Wound allocation and rune priests

[Starkhan Fellblade]

Hi I have a few questions after play a couple of games with my friends. Also our friend with the rule book recently moved to another state so in need clarification for someone that does have one.

 

1. Lets say that this unit

Logan Grimar

WG - TDA + th + ss

WG - TDA + th + ss

WG - TDA + cf + assault cannon

WG - TDA + wc+ Combi-melta

WG - TDA + wc+ combi-plasma

 

Gets shot by a las cannon (s 9 ap 2) what invulnerable save do i use? Can i use the 3+ from the storm shields?

 

2. Take that same unit and say it assaults a unit of genestealers with rending claws. Can i assign rending attacks in which he rolls 6 to the guys with the storm shields?

 

3. Can i use a wolf tail talisman or the rune priest's ability to attempt to negate instant death by the force weapons ability?

 

Thanks,

Starkhan

[Temper]

to the first 2 questions the answer is yes you can. You are the one who assigns the wound to a model, this can be the model with the best safe. The exception to this is if the rending 6 is assigned on Logan as he is an independent Character. I cant quote the rule book as i dont have it on me right now.

 

To the third question, the answer is yes you can, the force weapon power is a psychic power.

 

For wolf tail talisman page 62 of the space wolves codex: Any psychic power to the owner or the unit he is with is negated on a 5+

 

For the runic weapon page 36 of the space wolves codex: any psychic power done within 24" of the caster is nullified on a 4+

 

Hope this helps

 

Temper

[DV8]

It's a little trickier than one might think, insofar as the first two situations. And it's not simply a matter of "yes you can".

 

For the first two situations, (Lascannon, and Rending hits), you are dealing with something called Wound Allocation, which means that when a unit takes wounds and must make saves, you have to first allocate (or assign) the wounds to specific models before you roll any appropriate saves. The way Wound Allocation works is that every model in a unit must be assigned a wound, before another model can be assigned a second. This is what's generally referred to as wrapping wounds around, and what some players will try to do with whats called "torrent of fire" (that is, forcing so many wounds on a unit that specific models will have to make a save, in the hopes of killing say, a power fist, or heavy/special weapon).

 

You allocate wounds once one enemy unit has finished shooting at you, and then you resolve your saves. If another unit then shoots at your unit again, you go through the entire process. I'll explain below:

 

You have your unit:

 

Logan Grimar

WG - TDA + th + ss

WG - TDA + th + ss

WG - TDA + cf + assault cannon

WG - TDA + wc+ Combi-melta

WG - TDA + wc+ combi-plasma

 

Lets say only one enemy unit (Unit A) shoots at you, and only manage to deal one wound with a Lascannon. Unit A finishes it's shooting, and you begin wound allocation. Assuming you want to try and make your Stormshield Save against the hit, you can choose to allocate the wound to a Wolf Guard with the Storm Shield. If you pass, hurrah! If you fail, however, that specific model you allocated wounds to HAS to die (so the Wolf Guard with the Storm Shield is removed from play.

 

Let's try a second scenario! Let's say you have your same unit again:

 

Logan Grimar

WG - TDA + th + ss

WG - TDA + th + ss

WG - TDA + cf + assault cannon

WG - TDA + wc+ Combi-melta

WG - TDA + wc+ combi-plasma

 

Only this time, let's say enemy unit (Unit A) shoots at you and lands 5 wounds on you, 2 with Lascannons, 1 with a Plasmagun, and 2 with Bolters. You have to now begin wound allocation. As the Lascannons and Plasmaguns are both AP2, you want to allocate them to the models with the best chances of survival. Let's say you choose to assign the Lascannons to the Storm Shield models, the Plasmagun to Logan (who has a 4+ invulnerable save), a Bolter wound to the Combi-Melta, and a Bolter wound to the Combi-Plasma. You roll your saves individually:

 

Logan Grimar - Plasmagun, he rolls a 5 and he's fine

WG - TDA + th + ss - 2 Lascannons (because the two Stormshield Wolfguard are identical, you roll saves for them at the same time, any failed will kill a model), they both roll a 2 and are killed!

WG - TDA + th + ss

WG - TDA + cf + assault cannon - Bolter, he rolls a 3 and he's fine

WG - TDA + wc+ Combi-melta - Bolter, he rolls a 2 and he's fine

 

Lets say that your opponent now shoots at you with another enemy unit (Unit :D, and this time manage another Lascannon shot! Your unit now looks like this:

 

Logan Grimar

WG - TDA + cf + assault cannon

WG - TDA + wc+ Combi-melta

WG - TDA + wc+ combi-plasma

WG - TDA + wc+ combi-plasma

 

Well, without the Stormshield saves, you don't have anybody with a 3+ invulnerable save to allocate to! Your best bet is to put it on Logan, who has a 4+ invulnerable save and Eternal Warrior. Even if he fails he'll only lose 1 of his wounds.

