Techmarines..on bikes!

[ShinyRhino]

Hey all.

I'm trying to bulk out my FOC slot choices for my all-fast Codex Marine army. Right now I tend to fill my HQ with a Bike Captain (or Khan), a Bike Command Squad, and a jump Libby. Troops are 3-4 Bike squads with melta, plasma, and an all-bolter squad (soon to be bolstered by more melta, or flamers). Fast Attack is a pair of Tyhpoon Speeders, a pair of attack bikes, and an Assault Marine squad with dual-flamers and a powerfist. I'm aiming at Predators and LRCs as my Heavy Support, but am trying to figure out how to fill my Elite slots.

 

I know everyone will likely start screaming about Hammernators and Sternguard, which are viable choices. Thing is, I'm trying to keep all my units able to move 12" and still fire.

That criteria leads me squarely into the Techmarine, on a bike.

 

Techmarines really suffer in close combat, with no invulnerable save, T4, and IC status. Cool thing is, a Techmarine on a bike can join a biker squad, who hate close combat just as much as he does. He's got the built-in 2+ armor save, and so can soak a krak missile in later turns, after all the bolter mooks are gone.

 

Techmarines also have some very impressive shooting options. A harness will give them both flamer, and plasma, which could compliment almost any unit I put him in. It's an expensive upgrade, though.

Even with just a servo-arm, he adds a little kick to a squad. Should my squad end up in combat, the opponent has to dedicate attacks to the Techmarine, attempting to wound on T5, and then beating my 2+ save. Power weapons or fists are almost wasted on him, since he can only give up 1 wound to combat resolution, where a Captain could give up three to a single powerfist hit.

Now, Techmarines do give up a KP per man. I'm not horribly worried about that part, though. Blood Angels can survive and win KP games with their Priests. I wouldn't be giving up KPs for dedicated transports, at least.

 

So, what do folks feel about Techmarines on bikes as Elite slots in an all-fast-movers army list?

[Jackelope King]

So, what do folks feel about Techmarines on bikes as Elite slots in an all-fast-movers army list?

Biker armies will usually run out of points before we run out of Force Organization Chart slots. Biker Troops are just that good. Before you start spending points on your Tech Marine Bikers, make sure you have at least 3 full squads of Bikers as Troops.

[Wildfire]

While I agree that there's better places to put your points than simply throwing them into techmarines, I personally prefer the MSU approach. I'd rather have 6 Troops and 3 fast attack filled before I even think of elites.

[breng77]

I also agree that you often will run out of points before you need to fill your elite slots. I am also not sold on using Land Raiders in your Heavy slots as you are not putting anything in the land raiders, which makes them expensive gun boats. Predators also cannot move 12" and fire so if you are looking to keep that then they are also out. My bike list uses Dreads in the elite slots, as they can move 6" an still fire all their weapons.

[Jackelope King]

I also agree that you often will run out of points before you need to fill your elite slots. I am also not sold on using Land Raiders in your Heavy slots as you are not putting anything in the land raiders, which makes them expensive gun boats. Predators also cannot move 12" and fire so if you are looking to keep that then they are also out. My bike list uses Dreads in the elite slots, as they can move 6" an still fire all their weapons.

My Hybrid biker list uses Dakka Predators in the Heavy slots and Rifleman Dreadnoughts in the Elites slots to form a heavy firebase and knock some infantry out of their rides on turn 1. Being able to split your Bikers from your firebase geographically while still having the speed and range to support one another gives me the ability to force the enemy into tough choices: does he split up his forces, or does he go after half of my army and ignore the other half? That said, it requires a significant points-investment to have a sufficient firebase to justify a hybrid approach to Bikers. Don't go half-way with it, and don't cut yourself down on either the Biker or Firebase side.

[breng77]

predators are certainly a decent Idea in a hybrid bike list, they just lack the move 12" and fire that he mentioned. In my current bike list I run 3 Rifleman Dreads and 3 Typhoon speeders, for long range fire power, backed up by 5 MSU bike squads.

[Jackelope King]

predators are certainly a decent Idea in a hybrid bike list, they just lack the voe 12" and fire that he mentioned. In my current bike list I run 3 Rifleman Dreads and 3 Typhoon speeders, for long range fire power, backed up by 5 MSU bike squads.

