No Wolves on Fenris

[MaveriK]

I'm sticking with my conclusion and answers in my earlier post. It's all just a metaphor! LOL

[Simo429]

I dont have my codex in front but online it suggests that the canis helix is a mixture of Russ' genome. A little bit wooly, how is that different from the gene seed and why don't other chapters have them?

[Lord Ragnarok]

Canis Helix just part of the SW geneseed, without it the remaining geneseed cannot be added. This is where SWs must overcome the changes that occur in their bodies, survive the trials of Asaheim with their sanity and return to the Fang. Once this occurs, the later geneseed sequences are added, which stabilizes the CH.

[Simo429]

This maybe one of those times when I think too far into the process because I am a geneticist but for me the facts are too blurred (probably because it is all made up) so I still don't properly understand.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

Canis Helix is interesting as it's unique to the wolves, the only other chapter than needs something to kick-start the process is the Blood Angels (they require the blood of Sanguinius).

 

Lends credence to the belief that there is something unique about the DNA of the Fenrisians.

[Beef]

I think the wolves were not failed aspirants. Sw geneseed did not devolve failed aspirants into wolves, Unless the Emperor actually used Wolf dna to create the wolves given the legion was his hunters and exicutioners?

 

Maybe the Canis Helix was introduced later to counter this affect of turning failed aspirants into wolves.

 

But i agree if they wre failed aspirants who turned to wolves how did they breed??

Especially as they wre all male.?

 

I believe the wolves were spirits of the dead SWs.

 

What i want to know is did Russ hunt the 2 unknown primarchs as well. As in the last few pages he mention that legion sent to hunt another has been done before.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Beef, did you read First Heretic? There are possibilities.

 

I think the Emperor absolutely used wolf gene for Russ to breed the most cunning and loyal Killer. (no matter what version of wolves on fenris you believe).

[clanfield]

i found longfangs anwser interesting "there were no wolves on fenris ,until we came"

in prospero there is a strong tie with wolves shapechangeing but also they slip in and out of the reality in the story a lot again what a fabulous end they litrly are space wolves way to cool and im of the old school chapter thought line of grey marines .

its almost as if as time has gone on they have lost control ie back in the crusade they could shapechange at will but in the 41st they donnt control the change

which is interesting when you think abouthaelfwulf in the story he was tainted and changed involontery

as to the canis i always belived that the inplants were performed prior to the hunt/return to the fang trip with a knife and a pelt.

 

how do they breed yes indeed also how was russ brought up by wolves before there was wolves on fenris, i cannt remember right but was it not hinted in thousand sons that the wolves were some kind of spirit or xenos

 

i kind of like the idea that they could be the spirit of fenris itself or the hunter remember that old quote"the wolf that stalks between the stars"implys the warp i feel

[Captain Idaho]

Could it be that there is actually a distinction beteween the Wolves of Fenris & the Wolves created by the Space Wolves geneseed? It seems to me people are dismissing Magnus' "version" as it doesn't fit or the Space Wolf claim doesn't fit because how can they habe female Wolves if they are created from failed Astartes?

 

We know there are different types of wolves on Fenris, we know that some are more intelligent than the "average" wolf, we know that Space Wolves aspirants have to return to the Fang & survive "the horrors" of the monsters that stalk the wastes and we know that Leman Russ was raised by wolves & had a couple as companions before the Space Wolves even arrived on the planet.

 

So these facts of the Space Wolves might actually mean all accounts are the correct? Maybe the colonists were genespliced with Wolves, hence the usual "some went wrong & became monsters" scenario, but that doesn't mean those with Geneseed that goes wrong can't become monsters. In fact, the 2 versions make perfect sense together; the geneseed of Space Wolves reacts badly with the native Fenrisian's wolf spliced gene, thus creating Wulfen.

 

I actually like this aspect of the Space Wolves. I have never made it a secret that there are loads of aspects of the fluff of the Space Wolves that I don't like, but it's so much more interesting to see the imperfect genetics of the Wolves, & their hatred of the impure is ironic considering their genetic heritage.

[Starkhan Fellblade]

I think the wolves were not failed aspirants. Sw geneseed did not devolve failed aspirants into wolves, Unless the Emperor actually used Wolf dna to create the wolves given the legion was his hunters and exicutioners?

 

Maybe the Canis Helix was introduced later to counter this affect of turning failed aspirants into wolves.

 

But i agree if they wre failed aspirants who turned to wolves how did they breed??

Especially as they wre all male.?

 

I believe the wolves were spirits of the dead SWs.

 

What i want to know is did Russ hunt the 2 unknown primarchs as well. As in the last few pages he mention that legion sent to hunt another has been done before.