 

Wound Allocation in combat works the same way for shooting. Let's assume your entire unit made it into combat unscathed. Your unit:

 

Logan Grimar

WG - TDA + th + ss

WG - TDA + th + ss

WG - TDA + cf + assault cannon

WG - TDA + wc+ Combi-melta

WG - TDA + wc+ combi-plasma

 

And now we encounter situation two, where lets say you're engaged with a unit of Genestealers. They land their attacks, and manage a frightening 13 wounds on you, 5 of which are Rending! You now have to allocate your wounds. Because you only have 6 models, every model must have 2 wounds allocated to them, with one having 3 instead. Thus, you can allocate it this way:

 

Logan Grimar - 2 wounds

WG - TDA + th + ss - 2 Rending wounds

WG - TDA + th + ss - 3 Rending wounds

WG - TDA + cf + assault cannon - 2 wounds

WG - TDA + wc+ Combi-melta - 2 wounds

WG - TDA + wc+ combi-plasma - 2 wounds

 

Now, when you roll your saves, you would roll individually for every model except for the Stormshield models. You've assigned 5 Rending wounds to them, and because the models are identical, you roll all 5 saves at once. Any failed saves kills a model. Let's say you rolled a 1, 1, 2, 4, and 5. This would kill both of the Storm Shield models, and that third failed save is ignored (no other model in the unit has to take it) because of wound allocation.

 

With regards to the Rune Priest. So long as he is within 24" whenever an enemy Psychic Power is successfully cast, you may roll a 4+ to attempt to nullify it. It doesn't matter how it was cast, or what phase (even if it is cast automatically). The Wolf Tail Talisman, however, will only work if the Rune Priest is in the specific unit being targeted.

 

Note that you can use the Rune Priest's Null Rod first, and if you fail to nullify it on a 4+, you may attempt your 5+ save from the Talisman to save against it.

 

Hope that helps.

 

DV8

[Starkhan Fellblade]

Thank both of you very much for answering my questions! :D

one more question though in the close combat situation is Logan treated as part of the unit or can my opponent specifically attack him?

 

Starkhan

[DV8]

Thank both of you very much for answering my questions! :D

one more question though in the close combat situation is Logan treated as part of the unit or can my opponent specifically attack him?

 

Starkhan

 

You know what, I'm daft. Yes in close combat, Logan is a separate unit entirely. If the enemy attacks the unit (that is, the Wolf Guard), all wounds have to be allocated within the Wolf Guard (and none can be assigned to Logan). The enemy has to specifically attack Logan in order for him to take wounds (only models in BtB (Base To Base) with Logan, or within 2" of a model in BtB with Logan, may attack him). Likewise Logan must be in BtB with the enemy to attack.

 

 

DV8

[Starkhan Fellblade]

Thank both of you very much for answering my questions! :D

one more question though in the close combat situation is Logan treated as part of the unit or can my opponent specifically attack him?

 

Starkhan

 

You know what, I'm daft. Yes in close combat, Logan is a separate unit entirely. If the enemy attacks the unit (that is, the Wolf Guard), all wounds have to be allocated within the Wolf Guard (and none can be assigned to Logan). The enemy has to specifically attack Logan in order for him to take wounds (only models in BtB (Base To Base) with Logan, or within 2" of a model in BtB with Logan, may attack him). Likewise Logan must be in BtB with the enemy to attack.

 

 

DV8

 

Thanks for the clarification ^_^

 

Yet one more question come to mind when using jaws of the world wolf and taking a initiative test do you use the initiative value do you use the one in the codex or do you modify it if you have wargear like a thunder hammer?

 

-Starkhan

[Ulfhedinn]

Codex Initiative

[Starkhan Fellblade]

Codex Initiative

 

 

Thanks

[Commander Sasha]

Excellent summation DV8, daftness too self critical!

 

In regard to Logan etc, the enemy has to say how many are against the termy unit, and how many are against the Independant character (and this does not have to be split between genestealers: 1t could be 17 against unit and 1 against Logan, subject to the B2B + 2" rule); once stated, you can effectively think of them as separate bits of combat.

 

As a 'Nid player, I often find myself involved in very complex multi-assaults, with my Monstrous Creature and a horde of kiddies attacking a Chaplain and Hammernators, plus giving their tank a kick! 5 units, all different saves, toughnesses, etc.

[Starkhan Fellblade]

Yet another question has come up.

 

Let say you have Logan give your squad preferred enemy infantry. Also lets say that you have a wolf priest in the same unit who also gives the unit preferred enemy infantry. Do you get the re-roll bonus from both? Or just one of them.