Nod. Not a bad approach. For Bikers, though, you actually get more bang for your buck buying the full squads and then combat-squadding. I run 3 full-sized squads and almost always combat squad, giving me 6 threats, one with 2x Meltaguns and one with 1x Multi-Melta attack bike. That premium you pay for your Sergeant becomes a significant consideration in a list with Bikers as troops.

[breng77]

I can see some merit in that, although You end up with fewer special weapons overall in that approach( my 5 squads have a total of 5 MM ABs, and 10 special weapons, 3 full bike squads end up with 6 special weapons and 3 MM ABs), and one of your squads ends up with lower LD due to the lack of the sergeant. Though I will give the full squad approach a try when I secure more bikes (I currently have 19 with 6 ABs, soon to be 25 with 7 attack bikes.) .

[spartan249]

The big biker squad approach seals a weakness that you get in annihilation: Kill points. For objectives games, you split up and spread out, and for kill point games, you consolidate and give up very few kill points.

 

If victory points were still the standard of the game, then MSUs would reign supreme. However, KPs screw that up.

[Jackelope King]

If victory points were still the standard of the game, then MSUs would reign supreme. However, KPs screw that up.

This is getting off-topic, but I strongly disagree. Threats win games. This includes games with kill points. If I have more threats than you, I have the advantage, even in kill point games. You have more potential targets, but I have more potential actions on a given turn, and more chances to kill your guys.

 

I think more than this, though, belongs in its own thread.

[breng77]

The big biker squad approach seals a weakness that you get in annihilation: Kill points

.

 

Going this route would give me 2 less kill points hardly make or break either way.

[Br0ther Rafen]

Not experienced in Bikers as i haven't used them, but a Techmarine with a Harness can have 2 free powerfist attacks each turn, along with his own attacks, meaning he is pretty good at killing big stuff. With a bike, he can bolster the cc abilities of an average squad of bikers considerably, giving it some killing power. While i haven't used bikers, my Tfire Techmarines have held themselves well against my friends suicide Assault Squads that he was sometimes uses in games for fun, and kills the remaining assault marines over the coarse of games. Of coarse, a proper unit like banshees or something with a PW will kick his ;) any day of he week.

my 2 cents.

[Wildfire]

For Bikers, though, you actually get more bang for your buck buying the full squads and then combat-squadding.

 

Not exactly true. It really depends on how you want to use your bikers. I prefer the MSU approach to maximize special weapons. I also use them in CC, so a powerfist on the sarge is very important.

[Jackelope King]

Not exactly true. It really depends on how you want to use your bikers. I prefer the MSU approach to maximize special weapons. I also use them in CC, so a powerfist on the sarge is very important.

I prefer multiple small units as well, but you can actually get more bikers on the table with full-sized squads combat-squad'd than you can with minimum-sized squads. More special weapons is nice, but the only special weapons Bikers really want for are Meltaguns, and 6 fast melta units is usually plenty of anti-tank saturation (3x double meltaguns +/- Combi Melta Sergeant and 3x squads with Multi-Melta attack bikes).

 

A minimum-sized squad with a Multi-Melta Attack Bike and two Meltaguns is 185 points and provides one fast melta threat. A maximum-sized squad weighs in at 285 points with a multi-melta and 2x meltaguns. For 100 points more, you get 2 fast melta threats instead of 1, and ones that operate comfortably at two different range-bands. This is usually the better buy. (That said, I'm not afraid to buy a lone minimum-sized squad here or there to round out my force.)

[ShinyRhino]

i used to run two huge 8-man squads qith attached attack bikes, but lately I run the three MSU squads. I found the 8-man squads to be self-neutering when I combat squadded them. I ended up with a single attack bike alongside a bunch of bolter mooks, and a small group of special weapons and the sergeant with hardly any expendable wounds. The special weapon squad was more of a threat, having up to three shots with specials (combis on the sergeants), while the ABs were ignored because they were only firing one shot per turn, which would promptly miss.

When I kept the 8-man squads as one huge squad, they were easy bait for pie plates and charges.

