Conversion Beamer, not on a bike.

[Master Melta]

Hello all,

 

I am working on my Iron hands army and run 1 of two MotFs. My first variant is simple and fluffly, Servo Harness, Combi-plasma and Thunderhammer(That I am thinking of swapping out for a Power weapon). He has one role, add some extra BS 5 plasma to my already deadly command squad of 4x plas spam.

 

However, I also want to put together an option that utilizes the Conversion Beamer since the plasma, while deadly, is almost overkill.

 

So, I was thinking of setting him in with a combat squad of devistators. 5 +Sgt and Las Cannon with MotF and 3 Plasma Cannons squaded out.

 

To goal would be big armor killing since the las and CB link up as far as range goes. Would this be underwhelming?

 

I know the common optimal build is MotF on a bike, but I don't have bikes and won't be running them.

 

Other options would be a similar combi with a tactical squad, mounting up the special weapon and sgt half in a razorback and maybe melta-spaming them.

 

 

I'm open to all ideas.

 

Also, would two MotF with CB be viable?

 

Just so you know I plan on running 1 unit of sternguard, a captian(Cato) with command squad (or leaving that out for 1 beamers) 2-3 tactica squads, 4 dreads of various buildings and the devs. If go with tactical over devs, then a TLAC and LCSS pred instead.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

A conversion beamer on foot isn't too much of an issue apart from a few rather problematic drawbacks:

 

The main one is that hes on foot, so that if an enemy closes on him, he'll find it tough to relocate to maintain optimum damage unless you've got something to keep them at arms length.

 

The more long range things you have in an army and the more inevitble it'll be that he gets closed on because of enemies taking out the long range threats.

 

If hes in a tight spot he cannot make a good getaway either and may well end up locked up in a fight or being hunted down by enemies in fast vehicles

 

 

This isn't to say it cannot work, if he were sitting alone in a bunker with maybe a weak retinue or something he might well be ignored if more pressing targets forced the enemy to engage before they could leave his optimum range, equally he puts out a decent amount of power in a long range gunline, he'll just lose efficiency as the enemy closes ranks! It can work, you just need to make sure you help him work in a way that benefits his weaponry!

[spartan249]

Strength in Iron, brother!

 

To keep my answer short, no, this won't work very well. Most enemies will be in the S10 sweet spot for 1 turn, if that, and the rest of the time you'll be firing S8, if you remain unmolested.

 

I'd suggest that you take Servitors along with your MotF. Not gun servitors, just normal servitors. Repairing damage results can be quite a life saver in a firefight. If you want to keep your CB, then it's absolutely necessary to give him a bike so he stands a chance of utilizing his weapon effectively.

 

Beyond this, I'm seeing a slight problem with your list's fluffiness.

1: Iron Hands don't have many dreads, and the ones they do have are mostly Venerable. 4 dreads is a huge commitment of a Clan company's resources, so if you do want that many dreads, it'd most likely show up as an honor guard of sorts for the Clan commander or a Clan Coalition's escort detail. For either situation, the newer, unproven dreads would be assigned to more menial posts while the oldest and most proven dreads would be given the honor of providing protection to the Clan commander.

2: While not based on what you posted, I'm afraid that you might equip your dreadnoughts incorrectly according to IH fluff. Seeing as your list is almost entirely shooting based, you might stick on the missile launcher or TLAC on the left arm to try to augment that. IH dreads make it a matter of course to have the DCCW on at all times, as the venerable brothers prefer to have a tool for all situations. While it's not impossible to have some brothers who prefer ranged firepower to versatility, I'd try to limit the amount of double gun dreads to 1, maybe 2 per detachment.

3: TDA is seen as the pinnacle of the Iron Hands marine's equipment hierarchy. When someone as important as a Clan Commander hits the field, he gathers the best of the best around him to protect him. This means a squad of Terminators. A rare sight, but not non-existent. If you're going to be bringing someone who's equivalent in rank to Cato to the field, it's a sure bet that you'll be wanting a Terminator squad as escort rather than the lighter loadout of a command squad.

 

If you don't want your Iron Hands to be fluffy or from one of the (relatively) established clans, then by all means ignore the above advice.