 

Thanks,

Starkhan

[Brother Landrain]

And now we encounter situation two, where lets say you're engaged with a unit of Genestealers. They land their attacks, and manage a frightening 13 wounds on you, 5 of which are Rending! You now have to allocate your wounds. Because you only have 6 models, every model must have 2 wounds allocated to them, with one having 3 instead. Thus, you can allocate it this way:

 

Logan Grimar - 2 wounds

WG - TDA + th + ss - 2 Rending wounds

WG - TDA + th + ss - 3 Rending wounds

WG - TDA + cf + assault cannon - 2 wounds

WG - TDA + wc+ Combi-melta - 2 wounds

WG - TDA + wc+ combi-plasma - 2 wounds

 

Now, when you roll your saves, you would roll individually for every model except for the Stormshield models. You've assigned 5 Rending wounds to them, and because the models are identical, you roll all 5 saves at once. Any failed saves kills a model. Let's say you rolled a 1, 1, 2, 4, and 5. This would kill both of the Storm Shield models, and that third failed save is ignored (no other model in the unit has to take it) because of wound allocation.

DV8

 

Which is why you give one of the WG with a Storm Shield a Melta Bomb...

 

For Wound allocation, it is important that your SS's are all on unique models.

 

Because in the above situation you lose both models, but if they were unique and you rolled... 1,1,2 and 4,5 you would only lose the first model not both.

[the jeske]

nope.

[Brother Landrain]

Excellent summation DV8, daftness too self critical!

 

In regard to Logan etc, the enemy has to say how many are against the termy unit, and how many are against the Independant character (and this does not have to be split between genestealers: 1t could be 17 against unit and 1 against Logan, subject to the B2B + 2" rule); once stated, you can effectively think of them as separate bits of combat.

 

Important to note: Only models in base contact with Logan may attack Logan... or any IC's

[DV8]

For Wound allocation, it is important that your SS's are all on unique models.

 

Because in the above situation you lose both models, but if they were unique and you rolled... 1,1,2 and 4,5 you would only lose the first model not both.

 

It is better if the Storm Shields are on unique models to prevent having to roll massed saves. But you still have to allocate before rolling to save, so if you have this scenario:

 

Wolf Guard, TDA, SS, Meltabombs - 3 wounds, rolls a 1, a 4 and a 5

Wolf Guard, TDA, SS - 2 Wounds, rolls a 1 and a 2

 

They would both still die. Just because they have Storm Shields doesn't mean you can roll all the saves at once, and then allocate all the failed ones to a single model. Having every model uniquely armed allows you to stack multiple wounds on a single model, and should you fail the bulk of those saves, they won't wrap around to any other model.

 

Yet another question has come up.

 

Let say you have Logan give your squad preferred enemy infantry. Also lets say that you have a wolf priest in the same unit who also gives the unit preferred enemy infantry. Do you get the re-roll bonus from both? Or just one of them.

 

Thanks,

Starkhan

 

You get Preferred Enemy against Enemy Infantry from both of them, but as you cannot re-roll a re-roll, you would only get to re-roll your To Hit rolls once (which means having a Wolf Priest and Logan Grimnar in a unit simply to give Preferred Enemy redundant).

 

 

DV8

[Starkhan Fellblade]

For Wound allocation, it is important that your SS's are all on unique models.

 

Because in the above situation you lose both models, but if they were unique and you rolled... 1,1,2 and 4,5 you would only lose the first model not both.

 

It is better if the Storm Shields are on unique models to prevent having to roll massed saves. But you still have to allocate before rolling to save, so if you have this scenario:

 

Wolf Guard, TDA, SS, Meltabombs - 3 wounds, rolls a 1, a 4 and a 5

Wolf Guard, TDA, SS - 2 Wounds, rolls a 1 and a 2

 

They would both still die. Just because they have Storm Shields doesn't mean you can roll all the saves at once, and then allocate all the failed ones to a single model. Having every model uniquely armed allows you to stack multiple wounds on a single model, and should you fail the bulk of those saves, they won't wrap around to any other model.

 

Yet another question has come up.

 

Let say you have Logan give your squad preferred enemy infantry. Also lets say that you have a wolf priest in the same unit who also gives the unit preferred enemy infantry. Do you get the re-roll bonus from both? Or just one of them.

 

Thanks,

Starkhan

 

You get Preferred Enemy against Enemy Infantry from both of them, but as you cannot re-roll a re-roll, you would only get to re-roll your To Hit rolls once (which means having a Wolf Priest and Logan Grimnar in a unit simply to give Preferred Enemy redundant).

 

 

DV8

 

 

Thanks,

Starkhan

[Simo429]

You really need to get yourself a rule book

[Starkhan Fellblade]

You really need to get yourself a rule book

 

 

Yea this I know once my money tree starts dropping leaves i'll get one

 

Starkhan