 

I also used to run a hybrid bike list supported by tacs in Rhinos and Dreads, but I've veered off into pure 12" mover units of late. Predators are out in that theme, not sure why I mentioned them, lol.

[Wildfire]

Not exactly true. It really depends on how you want to use your bikers. I prefer the MSU approach to maximize special weapons. I also use them in CC, so a powerfist on the sarge is very important.

I prefer multiple small units as well, but you can actually get more bikers on the table with full-sized squads combat-squad'd than you can with minimum-sized squads. More special weapons is nice, but the only special weapons Bikers really want for are Meltaguns, and 6 fast melta units is usually plenty of anti-tank saturation (3x double meltaguns +/- Combi Melta Sergeant and 3x squads with Multi-Melta attack bikes).

 

A minimum-sized squad with a Multi-Melta Attack Bike and two Meltaguns is 185 points and provides one fast melta threat. A maximum-sized squad weighs in at 285 points with a multi-melta and 2x meltaguns. For 100 points more, you get 2 fast melta threats instead of 1, and ones that operate comfortably at two different range-bands. This is usually the better buy. (That said, I'm not afraid to buy a lone minimum-sized squad here or there to round out my force.)

 

I disagree here. If I want a fast melta threat, I take a unit of three attack bikes. Ordinary bikers I'd rather put plasma or flamers on most of the time, unless I intend them to be assaulters. 3 multi-melta attack bikes has better range and is cheaper. Further, I don't consider any unit with only one melta a true threat to vehicles, as there's just too big a chance to miss/fail to pen/shake/fail to get past the save. I have considered using large bike squads and splitting the specials and attack bike into a shooty unit and the sgt w/pfist an assaulty unit. I've yet to try it, though.

 

Also, special weapons do a disproportional amount of the damage bikes do. It all comes down to how you use your bikes.

[breng77]

I'm not sure how well 5 bikers with a sargent (with a fist I guess) will do as an assaulting unit. The issue I always have this this is that anything bikes are likely to beat in combat, they don't need the fist for.

[River Black]

Kind of back on topic....

If you really want a techmarine on a bike then the only configuration that I would consider is a MoTF on a bike with a conversion beamer. The bike gives him relentless so he can constantly move, fire and keep the max possible range for the beamer. I have taken him a few times with so-so results. In one game the master survived and eliminated three times his cost in points. In another he ran off the board before doing anything fantastic. He isnt anything super competitive but what the hell... it is only a game after all.

 

Side Note. The conversion possibilities for a techmarine or MoTF on a bike is great. My MoTF is actually grafted to the bike with no legs and the conversion beamer is mounted on the back fender.

[ShinyRhino]

The only other idea I can think of for the techmarine on Bike is to take three of them, and join them all into one big IC squad. Three Techmarines with harnesses that can all fire their plasma, and flamers, and then smack something with up to six powerfist attacks. Silly, but kinda hilarious.

[River Black]

Three Techmarines with harnesses that can all fire their plasma, and flamers

 

I know the servo harness specifically states that they can fire both, however the space marine bike entry specifically states that only one gun can be fired per rider. Which wins out?

[Br0ther Rafen]

i'd say Harness, but thats a topic for another thread.

Anyway, if you'd like, you can use them to power up your normal bikes and give them some CC Back up.

The MoTF is a popular idea which is effective, and can cause some damage but i don't use Bikers anyway so, yeah.

[breng77]

MY issue with the techmarine on a bike idea is the cost. A techmarine on a Bike with a harness is 110 points, which costs more than 4 bikers. So for 2 of these guys you can get another small bikes squad, for all 3 you can get a full kitted out bikes squad.

[ShinyRhino]

MY issue with the techmarine on a bike idea is the cost. A techmarine on a Bike with a harness is 110 points, which costs more than 4 bikers. So for 2 of these guys you can get another small bikes squad, for all 3 you can get a full kitted out bikes squad.

 

Yeah, it's a ton of points. A neat project for a rainy day, or for 2500 point games where I will run out of FOC slots, but that's about it, sadly.

[breng77]

Yeah, I mean it could be fun, but probably not worth the points, which are something bike armies don't have to spare.