[McFisty]

I think that the MotF with just a conversion beamer upgrade is the best choice. Remember that he never gets an invul. save so a cover save might just be what he needs the most to be effective. Sometimes he can even get a 3++ cover save while using his Bolster Defenses skill in ruins. In any case, it is almost always best to deploy him in some cover, even in Dawn of War missions since that scenario allows for one HQ and two troops to be optionally deployed. You can only count on getting S8 shots all game, any S10 shots will be rare but it is still worth it. Overall, he is only worth taking if you want to use Dreads as a Heavy Support choice. Otherwise, he is not worth taking at all unless you just plain like him so much. He is pretty weak compared to other Space Marine HQ choices. That said, I still use him a lot because having 4 - 6 Dreadnoughts is pretty awesome. I hope my two cents worth helps.

 

For The Emperor,

 

McFisty

[Iron Father Ferrum]

It can work, so long as he's got the proper supporting cast. If this, you've basically got two choices. Item the first -- Devastators. The number of squad members doesn't matter, it's all about what guns you give them. Lascannons are horrendously expensive for Devastators, but make for good second fiddles in the anti-tank department. Plasma cannons would be my second choice, because they help out when the enemy gets inside the S10 AP1 sweet spot.

 

Item the second is a servitor retinue. The best choice here? Plasma cannons. See above, plus even with a BS3, they still have a decent chance of hitting something.

 

The other thing is to remember is that distance is your friend. Deploy close to the board edge, and remember that cover if your friend (thus, his Bolster Defenses ability).

[Master Melta]

Thanks for the advice so far lads.

 

If I deploy him in cover with some goons it will likely be Las Cannon Dev and Sgt and combat squad out the other 5 with a couple of plasma cannons.

 

OR

 

I will give him a tactical Las Cannon combat squad.

 

Deploy in board edge cover and fire away.

 

As far as dreads and list go, I think I will run one Ven with assault cannon, 1 regular with Multi Melta, 2 Iron clads. If I don't do Devs, I will give my captain, a THSS retuine, the command squad is close range elite elimination duty, I'll fill out the rest with tactical squads.

[Brother Captain Ed]

Scouts. You can do a five man squad with camo cloaks and rifles for less than 100 pts. If you place your MotF with the scouts they bestow the Stealth USR on him (thanks FAQ!) and he, in turn, can bolster ruins. Ideally, they can get a 2+ cover save with a conversion beam and 5 sniper shots a turn (or a beam, 4 shots, and a heavy weapon, if you roll that way).

 

Honestly, I think that's the best way to go if you insist on not placing the MotF on a bike or in a Rhino.

[DerekLee688]

Wouldn't Telion have to be purchased to give stealth?

[spartan249]

The scouts have camo-cloaks, which do the same thing Telion does.

[pattison]

I had quite good success by fielding 2 MotFs w/ beamers on foot.

Place them in 2 corners of your deployment zone - you always have a chance to fire an S10 AP1 shot.

And yes, they need cover and they need meat around them.

[Xeonic]

The stealth trick is a nice one, given that he can bolster the ruin they're in, and you can take either a hellfire HB, another small template wounding on a 2+, or a ML for a second S8 shot or S4 template.

 

I've fielded my on foot conversion beamer MoTF with twin heavy weapon Sternguard to respectable results, though the conversion beamer wasn't as effective as I'd like(one turn of optimal range shooting), it did kill more than it's value in units over the course of the game easily.

Where he paid for himself was in keeping the squad he's with alive from low AP fire, giving humble sternguard with a vantage point and a pair of plasma cannon a hefty 3+ coversave.

This would work with devastators or a heavy weapon combat squad no problems, but I put him with plasma cannon because I figured he'd be lending antipersonnel fire after the first turn anyways since I was only playing on a 4x4 table.

 

However, the reason I took him was to take 3x dreads and still be able to pack in sternguard and a predator. Hooray for FoC manipulation! Ability to pack a heavy weapon is a bonus of course. I don't run bikes as a general rule so it was on foot or stuffed into a rhino with the same sternguard in close fire support configuration. Given the bolster ability I believe I made the proper decision even though I ultimately lost the game to last turn objective shenanigans.

[Wildfire]

Beyond this, I'm seeing a slight problem with your list's fluffiness.

1: Iron Hands don't have many dreads, and the ones they do have are mostly Venerable. 4 dreads is a huge commitment of a Clan company's resources, so if you do want that many dreads, it'd most likely show up as an honor guard of sorts for the Clan commander or a Clan Coalition's escort detail. For either situation, the newer, unproven dreads would be assigned to more menial posts while the oldest and most proven dreads would be given the honor of providing protection to the Clan commander.

