

So suggested tactics in these scenarios...

 

1.- SW 4 x GH, banner, Wulfen, double plasma in rhino + 3 LF with ML/LC and rune priest with jaws/difficult terrain... plus 700 points of sweets!

 

Obviously rhinos here are a priority and basically I guess AB should open the box while bikes+devs pounds away the GH.

 

Here I would deploy most of the stuff, maybe DWA 1 squad to hunt LF in CC.

 

2.- IG 1 big blob with straken, a couple Leman+manticore+Hidra+whatever + 3 Vendetta with 3 melta veterans

 

This is not a BIG concern. Outflank everything (since vendettas will probably be in reserve) and basically hold my ground while thinning the blob with the devs.

 

3.- Daemons (my bane!!!) 3-4 MC, juggies, bloodthirsters and nurgle to hold objectives.

 

Here it'd be deploying most if not all and focusing ML on Tzeench and eventually the other MC. Probably would need to sacrifice bikes to stop the MC.

 

4.- Swarm (Foot Orks or Nids).

 

MC do fall to plasma rapid fire... and melta. Big gaunt blobs would probably be tarpitted with a bike squad so prevent mass pressure. Zooanthropes in CC with termis if possible.

 

How is that for a Tactica Imperiales? hehe

[FerociousBeast]

If you feel most natural bunkering down, Ravenwing might not be the best fit for you.

 

With most army builds the player is focusing on whether or not his army is shooty or choppy. Well, a Ravenwing army is usually neither for the points. For the points you can get armies in the Dark Angel codex that have a lot more dakka or a lot more choppa. So you're not paying for the offensive capability in Ravenwing. What you're paying for is movement. (And fearless and a teleport homer.) If you don't like to move around the table a lot, or you're not comfortable doing it, I don't really know what to tell you.

 

But here's where being "movey" helps: it enables you to avoid danger and simultaneously focus your own fire to devastating levels on elements of the opponent's force. But you might have to sacrifice a turn or two of shooting in order to use the movement phase to get you where you need to be. That's why veteran RW players say it's so hard to play Ravenwing in scenarios where killing is all that matters. Very, very rarely will you table your opponent with Ravenwing. You have to learn to give up killing quantity and focus instead on killing quality.

[breng77]

But here's where being "movey" helps: it enables you to avoid danger and simultaneously focus your own fire to devastating levels on elements of the opponent's force. But you might have to sacrifice a turn or two of shooting in order to use the movement phase to get you where you need to be. That's why veteran RW players say it's so hard to play Ravenwing in scenarios where killing is all that matters. Very, very rarely will you table your opponent with Ravenwing. You have to learn to give up killing quantity and focus instead on killing quality.

 

Agreed, the only times I have tabled my opponent were usually against lesser players, Tau, or Necrons.

[Tanhausen]

Good input there.

 

Just for the record: my goal when playing is ALWAYS to enjoy the game. In tournaments, its simply not to go home with 3 loses.

 

I made RW my 2011 project due to 2 reasons:

 

- I wanted to continue with DA

- I have the "absurd" theory that when you build extreme lists, based in 1 aspect of the game, you tend to learn (the hard way) the strengths and weaknessess.

 

It took me 3 months to get the hang of the DW... but I used that time to test and move and try... I guess that's why I'm a decent DW player now.

 

I agree with FB's simplification: most people tend either to go for a shooty (ie SW, IG, Tau) or CC (ie Khorne, JP BA) armies.

 

So few people carry eldar in my area...and some GOOD players have tried them and ended up selling them because they just didn't get the hang of it.

 

That said, I want to learn and improve ;)

 

The idea that I'm neither a big gun nor a big chop is quite graphic and helps me picture the tactics.

 

I'll try and draw a diagram of what usually happens in my games vs 80% of the people, leaving out the 10% top and 10% low ;)

 

Though of the day: outflanking does not mean chaaaaaarge. You can turbo and hide and hit next turn :)

[Gillyfish]

Agreed. Ravenwing is about hitting from unexpected directions. Outflanking can be used to come on behind your opponent's gun line and pop vehicles or toast squads. It's movements means in an objective mission that your opponent must try to deny objectives to you, dispersing his forces and working in your favour. An opponent with a definite plan will be hard to defeat. An opponent who relies on reacting to you is playing into your hands.

[Tanhausen]

An opponent with a solid plan and experience is always hard to beat.

 

How would you put pressure on the opponent to make him react? Mainly vs MC.

[ValourousHeart]

Also the speeder does not prevent the bikes from outflanking.

 

Well looking at the new DA FAQ, I have to change my post... and my tactics... dang it... oh well adapt and over come.

 

The speeder now does prevent the bikes from outflanking.

 

Nice we get the cool new TML for our speeders at a discount vs. C:SM. (I might actually use mine now).

And our apoth now grants FNP, making him even more of an essential.

 

I think this now makes the RW command squad with chaplain a little more of a threat, still not a top ranked deathstar, but a bit better.

 

Too bad they couldn't fix the "scout no turbo boost" rule.

 

But we do still have scoring speeders which does present some advantages... less now that it affects our initial board positioning options.

[breng77]

Nice we get the cool new TML for our speeders at a discount vs. C:SM. (I might actually use mine now).

And our apoth now grants FNP, making him even more of an essential.

 

I think this is only true for the 6 man sized squads, I actually think that if you are running only 3 man squads the apoth is actually a little worse, because while 3 FNP bikes is nice you can no longer help surrounding units like you used to. However, I think it does make for the creation of at least a decent HtH element in a pure RW force.

[ValourousHeart]

True... But I always ran them as 6 man squads, so I could get the speeders.

Now for the fire power advantage if I bring my speeders, I have to give up an alternative deployment option.

 

I'll try a couple of games with my current list w/ DPs for my dreads, see if I can still work my magic without access to outflank.