 

Well it is assumed that the legions split in half 10 loyal and 10 traitor. So he may have hunted down the traitor one. Who knows?

[Captain Idaho]

The Heresy novels and their authors (Emperor bless 'em) have kinda changed the 10 loyal/10 traitor assumption from 2nd edition. It seems like they were "dealt with" before the Heresy.

 

To be honest I don't think there is a big reveal or anything, at least not until recently. GW have likely just never had an official story here & now the BL have dealt with the matter in more detail it is likely they are starting to create an official story in their minds. The authors probably are just as in the dark as the rest of us!

[Lord Ragnarok]

With respect to the fate of the missing legions, GW has stated this was done for fans to to come up with their own ideas. But they may be either 1. revealing what happened piece by piece in BL novels or just adding to the intrigue by giving us a little and not finishing off any reveal.

[Brother Nathan]

i still say one of the missin 2 is the legion of the dammed, hence them being called legion, and why they dissapeared. and we dont for sure know they were the fire hawks...

[Captain Idaho]

After reading The Chapter's Due I'm fairly sure the Legion are NOT the Fire Hawks. Besides, I never thought that was a good piece of fluff, it just wasn't unusual enough considering how super natural they become.

[Wulf Vengis]

I havent read the book BUT Ive just had atheory that may be plausible. Magnus was a sorceror and was prone to visions. Perhaps he saw that the planet Fenris was devoid of actual space wolves in a vision, most likely because they (the SW) were on their way to Prospero. Magnus states there are no wolves on Fenris implying that the full force of the legion is on its way to destroy him (Magnus) and his own legion.

 

Just a theory.

[Captain Idaho]

That is quite possible & now we think about it perhaps entirely likely!

[Simo429]

I havent read the book BUT Ive just had atheory that may be plausible. Magnus was a sorceror and was prone to visions. Perhaps he saw that the planet Fenris was devoid of actual space wolves in a vision, most likely because they (the SW) were on their way to Prospero. Magnus states there are no wolves on Fenris implying that the full force of the legion is on its way to destroy him (Magnus) and his own legion.

 

Just a theory.

 

Its negated by the references to it by non TS characters in Prospero Burns however. Good thought though.

[NightrawenII]

i still say one of the missin 2 is the legion of the dammed, hence them being called legion, and why they dissapeared. and we dont for sure know they were the fire hawks...

Yeah, yeah... enjoy:

 

Chapter Name: Fire Hawks

Homeworld: Zhoros - destroyed

Primarch: Roboute Guilliman

Chapter Master: N/A

Founding: N/A

Founding Chapter: Ultramarines

 

In the year 963 of the current millennium, Space Marine chapter 'Fire Hawks' was ordered into the Crows World sub-sector. Crows World and adjacent planetary systems had fallen into anarchy following heavy raiding by Eldar Pirates. The Fire Hawks' intervention would drive the Eldar from the human worlds, restoring Imperial rule and teaching the alien invaders an important lesson. The entire chapter-fleet, including the chapter's mobile space-fortress, made a successful warp jump from the Piraeus system a mere 120 light years from Crows World. The five ships, over eight hundred brethren, and two thousand other personnel expected to reach Crows World within no more than 12 hours. They never arrived.

 

Twenty years after the event the chapter was officially declared lost in the warp and presumed destroyed. The great Bell of Lost Souls tolled a thousand times, and it said that the Emperor himself ordered a Black Candle to be lit in the Adeptus Chapel of Fallen Heroes.

 

Fire Hawks: Legion of the Damned

 

On 9667986.M41 a routine Imperial patrol passed through the Ork held system of Jakor-tal. The squadron uncovered altogether unexpected scenes of devastation. The limited facilities available to the patrol could uncover no clue to the identity of the attacking forces. The incident was noted and passed into the everlasting record of the Administratum.

 

A rash of similar incidents within the same and adjoining sectors soon began to arouse the interest of the Inquisition. Squadron commanders throughout these sectors were reinforced and ordered to double their routine patrols. The incidents continued apace, increasing rather than declining in frequency and destructiveness. Even so, no sign of the intruders was discovered for almost a year. Then, on 3628987. M41, a patrol ship in the Maran sub-sector narrowly avoided a collision with a space-craft at the Cift jump-point. The patrol ship was entering the Cift system as the unidentified craft was leaving. Alerted by the close encounter, the patrol crew scanned the entire jump-area and discovered two long cylindrical objects within the intruder's projected flight-path. These were hauled aboard and proved to be standard space-coffins without identification markings.