2: While not based on what you posted, I'm afraid that you might equip your dreadnoughts incorrectly according to IH fluff. Seeing as your list is almost entirely shooting based, you might stick on the missile launcher or TLAC on the left arm to try to augment that. IH dreads make it a matter of course to have the DCCW on at all times, as the venerable brothers prefer to have a tool for all situations. While it's not impossible to have some brothers who prefer ranged firepower to versatility, I'd try to limit the amount of double gun dreads to 1, maybe 2 per detachment.

3: TDA is seen as the pinnacle of the Iron Hands marine's equipment hierarchy. When someone as important as a Clan Commander hits the field, he gathers the best of the best around him to protect him. This means a squad of Terminators. A rare sight, but not non-existent. If you're going to be bringing someone who's equivalent in rank to Cato to the field, it's a sure bet that you'll be wanting a Terminator squad as escort rather than the lighter loadout of a command squad.

 

I disagree with all these points. Here's why:

 

1. Newfangled fluff. Feel free to ignore it, newer fluff is almost always inferior IMO.

 

2. Never heard of this. Can you back this up with a reference?

 

3. Not true. Termies as bodyguard is extremely uncommon, I don't think that even at the Iron-Father level they would be a given.

[spartan249]

1:... It's what I read happened after Istvaan V. It's how I run my Iron hands, with very few terminators and 1 to 2 venerable dreadnoughts (Usually Bannus, sometimes Talumech). Just because it is "Inferior" doesn't mean it's not part of the fluff. Unless you run them way post-heresy, they're going to have very few suits of TDA and venerable dreads.

 

2: "Venerable Dreadnaught Talumech

-A member of the Chapter Council and a revered Dreadnaught Brother of the Chapter, Talumech goes to war armed with a mighty twin-linked lascannon in addition to the Close Combat weapon born as the left arm of all the Chapter’s Dreadnaughts." - Librarium: Iron Hands, A Comprehensive History

 

3: Iron Fathers are about equivalent to a Chaplain in other chapters. A Clan Commander/Captain has control of a Clan company, including that clan company's iron fathers. I think that warrants some serious protection, including a squad of very rare terminators where applicable.

[ShinyRhino]

I've made and used a MotF with a Conversion Beamer, on foot.

 

I typically sink mine into a half a Tactical Squad (the half with a heavy weapon, usually a missile launcher), or a 5-man Tactical squad with no upgrades (meatshield duty).

As mentioned, his main problem is mobility, and avoiding assault elements of the enemy army, who will be making a beeline for him, usually. Orks and Nids won't really care about him, as his most common shot will be S8, small blast. That won't do much to Orks, or Nid gribblies, and won't ID any Nid MCs. Marines and Guard HATE this guy, though. If your opponent is IG, expect a LOT of battlecannon shots landing on him and his escort.

 

You also want to remember your range bands for the Beamer. Slapping him alongside plasma cannons might sound awesome, but you have to remember that p-cannons have a 36" range. There might be times you want to slam something at 37+" with the beamer, and end up wasting three plasma cannons for a turn. It takes careful target priority when using a Beamer in your army.

 

When possible, put the Beamer in an elevated ruin, with a commanding field of fire. You can also Bolster said ruin for a 3+ cover save against those high S shots coming at you. It also delays assaulters from reaching you if they have to climb stories of the building to get at you.

[Br0ther Rafen]

i haven't tried this, just thought it up, but what about speed bumping suicide dreads? have a couple come in first turn and distract him for a turn, so the rest of the army can open up and take advantage of his slowness.

I have always wanted to run MoTF with a beamer, but i hate making bikes (i don't know why, but they are a anethema to me), and I don't have the bits (right now) to convert me a MoTF.

[ShinyRhino]

i haven't tried this, just thought it up, but what about speed bumping suicide dreads? have a couple come in first turn and distract him for a turn, so the rest of the army can open up and take advantage of his slowness.

I have always wanted to run MoTF with a beamer, but i hate making bikes (i don't know why, but they are a anethema to me), and I don't have the bits (right now) to convert me a MoTF.

 

It might work, but only against an unskilled opponent. Opponents might quickly realize that melee with a Dread is the best place for them to be, since you can't fire into a close combat. Horde Orks would LOVE to have suicide Dreads to throw Boyz at and eventuallykill with a Powerklaw.

The real problem I've found with the Beamer is that it's a small Blast. Small blasts don't kill a lot of infantry, and aren't reliable enough to kill a lot of tanks. You can smoke a Land Raider from across the board, but smaller targets are harder to hit and kill.