 

The coffins were shipped back to earth and opened by the Adeptus Mechanicus. The coffins themselves were identified as belonging to the Absolute, one of the spacecraft from the vanished Fire Hawk fleet. Inside were the armoured remains of two Space Marines. The unconventional armour colours and unofficial insignia puzzled the investigators, but serial numbers tallied with equipment made by or issued to the Fire Hawks. The armoured suits were expected to house members of the lost chapter, and were carefully broken open. The bodies within were human, but further identification proved impossible due to their advanced state of decay.

 

The full truth would not emerge until almost a year later when a besieged Imperial research station received unexpected help. The garrison had been attacked suddenly by Ork pirates. After three hours of fighting the situation looked hopeless. Then, without warning, the Orks found themselves attacked in the rear. The ferocity of the fighting appalled even the station's defenders. Within half an hour, several hundred Orks had fallen to the mysterious, power-armoured figures. Then, as suddenly as they had appeared, the warriors vanished. This time they left behind a banner - the gnarled chapter flag of the Fire Hawks - and inscribed upon it was the motto In dedicato imperatum ultra articulo mortis (For the Emperor beyond the point of death). As well as the banner there was a recorder and sundry other sealed items. These were immediately shipped to Earth.

 

From the data contained in the recorder the Administratum was able to determine exactly what had happened to the lost chapter. Following their warp-jump the entire fleet had been caught within a warp-storm of terrific intensity. Stunned by the power of the warp, the chapter was forced to endure the attacks of powerful warp entities. Ship after ship was destroyed and absorbed into the fabric of the warp. Soon only one craft remained. By a daring warp-exit manoeuvre the craft burst out of warp-space, emerging far in the galactic east, thousands of light years off-course and beyond even the psychic light of the Emperor.

 

The original survivors numbered two hundred brethren. All gene-seed had been lost, all initiates killed, and most of the chapter's masters were gone. None of the ordinary human staff have survived at all. To make matters worse the brethren had changed. This change became more obvious over the next few months. Skins began to blacken and blister, flesh began to fester and putrefy. Slowly they began to die. Within days of the transition into normal space it became obvious that the chapter had been exposed to some form of dangerous mutation or disease. It took many years to navigate a way back into the Imperium, during which time almost half the brethren succumbed to the malady. Those who remained were no longer sane. Pain and despair had driven even their hardened minds beyond the point of rationality. Doomed to agonising deaths, they gradually became obsessed with their fate. Now they only wanted to die. But they were still marines, still loyal to the Emperor and humanity. They would not die without a purpose.

 

So began the unstoppable war of the Legion of the Damned! The marines elected to remove all insignia from their armour. Instead their armour would be black, decorated by each brother with whatever emblems of death he chose (the accompanying illustrations show some typical variations). Most brothers employed a similar theme - skeletons, bones and skulls.

 

All ranks and companies were abolished, most of the chapter's officers were already dead and the remaining warriors were too few to make up a fully functioning chapter hierarchy. All brothers were to be equal before death - levelled by the certainty of their assured extinction. The warriors decided to expend their lives attacking enemies wherever they could be found. The disease had robbed them of their sanity, but not their loyalty!

~ White Dwarf US/UK 99, Index Astartes: Legion of the Damned by Rick Priestley

[Captain Idaho]

Interesting but possibly outdated.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Fire hawks article removed until mod/admin discussion to assure its legality based on forum rules.

[t-tauri]

"Bear" is Bjorn, later the Fell Handed.

 

There are no "Wolves" on Fenris because the creatures that live there, both animal and human, have been genetically engineered to survive on a Deathworld and so are no longer terran.

 

The "lost" legions are fairly clearly wiped out prior to the heresy (likely by the Wolves and the Word Bearers).

 

The Fire Hawks are the Legion of the Damned and definitely not a lost legion.

[Lord Ragnarok]

t-tauri, not sure about the legions being wiped out. "Primarchs destroyed/Executed" would fit better. As there is an assumption that the ultras received some of the Astartes who were not destroyed. Lord Rags Speculation..... Perhaps one or both went completely ape nuts and their "sons" didnt even stand in the way of their Primarch's execution.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

There are no "Wolves" on Fenris because the creatures that live there, both animal and human, have been genetically engineered to survive on a Deathworld and so are no longer terran.

 

Or the 'wolves' could be the original xenos inhabitants of Fenris that were assumed to be non-sentient when the planet was colonised and named 'wolves' due to the broad similarity to terran animals ...

[DV8]

There are some interesting thoughts and theories here. Some I agree with, some I do not. I have just finished reading Prospero Burns, and a lot of it is fresh in my mind. So what are the facts that we know?

 

Leman Russ, the Wolf King, landed on Fenris and for a while was raised by a pack of Wolves.

 

Quoting p. 282, from Prospero Burns

 

"Try to keep up, skjald. There were no wolves on Fenris until we got here."

Longfang looked back at the wolf.

"Twice he's helped protect you," he said.

"What?" asked Hawser.

"He had a different name last time you were in his company," said Longfang. "Then, he was called Brom"

 

Recalling thus the opening of the novel, Hawser's flight from the murder-make of the Balt and the Hradcana. He was accompanied by several of the Ascommani: Fith, Guthox, Brom and Lern.

 

When Bear (whom we find out at the end is actually Bjorn) eventually rescues them, Hawser pleads and "bargains" with Bjorn to take the Ascommani with him. We fast forward a few chapters and we find that Fith has been made Astartes, thus named Fith Godsmote. We can naturally assume that the Ascommani were put through the trials. Fith succeeded. Brom evidently did not.

 

We have separate collaborations, most importantly from Magnus the Red, the Crimson King, that indeed there are "no wolves on Fenris."

 

The initial factor that Leman Russ was raised by a pack of Fenrisian Wolves (of which two remain at his side, Freki and Geri) indicates strongly to me that there were indeed wolves on Fenris before the Emperor found Russ, before the Space Wolves made Fenris their homeworld.

 

Let's not forget too that Heoroth Longfang is a Terran-borne Astartes. When he says "until we got here...", he could just as easily be referring to the Terran elements of the Sixth Legion, as he could be metaphorically referring to the Legion itself, playing on the fact that they are referred to by outsiders as the "Space Wolves".

 

Recall earlier also that Skarsi mentions the Legion doesn't refer to themselves as Space Wolves. They call themselves the Vlka Fenryka (formally) or the Rout (informally). Thus the term Space Wolves is a term outsiders have placed upon the Legion, perhaps drawing upon their close connections with the wolves on Fenris.

 

Throughout the novel, the Sixth is always mentioned as uncivilized barbarians to outsiders, a fact that the Legion draws upon to their advantage. This lie hides the cunning and ruthlessness of the Sixth and is, in a manner of speaking, a weapon of war they employ to great advantage. There is a strong dichotomy with the mannerisms of Russ and his Legion, whereupon Russ expounds on the fact that he wants his opponents to know what is coming to annihilate them. And yet they use the external (and false) perceptions that have been built around their Legion to their advantage, in whatever field of war they happen upon.

 

In all the Horus Heresy novels to date, we have been shown that the Astartes are not as simple as we may think, and their respective premogenitors, the Primarchs, very much less so. There is a depth to them than is visible from the surface, and there is no reason to think that any less can be said of what they say.

 

Thus the saying "There are no wolves on Fenris," can be used to refer to a great many number of things at once, all of them true, without relying on any one particular answer.

 

It can refer to the fact that the Sixth Legion have been named Space "Wolves", and that indeed the Wolves did not exist on Fenris until the Emperor re-found Russ and established Fenris as their homeworld.

 

It can refer to the idea that, while wolves may have once existed on Fenris, they have long since died out, and indeed the only wolves left are the mutations and were-kind that result from failed aspirants and those who are Wulfen-touched (as we can see with Brom).

 

Drawing on Longfang's addition "until we got here" can allow the phrase to refer to what the wolf represents, as a pack-predator, a hunter. Hawser plays a crucial role in this interpretation because of his fear of wolves from his experience as a child. Wolves, therefore, are the monsters that go bump in the night, that haunt your dreams and give meaning and substance to your fears.

 

In any case I think it is this mysticism that gives such depth to the phrase, because there is no direct, literal meaning. There is depth to it and the ominous mystery that it gives is merely another tool that the Sixth uses as a tool of war.

 

 

DV8

[Wulfkry]

Very interesting points DV8, i found that the information and deductions you have compiled to be illuminating. Personally, I felt that Longfangs, remark of "until we got here" to mean humanity as a species, not just the vlka fenryka. There were already human's on Fenris before Leman crashed landed. Also, since in the codex it seems to infer that there was a tyranid presence on fenris eons if not millions of years ago, that perhaps the "wolves" on fenris are indeed some type of xenos creature that is not entirely native fauna.

 

Of course it could also be that Fenris is in a way like caliban and there exists some type of Chaos presence and that the "wolves" of fenris are the spirits of its human inhabitants who have "died". Perhaps the wolves are the fenris version of the eldar soulstone. (that just popped into my head as i was typing this.)

 

It seems to me that (im not sure if i read this in a post earlier or in another section), but just because we name something a wolf does not mean it is a wolf. Especially when dealing with species from another planet. The original settles of fenris if they did encounter the creatures we know as the fenrisian wolf today more than likely just named it "wolf" because it bears some features akin to the native wolves of earth. (And from all the images that GW has produced of the fenrisian wolf they look like something crossed between a lion and a wolf and a rhino).